Undocumented students’ rocky road toward a college degree

An interesting story about one undocumented students attempts to earn a college degree. While some may say it is wrong, and fiscally irresponsible to pay or help pay for these students tuition, one can also argue that our society as a whole benefits from an educated populace.

If someone lives in the US and is willing to work hard, should they not be given a chance to make themselves more self-sufficient in the long run, or should those opportunities be reserved for those who have followed all the rules.

ETA: the easy response from ATSers is the anti-immigrant stance. And while that is tempting, my point of posting the article is that it highlights many differing sides and opinions, and points out some possible flaws in the system that may need to be addressed. I challenge you to actually READ the article and give it some thought instead of merely posting your thoughts based on your perception of the headline.

For most 23-year-olds at UNCA, the recently concluded spring semester was a rite of passage, signaling the end of their college years and a big transition into the working world. But for sophomore Loida Ginocchio-Silva, it was just one more semester in a college career that stretches endlessly before her — assuming she could somehow manage to keep it going. Born in Lima, Peru, she came to the U.S. with her family at age 13, speaking not a word of English. But she worked hard and, encouraged by some high-school teachers, took courses at Alamance Community College before transferring to UNCA in the fall of 2010.

As an undocumented student, however, Ginocchio-Silva isn’t eligible for financial aid, and despite having lived in North Carolina for a decade, she’s charged out-of-state tuition. This spring, she was enrolled in one class, for which she says she paid about $2,000. Ginocchio-Silva’s undocumented status also prevents her from finding stable employment. So she works odd jobs — dishwashing, baby-sitting — anything to help her cobble together her tuition payments. But that hasn’t cowed her spirit. “My intention is not to make anyone feel sad for me. I’m not afraid, and I’m not ashamed of being undocumented,” she explains. “That’s just a label that’s been imposed on me: I’m a human being, and that’s not who I am.”

Meanwhile, on Jan. 27, Rep. George Cleveland introduced HB 11, titled “No Postsecondary Education/Illegal Aliens,” which would have barred undocumented immigrants from attending North Carolina’s public universities and community colleges at all. Concerned about the bill, a member of the NC DREAM Team, a statewide student group promoting immigrant rights, sent the Onslow County Republican an email stating, “It is saddening that one of our state’s representatives would go out of their way to deny a segment of our state’s population the right to educate and better themselves.”

According to the group’s website, Cleveland responded: “I find it revolting that an American thinks that we should financially support people that cannot legally work in this country through taxpayer-subsidized education. If you feel so strongly about this issue, find an illegal and pay for their education at a private university.” Cleveland did not respond to requests for comment; the bill died in committee, but it could conceivably be revived as an amendment to another bill.

Ginocchio-Silva came to the U.S. with her mother and brother on April 21, 2001. Her father had applied for a religious-worker visa and planned to join the family later. But they made some mistakes in the application process that they were unable to correct later; and when the family’s tourist visa expired, they stayed on.

www.mountainx.com...

reply to post by incrediblelousminds

or should those opportunities be reserved for those who have followed all the rules.

exactly

also - i have a question - how is the father in the US ?

How many of our citizens from out of state are allowed in state tuition? Where are their breaks?

Originally posted by Night Star
How many of our citizens from out of state are allowed in state tuition? Where are their breaks?

Would it be necessary to end all differences in in state and out of state tuition if there was some sort of specific category formed for young students who have been here their whole life, but who came here under illegal circumstances possibly out of their control?

Do we not all benefit from them being more educated?

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

or should those opportunities be reserved for those who have followed all the rules.

exactly

also - i have a question - how is the father in the US ?

edit on 7-7-2011 by ignorant_ape because: (no reason given)

Good question, based on the information n the article, it appears he came to the us under less-than-legal circumstances.

Should the children be punished for that

reply to post by incrediblelousminds



Show me your papers. Illegal aliens is what I'm guessing you are talking about. Enter legally as most people have and then you are fine to do as you please. If their parents can not and refuse to follow the United States laws as every other country, then their child suffers.

Blame the parents, not our Laws..
Then tell me what good is any law if they do not follow the first laws to get here?

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

Originally posted by Night Star
How many of our citizens from out of state are allowed in state tuition? Where are their breaks?

Would it be necessary to end all differences in in state and out of state tuition if there was some sort of specific category formed for young students who have been here their whole life, but who came here under illegal circumstances possibly out of their control?

Do we not all benefit from them being more educated?

With millions of un-employed citizens, do we really need more competition? Should we reward the parents who had no respect for our laws by giving 'their' kids a break? I'm sure my brother would have loved the help to put his two daughters through college. Unfortunately, it became too expensive for him.

They are not "undocumented students."

They are ILLEGAL ALIENS breaking the rule of law by their very physical presence and they need to be deported, not educated.

If you believe in rule of the law, refuse to use the word "undocumented," it is a cop-out and designed to get people thinking the law is not important.

Originally posted by Night Star


With millions of un-employed citizens, do we really need more competition?

Good question. Conversely, one might also ask, with millions unemployed, do we need yet another person unemployed and uneducated?

Should we reward the parents who had no respect for our laws by giving 'their' kids a break?

Again, a fair point. But these are actual people already here. Why punish the children for the actions of the parents?

I'm sure my brother would have loved the help to put his two daughters through college. Unfortunately, it became too expensive for him.

Indeed, college is expensive, and in many ways superfluous. But its too bad if ANYone is unable to afford it. Education should be free to all, perhaps.

Originally posted by silent thunder
They are not "undocumented students."

They are ILLEGAL ALIENS breaking the rule of law by their very physical presence and they need to be deported, not educated.

If you believe in rule of the law, refuse to use the word "undocumented," it is a cop-out and designed to get people thinking the law is not important.

Noted. Thanks for your input on that one word in the headline.

I thought the story was interesting because it shows several sides of this issue, and begs numerous, sometimes contradictory questions. Which of the points made in the article did you find the most intriguing?

It has cost us billions in free education for these kids from grade 1 to 12. Now they want a break on a college education when our own kids arn't getting a break? Sorry that isn't fair or right.

There are too many hand outs to illegals which only encourages more. Millions of citizens are displaced in the workforce because of illegals. Many States are coming down hard on them and thinking of the citizens first as it should be.

Originally posted by Night Star
It has cost us billions in free education for these kids from grade 1 to 12.

Surely you are exaggerating in your attempt to accent your point. Two kids did not cost the government billions of dollars. In addition, education is an investment.

There are too many hand outs to illegals which only encourages more

Yes, It is worth considering that any program giving assistance illegals may only encourage more to come.

Millions of citizens are displaced in the workforce because of illegals.

I think you are drifting a bit, now. IIlegals dont displace citizens in the work force. The market does.

Many States are coming down hard on them and thinking of the citizens first as it should be.

I tend to think such dichotomies dont actually serve anyone other than those PTB. Ca we not help all, and therefore help ourselves

reply to post by Night Star

It has cost us billions in free education for these kids from grade 1 to 12. Now they want a break on a college education when our own kids arn't getting a break?

Funny how you all say illegals should follow the law, but you all refuse to follow the Supreme Court decision that said those children must be educated.

www.law.cornell.edu...

Many States are coming down hard on them and thinking of the citizens first as it should be.

Nope. It isn't about the illegals. It is merely a tool to keep the focus off their incompetency and their inability to balance a budget.

In the end let's see how much that legislation ends up costing the citizens that they are thinking of.

reply to post by incrediblelousminds


Obama puts Social Security, Medicare cuts on the table and we are supposed to help illegals?
Illegals know full well that they are taking a job that belongs to a citizen. they are not blameless. They have also driven wages down for others.

Illegal immigration is a huge problem on so many levels. Check out the numerous threads on the issues here at ATS.

You do not reward the kids of illegals and shove citizen kids aside as though they don't matter. What a slap in the face to every child who needs the breaks that the illegals and their kids get.

Originally posted by Night Star
reply to post by incrediblelousminds

 

Obama puts Social Security, Medicare cuts on the table and we are supposed to help illegals?

Im sorry, but that question is framed far to simplistically and partisan-ly for my tastes. You appear to be trying to have a discussion not necessarily related to the article in the OP, but instead about your clearly anti-immigrant dogmas.

Illegals know full well that they are taking a job that belongs to a citizen. they are not blameless. They have also driven wages down for others.

Illegal immigration is a huge problem on so many levels. Check out the numerous threads on the issues here at ATS.

Yes, now you are merely affirming that you are likely unable to have a nuanced discussion due to your deeply set anti immigrant dogmas. Thats a shame. Its a good article.

So you think an illegal child should get a benefit that a citizen child won't get. I don't feel it is fair or right.
With the economy being so bad and important things are being cut or about to be cut, you feel it is just fine to spend all that money on illegal kids who won't be able to get a proffesional job when they graduate because they are illegal. Yeah that makes sense.

Originally posted by Night Star
So you think an illegal child should get a benefit that a citizen child won't get.

Who said that (question mark)

With the economy being so bad and important things are being cut or about to be cut, you feel it is just fine to spend all that money on illegal kids who won't be able to get a proffesional job when they graduate because they are illegal. Yeah that makes sense.

Again, you seem like you arent really interested in a nuanced conversation. Now your just repeating the same talking points you previously posted.

Oh well. I found it t be interesting, even if a few of you didnt read past the headline

probably all Obama's fault.