How to Evade Gunfire

reply to post by Asktheanimals



Wow what you actually go about your daily life with a concealed weapon?
What type, here in the UK we can’t carry anything, I got caught with a golf club in my van down the driver’s side door and I got a caution for that!

It not just people I worry about when I’m out with my daughter its dogs running up to her! I would like to carry a hunting knife with me but the risks here are high with random stop searches ect ect.
Call me paranoid but this Norway incident give me reason to be.

Jay

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
I always carry concealed.
I'm shooting back and will empty the clip until one of us stops moving.
Running is not an option for some of us.

Take some cover first at least. I'd prefer it be the bad guy that absorbs the most bullets.

When the shooting starts, he has the element of surprise, but taking some quick cover, and drawing your weapon switches the advantage to you. He is not expecting some well-placed shots coming back at him. The situation will be chaos, and we definitely don't want you hitting anybody unintended.

Duck and cover, draw, aim, and take him down. Preferably, if I were in that situation, I would attempt to move to his backside to ensure a nice broad target, and if I miss, I'll have a chance to get back into cover and leave him still dazed and confused about who is shooting at him.

reply to post by ototheb85


Many American do. Not only is it a right...... many of us feel it is actually a responsibility. Imagine if something like the Norway shooting happened here, and I had the right to carry a gun, I had the ability to carry a gun, and I enjoy carrying a gun, but I just happened to leave it at home that day? I would have to sit helpless and watch dozens of people die, while knowing I could have stopped it. I used to be a little "lazy" about carrying my 1911 .45acp, because it was big and bulky. I decided it made more sense to carry my little .380 100% of the time, instead of carrying my .45acp 50% of the time.

The cliche is......"Better to have your gun and not need it, than need your gun and not have it."

reply to post by getreadyalready


Oh but you skipped a step...
98% of the time you lean you just walked into a gun fight is after someone is already shooting at you...

That's why we teach that as you draw your weapon you turn sideways to your opponent(s) so as to provide the smallest target possible... then utilizing the Rock & Lock technique.. you engage them, firing as soon as you clear the holster...

BTW don't just go watch a few YouTube vid's on how to rock & lock... without real training you might end up shooting yourself while attempting to pull off what is a master level skill set...

reply to post by DaddyBare


Good point. I was thinking more of the office shooting scenario, where I hear gunshots, and see people running, and I have my weapon. I would find cover, sneak out, and look for a clear shot.

In your scenario of someone running up on me shooting, you are absolutely correct. I haven't trained for that, but my instinct would be to turn and crouch to provide the smallest target possible, and draw and return fire to create some cover for me and everyone else.

Still, it is extremely important that the "good guys" don't cause any collateral damage. Well-placed and deliberate shots are crucial in that chaotic scenario. Nothing worse than a good samaritan causing extra injuries and facing charges for it.

Do you teach? I'll be up in your neck of the woods in September!

reply to post by A por uvas


ok - so you draw your weapon - upon hearing gunfire - and stand ready - what do you think the 2nd armed person [ further away than you ] who has exactly the same idea as you will do if he sights you first ?

Have to agree.

Daily carry turns off certain intuition feelings you ordinarily would have if you were less protected.

Originally posted by JDBlack
If you are going to rush a shooter throw something at them. Most people will instinctively raise their arms and duck to avoid the object, and if it is big enough (say a school desk) it will provide concealment while u rush in, offering some surprise

Missed that one the first time. Great advice for an unarmed person. I think throwing desks and chairs and anything else large and heavy while rushing in, preferably with the help of a few others, might be a great strategy.

Of course you might get shot, but hopefully many lives can be saved if you are shot in the process of taking down the suspect, and if others jump in to help you and disarm them.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by A por uvas

 

ok - so you draw your weapon - upon hearing gunfire - and stand ready - what do you think the 2nd armed person [ further away than you ] who has exactly the same idea as you will do if he sights you first ?

Probably try to determine if you are a threat or an ally. If you and he have both drawn your weapons chances are you have both identified the threat.

I came close to drawing last, or at least was preparing to. I was walking my dog last night after midnight. There was an attractive young woman walking on the other side of the main road my dog and I usually turn around at. We were in the shadow of trees while he looked for somewhere to do his busines. While waiting for my dog to do something I noticed a very scruffy looking guy on a bicycle following her about 100' behind. At first I thought he was just going the same way but whenever he started to catch up to her he stopped and let her get some distance. He turned and started going the other way but after a short distance he turned around and started closing on her again. He got close to her again and stopped. At this point I was looking for somewhere to tie up my dog and making sure my gun was accessible. After watching the woman for a few more moments the guy turned his bike around again and rode out of sight.

Yeah, I know they probably knew each other and had a fight but she didn't seem to know he was there and there was no communication between them. She was pretty and alone in the middle of the night and this guy did not look reputable.

Notice too, I did not draw my gun and did not shoot anyone. I thought I saw a potential capital crime and wanted to make sure I could respond if I was right.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by A por uvas

 

ok - so you draw your weapon - upon hearing gunfire - and stand ready - what do you think the 2nd armed person [ further away than you ] who has exactly the same idea as you will do if he sights you first ?

I don't want this to come of as sounding belittling... but I can tell from your question, you've never been under-fire...
it happens in the blink of an eye... measured in seconds, not minutes... that's where training and practice come in... Every year the FBI publishes a report on real world officer involved shooting... years of study and research has gone into that data, studies done and tactics developed...

two of those stat's you might find most interesting is 90% of gun fights happen at ranges measured in feet, not yards... sometimes close enough both parties could reach out and touch each other... my own personal experience confirms that...

the other stat is that despite being that close... 70 to 80 percent of all shoots fired are misses... understandable given the excitement...

now given just those two facts... we are taught as soon as we hear gunfire... we draw ready to fire the instant the barrel clears the holster... the first shot taken from the hip, followed by subsequent shots... usually three shoots are taken before we reach your classic weaver ready stance...

that is the difference between combat pistol craft and target shooters...

reply to post by getreadyalready

Do you teach? I'll be up in your neck of the woods in September!

the answer is, not any more....
but you know your always welcome to come over...
maybe we'll go out in my back yard and squeeze off a few... I just might have a trick or two I can share

Good points but maybe not applicable to a serial shooter type situation. Chances are you will have time to draw and assess the situation unless you are his target of the moment. So also would another armed civilian in the area. You might even have time to coordinate an attack. The Norway shooter was shooting for an hour on the island.

reply to post by DaddyBare


wrong on all counts - please read the post i replied to

reply to post by ignorant_ape


My bad
second line: "D'oh"

Originally posted by ototheb85
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

It not just people I worry about when I’m out with my daughter its dogs running up to her! I would like to carry a hunting knife with me but the risks here are high with random stop searches ect ect.
Call me paranoid but this Norway incident give me reason to be.

Jay

Your under the gun with no gun there. You however have a culture that will allow these:

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1311608307&sr=8-6

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1311608307&sr=8-1

Warning: I dont have a clue about these sellers. I only linked for pics and descriptions.

If you decide to use a walking stick, some leather wraps or a feather etc tone down the perceptions.

reply to post by DaddyBare


may i interject? well, I will anyway

on the whole rock and lock scenario spelles out above.

another, perhaps morew natural and better approach is to do a combo of the following, granted this is if someone within a field of voew is firing upon you before you have drawn:


1. always GET LOW..paramount!! the whole trun sideways still leaves a big target
2. depending on carry position, while drawing, drop one shoulder (weapon side) and do a side roll (tumble type) and fire from a kneeling position
3. OR, while drawing, dive into the prone, at an angle forward, to somewhat the 10 o'clock position. considering forward is target at 12 o'clock
4. OR, if more proficient shooter..slip on ice...drop to ground feet facing opponent (like snow angel, with feet spread) and shoot between feet.
the above is in a sit where no cover is near


but ALWAYS SEEK COVER. standing at the same height, regardless of sideways or straight on is not a good idea..

Having been shot at more times than I can recall I can tell you that the only 2 golden rules have been covered.

1.) Immediately drop and try to bury your genitals 2 feet below the earth.
2.) Grab the closest cover.

Escape and evasion plans are crap if you have no situational awareness. It is usually pretty common sense if your only goal is to part ways from the shooter(s). Find an exit and run in a straight line away from the aggressor(s), placing as much cover between you and him/her as possible in the process.

If you are one of the foolhardy who happen to be concealed carrying and you want to get involved, well, get as close as possible without being noticed and lodge a round somewhere inside the shooter's head.

reply to post by rebeldog



the concept of rock&lock
is first to engage your target quickly enough that you make them take cover...rather than given them time to preform the standard timed controlled fire...

youtu.be...

reply to post by getreadyalready


Yeah, I'd prolly buy myself a bullet for myself if i attempted that, but it's significantly better to buy one fighting than to take one sitting down. Anyway, if one or two others rushed at the same time at least one of us would probably make it to the shooter.