Without the Shedding of Blood there can be no Remission of Sin

reply to post by jmdewey60


Do you believe in your own ideas and beliefs? If so, why do you believe in your own ideas, but not the ideas of others, and should others believe in what you believe? Or, is it every man for himself? I don't get this. If this god is real, why doesn't he bring all believers together and unite them. A house divided against itself can not stand.

Originally posted by Hydroman
reply to post by jmdewey60

 

Do you believe in your own ideas and beliefs? If so, why do you believe in your own ideas, but not the ideas of others, and should others believe in what you believe? Or, is it every man for himself? I don't get this. If this god is real, why doesn't he bring all believers together and unite them. A house divided against itself can not stand.

I don't believe in myself as such.
I believe that there is a revelation which comes from God, but I never trust that I understand it perfectly.
Read the first verses of Revelation.
John had these visions but did not have confidence in his understanding of those visions, and had to have angels come to tell him what was right about what he though about them.
We have this little microcosm right here and we are brought together in this virtual forum.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
]I don't believe in myself as such.
I believe that there is a revelation which comes from God, but I never trust that I understand it perfectly.

So what's the point in the revelation? And, how do you know it comes from a god and not your own mind as many "revelations" from believers can contradict each other?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
John had these visions but did not have confidence in his understanding of those visions, and had to have angels come to tell him what was right about what he though about them.

Why doesn't this omniscient god give the revelation in a way that John CAN understand it? Why doesn't he give you the revelation in a way that you CAN understand it? Does it really have to be that difficult?

reply to post by Hydroman
We currently live in a milieu where there is both good and bad.
One must develop the ability to differentiate between the two.
Can you think of a different reason why we live in this world?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Can you think of a different reason why we live in this world?

1. Chance.
2. The right conditions were met for it to happen.
3. A god did it.
4. Santa Claus did it.
5. Something else no one has ever thought of did it.

Originally posted by Hydroman

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Can you think of a different reason why we live in this world?

1. Chance.
2. The right conditions were met for it to happen.
3. A god did it.
4. Santa Claus did it.
5. Something else no one has ever thought of did it.

I mean as in a purpose.
Not so much what mechanism created the wold, as much as why whatever would, then put us in it.
My explanation is that originally we were placed in the world to be beings who could fully appreciate how nice of a world it was.
Now we seem to be using that ability to notice how not so nice it is. We have to find some good within all that.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
I mean as in a purpose.
Not so much what mechanism created the wold, as much as why whatever would, then put us in it.
My explanation is that originally we were placed in the world to be beings who could fully appreciate how nice of a world it was.
Now we seem to be using that ability to notice how not so nice it is. We have to find some good within all that.

But if it is chance that brought us here, then we create our own purpose. We don't need a purpose from some other being. We have life, let's live it and enjoy it the best we can.

reply to post by kallisti36


Thank you for your contribution. I grasp the concept of expiation and agree it is much more in line with the life and teachings of Christ than propitiation.

reply to post by Hydroman


I don't believe in luck, chance, or coincidence. Natural selection is a myth. That is why evolutionists keep having to push back the beginnings of life with their bogus carbon dating. Systems don't tend to become more complex. Not according to the second law of thermodynamics.

You say yourself, lets "make the best of life." That implies a moral imperative. How did natural selection and survival of the fittest come up with that? How does that help insure the survival of the individual?

reply to post by Hydroman


I'm not claiming that it is the root of atheism; that would be the spiritual condition of doubt. However, many atheists also object to Judeo-Christian morality and theology. I have seen atheists decry sola fide thinking it is a universal Christian dogma "they think they don't have to even be good people, that everything is payed for". It is the same for satisfaction atonement which is a pagan form of atonement and neither Jewish or Christian, but came into western Christianity via the Latin Dark Ages.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising

I don't believe in luck, chance, or coincidence. Natural selection is a myth. That is why evolutionists keep having to push back the beginnings of life with their bogus carbon dating. Systems don't tend to become more complex. Not according to the second law of thermodynamics.

You say yourself, lets "make the best of life." That implies a moral imperative. How did natural selection and survival of the fittest come up with that? How does that help insure the survival of the individual?

Because if I make the worst of life, my life will more than likely be cut short. The will to live and survive is what keeps me going.

You say that carbon dating is bogus. What about radiometric dating?

How do you know there isn't some other law not yet conceived of that will account for systems becoming more complex?

reply to post by Hydroman


You already said its a random system governed by improving chances for survival alone, so good, bad, best, worst, what's the difference? You can't claim making the best of life increases your chances of survival. What does "making the best" mean, anyway? How do we even have concepts of best and worst, good and bad to begin with? Only being the most suited for survival, being selected for, matters in your system.

Its all based on rate of decay.

How do you know they won't discover a new law that proves God exists?

Originally posted by Icarus Rising

What does "making the best" mean, anyway? How do we even have concepts of best and worst, good and bad to begin with? Only being the most suited for survival, being selected for, matters in your system.

By trying to live healthy, by being kind to others, loving my family and friends, these things are making the best of life. Doing the opposite will possibly shorten life. "Good" and "bad" are labels we use to explain the value of things. They may be different for different people. I might think that masturbation is good. Others may think it is a bad thing for example. As far as natural selection and evolution, to be honest I'm not well versed enough in those subjects to debate it fairly with you.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
How do you know they won't discover a new law that proves God exists?

I don't know that and it is possible.