Illusion, Revolution and New Government Model - True Democratic Online Voting System

Illusion and Revolution

I have been on this board for sometime now doing a lot of reading. Much of what I've read I already knew, but it's the people's opinions I'm most interested in. Today I feel like ranting especially after reading about Murdoch's World of News scandal and the mysterious death of two witnesses. This just made me angry. The way I see it, there is a massive revolution rising across the world and it's not going to be pretty because it's not organized. People quite literally, mainly out of necessity, are waking up in a heterogeneous pattern to the truths they were blind to. All the domino pieces are falling into place starting mainly with the economic collapse caused by the rich along with governments run by the rich through extreme lobbying. The rich are to blame, because in a system that supports extreme wealth you cannot have democracy. One negates the other because the truth is you can buy votes directly and indirectly through propaganda (via the media). How rich does one need to be? What is the limit? We need caps on individual and corporate wealth, just like the salary caps in NHL hockey. We need to increase the public responsibility of large and rich corporations and individuals. The rich must disperse their wealth in the public interest by hiring more employees, paying them better or paying more taxes if they don't meet a certain hiring ratio. It's a fact, many rich have and continue to mislead people in propaganda campaigns. They quite literally brain wash people into an illusion, and the funny thing is most people subscribe these illusions easily and live on the superficial. They avoid anything of substance. They adhere to the illusion and want to keep the illusion alive even though reality is soo different. Denial. If you open your eyes wide open, you'll see everything is a lie, either small or grandiose. For example, the Catholic church was formed to subvert a large and growing rebellious religious group. Constantine made Christianity legal and just happened to declared himself the leader of the this new church. Why? It wasn't because of a holy vision. It was for political reasons - money and power. To control the people and maintain his power and the power of his friends. Then the church for hundreds of years started consuming other popular religions with large numbers of followers. It's no coincidence that Jesus and Mithras (popular with large number of Roman soldiers) have too much in common. Constantine and others in the church changed historical texts, banded and burned others to create the vision they wanted to control the most number of people. It isn't coincidence that Christmas is on the 25th of December, just like the pagan (Roman) Winter Solstice. This shows you that people who want to rule instill illusions and perpetuate them. It is no coincidence that the media is controlled by the very rich that have close ties to political and financial motives. Many of the rich, if not most (especially old money), rised to power by following no rules, through deceit, war, treachery and and horrible deeds, and then began imposing rules to subjugate anyone else from becoming rich and compete with them. Many of our laws and bylaws are in place to benefit someone rich who lobbied for it (FDA war against natural supplements).

New Government Model - True Democratic Online Voting System

I think it's time we remove the middle man...the politician. Why? Because the human element has been proved time and again to be corruptible. Replace politicians with direct citizen voting. Our technology has reached a level that this is possible to do effectively. So why hasn't it been done yet? All that's needed is a central website listing issues or items posted by citizens by location, scope, category, reason, the expected budget (new or selectable from a list of standard budgeted items) and possibly 3 sourced suppliers/vendors if needed. This website would also have a listed tally of the total working budget of government, where it's going and what budget is available so that any citizen posting items can know there is a limit to certain motions due to cost. There could also be a financial moderator of submitted items in order to append actual cost figures to help the average citizen as long as it doesn't take control away from the public voters. Part of posting the item is adding voting options, such as yes or no; for example to vote for or against a motion to fix a pothole, restructure the waterfront, build a new highway or school or increase social spending. Each posted item will have an expiration or due date to be voted on which would be in set blocks based on the scope of the item. The larger the scope (how many people it affects - local, community, municipal, regional, state, national), the longer the item is listed before voting. During the time between submission and voting, a homepage and discussion board is linked to the item so that people can debate it openly and on record as their identity would be visible for everyone to see (level the lobbying playing field). No more secrets. Everyone can vote on any posted issue, but people closer to the location linked to the item have more voting value, like 1 vote divided by distance from location = voting value of the individual per submitted item. Once the vote is complete and action is required, a central government administrator coordinates government staff to fulfill the required actions. In case of emergency, like the internet going down, the central administrator will assume leadership over government with his top priority to get the Internet backup and running and secondary priorities to deal with government affairs as they arise. The position of top central Administrator, and even of sub regional administrators, would be assigned based on voting through this new system. Who is assigned is voted on by the public. In a sense they'd be elected civil servants, like politicians but not politicians. Their job is to head the call of the public through the voted on actions issued by the this online voting system.

That's my proposal for future government. We don't need politicians anymore. They were needed in the past as representatives for regions due to communication limitations - not everyone could go to capital city and debate issues. This is why elected officials were created, because of communication limitations. We have the Internet now which is everywhere and it's only getting faster and better.

Hows this plays out will be vital in the coming years. The internet is playing a very big role in communication and there are a lot of powerful forces who have become comfortable in manipulating and diverting communication for their own ends, the internet is presenting new challenges to this hegemony.

The biggest challenge and most important key is wither it is based on an open source or proprietary solution. The open source does generally follow the proprietary solutions by about 5-7 years on average, but does vary depending on the application. The strength of proprietary solutions is in the resources for development and secrecy in coding structure. This does lead to a big weakness with those that have access to the code can easily subvert it, there are many cases of electoral fraud supporting this.

With an open source solution the strength is is the code with a lot of peer review being applied. On the technical level, it is not just the application software but also the operating system and hardware that does need review to ensure integrity.

Another big issue is with identifying the electoral base. With so many fake and fraudulent identities on the internet there are a lot of security issues and challenges with making certain that each person only has one vote. The social media sites are awash with false identities, the banking system does better in managing this but is still subject to identity fraud.

Next is getting the bull by the horns and opening up the public books. Even if you work in government this can be a very difficult and challenging processes as many cultural norms protect financial secrecy. When corruption is just a part of daily practices resistance and lies are common. It will take time and understanding to work through these issues.

Finally, it is going to take a lot of resources to establish and manage. I do not see the United Nations is yet ready to take on these issues for global coverage of public governance. I do expect there would be some openness to the concept and others wanting to subvert this power. The best I can recommend is to just get started on it, built it up from a local level and good luck. I am expecting similar systems starting to come out, sharing ideas and working on different parts of the problem. In the end it will be up to the public if they are going to accept such a solution.

You have got a lot of good ideas there and with our system of government so hopelessly messed up a change is coming. The more we talk about and work towards something better, the better the chance that the system will be working for us instead of us working for the system.

reply to post by CantSay


S&F Great thread. I like the way you think. I was thinking something similar myself. In the US we all are issued social security numbers. Every SS number gets a vote. Everything....do you want this synthetic chemical in your food, do you want this man to stay in jail...everything would get a vote. That way the people would decide.

I agree it is high time to get rid of the middlemen.
There is only enough room and resources to go around for us.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by CantSay

 

S&F Great thread. I like the way you think. I was thinking something similar myself. In the US we all are issued social security numbers. Every SS number gets a vote. Everything....do you want this synthetic chemical in your food, do you want this man to stay in jail...everything would get a vote. That way the people would decide.

I agree it is high time to get rid of the middlemen.
There is only enough room and resources to go around for us.

Completely and I like the idea of whoever has an SS number gets vote.

Does anyone else have anything to add to this idea of getting rid of the middleman (politicians) by replacing them with an online direct to the public voting system?

Originally posted by kwakakev
Hows this plays out will be vital in the coming years. The internet is playing a very big role in communication and there are a lot of powerful forces who have become comfortable in manipulating and diverting communication for their own ends, the internet is presenting new challenges to this hegemony.

The biggest challenge and most important key is wither it is based on an open source or proprietary solution. The open source does generally follow the proprietary solutions by about 5-7 years on average, but does vary depending on the application. The strength of proprietary solutions is in the resources for development and secrecy in coding structure. This does lead to a big weakness with those that have access to the code can easily subvert it, there are many cases of electoral fraud supporting this.

With an open source solution the strength is is the code with a lot of peer review being applied. On the technical level, it is not just the application software but also the operating system and hardware that does need review to ensure integrity.

Another big issue is with identifying the electoral base. With so many fake and fraudulent identities on the internet there are a lot of security issues and challenges with making certain that each person only has one vote. The social media sites are awash with false identities, the banking system does better in managing this but is still subject to identity fraud.

Next is getting the bull by the horns and opening up the public books. Even if you work in government this can be a very difficult and challenging processes as many cultural norms protect financial secrecy. When corruption is just a part of daily practices resistance and lies are common. It will take time and understanding to work through these issues.

Finally, it is going to take a lot of resources to establish and manage. I do not see the United Nations is yet ready to take on these issues for global coverage of public governance. I do expect there would be some openness to the concept and others wanting to subvert this power. The best I can recommend is to just get started on it, built it up from a local level and good luck. I am expecting similar systems starting to come out, sharing ideas and working on different parts of the problem. In the end it will be up to the public if they are going to accept such a solution.

You have got a lot of good ideas there and with our system of government so hopelessly messed up a change is coming. The more we talk about and work towards something better, the better the chance that the system will be working for us instead of us working for the system.

That is a problem. Those in power will not like this idea as it diverts their current means of manipulating policy like through direct lobbying through a single or limited number of politicians (including the corrupt kind). I believe all humans are corruptible so this element has to be removed from government. By removing the politicians and having the mass public vote on every issue on an automatic, transparent and well structured online voting system it would reduce corruption as lobbyists would have to lobby the mass public in very expensive ads and even then, due to the transparent nature of such a system, other people can see past the bull and market against corrupt or ill lobbying ads.

I believe that as long as it follows an open protocol standard, like TCP/HTTP/HTML, that such a website can run for years without a massive overhaul. The system would have to be client-server based with all logic and primary functionality running at the server. I also believe that an open software solution is best with peer-review from several independent, non-related and non-profit institutions and the public at large. It should be built that the coding cannot be hacked or manipulated. I strongly believe simple is best for security and usability.

To ensure one person cannot vote more than once per item, each citizen, with social security number, would have to be physically mailed a GUID/UUID with custom password of their choice to log into the online system. They have to protect both as well as they protect their social security number and passports. Also, password changes will have to be mailed (avoid email) or displayed over HTTPS. Mailed is best. Account suspension will have to be phoned, or online over HTTPS, in using their GUID/UUID + password (existing or previous old one) + social security number to suspend their account in case of suspicion of identity theft.

No doubt there are challenges in implementing such as system and they have nothing to do with the programming of it. People reluctant to release power, corruption in government and simple but sticky and slow red tape are the real problem. Perhaps we should challenge Google or Facebook to build this system. Imaging that, "Google Government". They have the money and resources to challenge pretty much anyone. Personally I'd love to work with them and develop such a solution.

reply to post by CantSay


As for the core framework I am impressed by the Bitcoin system. This is an open source solution designed for financial transactions and cuts the banks out of the loop. All communications are encrypted and has a high level of redundancy in the system. It is still going through some growing pains with its full implementation, but the core of the system has withstood various assaults.

I do have some concern with Google taking full ownership as this will then become a proprietary system, but there resources and experience would be valuable as consultants. Facebook does have some good tools with social communication and networking, and is gradually improving its identity policy, but again it is a proprietary system but good source for consultants.

Not everyone is computer literate and passwords, ID's and other codes can get messy. The social security number is a great start along with other standard information, name, age, address, but these can be easily frauded. Biometrics, chips in ID cards and many other possible solutions are available. Different nations also have different resources and procedures when it comes to voting, so some type of 'plug n play' identification system will be good.

Not everyone is interested or knowledgeable in every issue, so voting should be optional. Kiosks can be setup in government offices or libraries so people without computers and walk in, cast there vote on what they care about and get on with the rest of the day. The system does need a very clean and easy to manage interface as it can get easy to get lost in the information and some people do not have the time or capability to invest hours in learning how it works and how to find their issues of interest. Voting over mobile phones could also be an option as they are now internet enabled.

This is a very big and complex political, technical, design and social issue. Not impossible, but something needs to be done to improve the cohesive operation of society before it falls apart.

Originally posted by kwakakev
reply to post by CantSay

 

As for the core framework I am impressed by the Bitcoin system. This is an open source solution designed for financial transactions and cuts the banks out of the loop. All communications are encrypted and has a high level of redundancy in the system. It is still going through some growing pains with its full implementation, but the core of the system has withstood various assaults.

I do have some concern with Google taking full ownership as this will then become a proprietary system, but there resources and experience would be valuable as consultants. Facebook does have some good tools with social communication and networking, and is gradually improving its identity policy, but again it is a proprietary system but good source for consultants.

Not everyone is computer literate and passwords, ID's and other codes can get messy. The social security number is a great start along with other standard information, name, age, address, but these can be easily frauded. Biometrics, chips in ID cards and many other possible solutions are available. Different nations also have different resources and procedures when it comes to voting, so some type of 'plug n play' identification system will be good.

Not everyone is interested or knowledgeable in every issue, so voting should be optional. Kiosks can be setup in government offices or libraries so people without computers and walk in, cast there vote on what they care about and get on with the rest of the day. The system does need a very clean and easy to manage interface as it can get easy to get lost in the information and some people do not have the time or capability to invest hours in learning how it works and how to find their issues of interest. Voting over mobile phones could also be an option as they are now internet enabled.

This is a very big and complex political, technical, design and social issue. Not impossible, but something needs to be done to improve the cohesive operation of society before it falls apart.

Thanks for sharing the Bitcoin system info. I was not aware such a system existed. It's something I thought about somewhat extensively in the past of a decentralized P2P banking system. Very, very impressed!

I agree on ease of use and security of the system, but in order for such a system to start some people will just have to learn how to use it and others will have to become less fearful of computers and their perceived complexity.

Optional voting I think is a given though you're right it should be explicitly stated. It would be your right to participate as it is right now in the current voting system.

You seem very knowledgeable about the large picture on such a system. It's people like you and me that will have to think this through and start the discussion, debate and ball rolling.

reply to post by CantSay


Another system that I have come across, (but lost the link ) was where people can elect or be their own representative in the management of governance. The individual can change the preferences at any time and let someone they like use their vote or decide on their own votes. An executive branch of government still remains due to the time, dead locks and sensitive issues that a distributed representation can cause. Yet the congressional branch is really opened up to the people.

As for how to get this started, the formation of a panel that is independent from any one organisation but can draw on the resources for many organisations and individuals is a good way. Some funding would help, but more importantly is the community getting involved on the project. I have not done a lot of research to see what voting and governance programs and systems are already out there, but it is an important first step. With the available market and capabilities identified it will provide a good starting point and save a lot of development resources. This will also present networking opportunities which can help with leap frogging development.

reply to post by CantSay

The revolution is not so much about kalashnikovs and passionate rhetoric... A revolution should be seen as a new stage of development, primarily a new way of thinking and innovation in a system of social relations and governance. If it fails to do that then it is merely yet another ‘palace coup’ bringing grist to someone else's mill.

A new idea of a self-balancing government by, of and for the people, comprising several independent parties with a movable centre of joint decisions, would put an end to this discord and consolidate society. It would also open a new, evolutionary way of development without social turmoil and without political and economic cataclysms.

True Democracy and Liberty is here: [gratuitous link removed]