Was Osama Bin Laden was framed? Clearing a Dead Man's name.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


Hi Othersideofthecoin,

it's from wiki

Robin Cook, Foreign Secretary in the UK from 1997–2001, and Leader of the House of Commons and Lord President of the Council from 2001-2003, believed the CIA had provided arms to the Arab Mujahideen, including Osama bin Laden, writing, "Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan."[7]


This is the source, so are you saying this piece from a former UK Leader of the House is rubbish?

www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by yyyyyyyyyy


the biggest problem on the terrorism forum on ATS, people have no understanding of Al’Qa’ida and seek to look for a alternative history of the group that will back up their 9/11 conspiracies. This just fuels ignorance, its infuriating. It just goes to show how narrow your understanding of this group is that you are talking the world of a estranged MP who is not a expert in the history of Al’Qa’ida.

Look at what he has said, at no point does he indicate that Al’Qa’ida is a CIA stooge only that they are the result of a miscalculation of American foreign policy in the 1980’s. He is just wrong to say that the CIA directly funded Al’Qa’ida and armed them at this time. Under operation Cyclone almost all funding went through the ISI and at the time Bin Laden was so wealthy through his family connections he would have no need for the extra funding. Any funding that he did receive would have come from the ISI, possibly with the CIA’s figure prints on it, but he was not directly funded by the CIA. Just about all training went through the ISI as well; however there are some interesting accounts of British SAS training the Mujahedeen in the use of American stinger missile systems. Some estimates claim that up to 100,000 militants were trained under operation cyclone however most of them received their training form the Pakistanis and not the west. During the 1980’s, Bin Laden was for the most part a financer, setting up a series of stop over homes for travailing Mujahedeen and keeping a record of those going to fight the soviets, latterly he is said to have set up a training camp. He was not a “war lord”, he was more of a logistics man, and he was a very small fish in the grand scale of the mighty Afghan war lords. Even if he did get some direct training through operation cyclone he would have been one of literally 100’s of thousands and thus it means nothing. They would never have known what he was to become.

There is nothing in any of the mainstream literature that suggest the CIA set up Al’Qa’ida directly in the 1980’s as part of a future weapon to be used against the American people as a justification for future wars and as a fall guy in a false flag. However it could be accurate to argue that as Cook may have been arguing for, that as a result of a “monumental miscalculation” by the CIA during the 1980’s they inadvertently planted the seeds for the 9/11 attacks by facilitating a victory for the Mujahedeen in the 1980’s against the Soviets and then abandoning the Afghanistan during operation cyclone.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Work of fiction?

What is this work of fiction that you speak of?

You have not answered my questions and giving your bias opinions on the matter are not the facts.

Are you suggesting that FBI translator Sibel Edmonds interview never took place on the Mike Malloy radio show, if so please show evidence that this is the work of fiction?

I asked you a simple question and you avoided it completely. I did not think you could back up your claims but to only give us your assumptions, and you expect everyone to accept your word as truth without any sources.

Are you suggestion that Sibel Edmond is not telling the truth, if so please show credible evidence that this is all work of fiction?

Another question I asked of you, yet you ignore it completely, so I gather you cannot prove your “assumptions” that this is all the work of fiction, furthermore you cannot prove Sibel Edmonds is lying.

I see this myth all the time on ATS, “Bin Laden worked for the CIA up until 2001”. I am getting fed up of it and I have a few weeks of holiday coming up so I think I am going to write a thread debunking that little myth.

If you’re so fed up then prove everyone wrong, so far you haven’t. Bring on your sources; your opinions are not the facts.
BTW, information is only as good as it sources.

reply to post by impressme

Are you suggesting that FBI translator Sibel Edmonds interview never took place on the Mike Malloy radio show, if so please show evidence that this is the work of fiction?

No I am suggesting that the “information” she has divulged in this interview is a work of fiction.

Take this claim for example from your link.

In the interview, Sibel says that the US maintained 'intimate relations' with Bin Laden, and the Taliban, "all the way until that day of September 11.


" These 'intimate relations' included using Bin Laden for 'operations' in Central Asia, including Xinjiang, China. These 'operations' involved using al Qaeda and the Taliban in the same manner "as we did during the Afghan and Soviet conflict," that is, fighting 'enemies' via proxies.

During the 1990’s Bin Laden was involved in the bombing of the USS Cole in 1996 and the 1998 embassy bombings and throughout the 1990’s his targets were American, some would also argue he had some involvement in the 1993 trade canter bombing and fighting in Somalia however at all time America has been the ultimate target as he set out in his 1996 Fatwa. The idea therefore that the Al’Qa’ida network was in fact a proxy army for America to attack other states is unfounded as the only state they attacked was the USA. Also the Taliban and Al’Qa’ida never existed during the conflict with the Soviets.


Your source is either lying or misinformed by suggesting that until 2001 the Al’Qa’ida network and the Taliban were proxy militia’s for America to use to attack other states. The only target Al’Qa’ida went for during the 1990’s was American and the Taliban never operated outside of Afghanistan so your sources claim is just wrong. There is no evidence other than her claims to give credibility to the suggestion that the Taliban and Al’Qa’ida were in reality a proxy army run by America to conduct operations in central Asia. In other words, her claim is made up it is fiction, a basic knowledge of history is all the evidence one needs to recognise the fallacy in this claim.


People on ATS really need to learn how to cast a critical eye over their sources before they declear they have found the smoking gun. This woman is clearly just feeding your ignorance in accepting this you can deny ignorance and that is what we are here for. There is no shame in admitting you now realise she may have been misinformed.

PS: I do intend to publish a full thread in the coming weeks proving that Bin Laden was never a CIA asset, I will happily send you a U2U with a link to it when it is complete.

Who said he's dead

Bin-Laden was born by the CIA, created Al-CIAda and was tracked down and killed by the CIA and apart for jesus he was the only man i knew who could not only change the laws of propabilities on 9/11 but was also able to change the laws of physics.

Jesus rose from the dead so i'm not counting bin-laden out for at least another 2000 years.

Sounds stupid well so does the offical story for 9/11 so you will have to forgive me.

reply to post by Master_007


Born by the CIA? That would have been news to his father, and still would be news to his mother, wife, child, and siblings.

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin

Are you suggesting that FBI translator Sibel Edmonds interview never took place on the Mike Malloy radio show, if so please show evidence that this is the work of fiction?
Bin Laden was never a CIA asset
No I am suggesting that the “information” she has divulged in this interview is a work of fiction.

So you do agree the interview was real?

During the 1990’s Bin Laden was involved in the bombing of the USS Cole in 1996

I have never seen any evidence that supports your allegation and if there were you would have posted it, this is your “opinion” nothing more.

some would also argue he had some involvement in the 1993 trade canter bombing and fighting in Somalia however at all time America has been the ultimate target as he set out in his 1996 Fatwa.

Some would argue? You mean their “opinions” don’t you? Again no credible evidence to support this bogus claim. We are looking for credible sources with credible facts; you have not given us anything but “your” opinion nothing more.

The idea therefore that the Al’Qa’ida network was in fact a proxy army for America to attack other states is unfounded as the only state they attacked was the USA. Also the Taliban and Al’Qa’ida never existed during the conflict with the Soviets.

Wrong, do some real research and try to stay away from mainstream News media lies and Gov.org website since it was been proven repeatedly to be the work of war propaganda and many proven lies.

Conveniently most media chooses to forget the fact that Al Qaeda to the extent it ever existed, was a creation in the 1980's of the CIA, who recruited and trained radical muslims from across the Islamic world to wage war against Russian troops in Afghanistan as part of a strategy developed by Reagan's CIA head Bill Casey and others to create a "new Vietnam" for the Soviet Union which would lead to a humiliating defeat for the Red Army and the ultimate collapse of the Soviet Union.
Now US NSC head Jones admits there is essentially no Al Qaeda anymore in Afghanistan. Perhaps it is time for a more honest debate from our political leaders about the true purpose of sending more young to die protecting the opium harvests of Afghanistan.
F. William Engdahl is author of Full Spectrum Dominance: Totalitarian Democracy in the New World Order. He may be reached via his website at www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net...

www.rense.com...

Your source is either lying or misinformed

If so you haven’t proved it, what is it they are they lying about, or are what evidenc do you have they are misinformed? I will kindly remind you your opinions are not the facts here. I challenge you to prove me wrong, I have plenty of time on my hands to rebut your opinions until you can bring some credible sources to this board.

The only target Al’Qa’ida went for during the 1990’s was American and the Taliban never operated outside of Afghanistan so your sources claim is just wrong. There is no evidence other than her claims to give credibility to the suggestion that the Taliban and Al’Qa’ida were in reality a proxy army run by America to conduct operations in central Asia. In other words, her claim is made up it is fiction, a basic knowledge of history is all the evidence one needs to recognise the fallacy in this claim.

Wrong again.
Not only is Sibel Edmonds very credible:

Edmonds put her concerns about the FBI's language department in writing to her immediate superiors and to a top official at the FBI. For months, she said she received no response. Then, she turned for help to the Justice Department's inspector general and to Sen. Charles Grassley, whose committee, the Judiciary Committee, has direct oversight of the FBI.

“She's credible,” says Grassley. “And the reason I feel she's very credible is because people within the FBI have corroborated a lot of her story.”
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Does the Sibel Edmonds case fall into any pattern of behavior, pattern of conduct, on the part of the FBI?

“The usual pattern,” says Grassley. “Let me tell you, first of all, the embarrassing information comes out, the FBI reaction is to sweep it under the rug, and then eventually they shoot the messenger.”

Special agent John Roberts, recently retired as a chief of the FBI's Internal Affairs Department, agrees. And while he is not permitted to discuss the Edmonds case, for the last 10 years, he has been investigating misconduct by FBI employees. He says he is outraged by how little is ever done about it.

“I don't know of another person in the FBI who has done the internal investigations that I have and has seen what I have, and that knows what has occurred and what has been glossed over and what has, frankly, just disappeared, just vaporized, and no one disciplined for it,” says Roberts.

Despite a pledge from FBI Director Robert Mueller to overhaul the culture of the FBI in light of 9/11, and encourage bureau employees to come forward to report wrongdoing, Roberts says that in the rare instances when employees are disciplined, it's usually low-level employees like Edmonds who get punished and not their bosses.

“I think the double standard of discipline will continue no matter who comes in, no matter who tries to change,” says Roberts. “You, you have a certain, certain group that, that will continue to protect itself. That's just how it is.”

Has he found cases since Sept. 11 where people were involved in misconduct and were not, let alone reprimanded, but were even promoted? Roberts says yes.

"That's astonishing," Bradley told Roberts. "You would think that after 9/11, that's a big slap in the face. 'This is a wake-up call here.'"

"Depends on who you are," says Roberts. "If you're in the senior executive level, it may not hurt you. You will be promoted."
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Last month, the FBI took the highly unusual step of retroactively classifying information it gave to Congress two years ago about the Sibel Edmonds case.

As for the FBI's language division, the bureau says it has dramatically beefed up its translation capabilities.

newsmine.org.../forewarned/translator-sibel-edmonds/senator-Grassley-says-sibel-edmonds-is-credible.txt

Newly Released FBI Documents Support Explosive Claims by Former FBI Translator Sibel Edmonds

Boiling Frogs - 17 March 2010
Recently released FBI documents prove the existence of highly sensitive National Security and criminal investigations of “Turkish Activities” in Chicago prior to September 11, 2001. These documents add further support to many of the allegations that former FBI translator Sibel Edmonds has claimed, in public and in Congress, since 2002. The documents were released under a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request into an organization called the Turkish American Cultural Alliance (TACA), an organization repeatedly named by Ms. Edmonds as being complicit in the crimes that she became aware of when she was a translator at the FBI.
The documents released under FOIA are almost completely redacted, but they do support many of Edmonds’ claims, including:
There were a number of very serious FBI investigations into “Turkish activity in Chicago” involving a number of targets, including TACA
These investigations were related to “National Security” among other things.
These investigations were regarded as so sensitive that no files were to be uploaded to FBI’s computer system.
Congressional corruption was involved.
The FBI repeatedly conducted actual “physical surveillance” against Turkish and American targets.
Some of these investigations were shut down in 2001.

www.conspiracyarchive.com...

Who Is Sibel Edmonds? With Introduction By 9/11 Family Member Lorie Van Auken

visibility911.com...

And you want everyone to believe Sibel Edmonds statements are a work of fiction. You have displayed that you are either ignorant or do not want to know the truth about Sibel Edmond because it does not support the OS fairytales, Time to pull your head out of the sand.

People on ATS really need to learn how to cast a critical eye over their sources before they declear they have found the smoking gun.

Such as your “opinions” and your lack of any sources to your claims. People want to see evidence, proof to your allegation when one is debating the facts and frankly you have produce neither.

This woman is clearly just feeding your ignorance in accepting this you can deny ignorance and that is what we are here for.

The fact is people who are researchers in truth do not bury their heads in the sand as you have just demonstrated yourself in this thread.

There is no shame in admitting you now realise she may have been misinformed.

Wrong again, the fact is Sibel Edmond has been proven to be “very credible” by powerful people in our own government.

PS: I do intend to publish a full thread in the coming weeks proving that Bin Laden was never a CIA asset, I will happily send you a U2U with a link to it when it is complete.

Bin Laden was never a CIA asset?
The government (CIA) has released documents under FOIA “that he was an asset,” so I am looking forward in proving your opinions, and assumptions are sadly wrong with credible sources.