Help Requested: Advancing in Meditation

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by LifeIsEnergy

 

Hello my friend, Peace be with you.
Thanks for the advice. Currently I would say I'm beginning #4. To be conscious of the consciousness that is conscious. I understand the concept, in that my perceptions are merely a tool for the observation of the consciousness. Am I on the right page here? I understand the concept, but I have not yet experienced it. It's like, I know my perceptions are illusionary tools, yet experience has yet to confirm the consciousness beyond my being conscious.

Thank you very much for your words. Experiences come and go, thank you

Yes, it seems you are on the right page. Consciousness and your conscious are not the same thing, this is important. "Consciousness" is the energy of awareness, which permeates everything, both external and internal.It is not dependent upon your body or mind but instead filters through your body and mind. Your "Conscious" is solely an awareness of your body and mind that arises from the energy of "Consciousness", and it is entirely dependent upon your body and mind. It is a self-awareness that contributes to the creation of your feeling of separation from your surroundings, insofar as the creation of your "personality". It is also known as the "ego".

To go 'beyond' your "Conscious" to rest purely in "Consciousness" one must come to a place of "No-Mind", where the identification with the body and mind completely dissolves. This is a most difficult thing to sustain, for, your conscious, or ego, must grasp onto something, must identify itself with something, in order to 'survive'. Thus when you begin to let go of your ego, or conscious, it becomes fearful of dissolution and tries all sorts of tricks to re-establish itself as real, as present. The story of Mara, in the Buddha's enlightenment, describes this very well in a allegorical way.

Alan Watts gave an analogy of this "No-Mind" by comparing it to the difference between your eyes focusing in on a single object and your eyes utilizing peripheral vision. When you focus your eyes in on a single object, such as a single letter in one of these words, with great intensity you become completely oblivious to everything else in your surroundings, except for that object. But when you utilize your peripheral vision, and do not grasp onto any single object, you become aware of the entirety of your surroundings at once. I'm not sure how helpful that is for understanding the experience of "No-Mind, in fact I am not sure if there is any explanation that can be given that will really do it justice. I guess all that can be said is that you just have to experience it to 'know' it.

Last but not least, it is important to know that this "No-Mind" can only happen spontaneously. It cannot be achieved through any method or practice or discipline. Although a method or practice or discipline can prepare your mind to be in a prime state for this spontaneity to happen, this does not mean it will happen. It is not something that you can do, as in a point A to Z type action of steps. It is more of an inaction than an action.

Hope some of that helps!

Peace friend.

reply to post by Novise

"Is the Book Old Path White Clouds, by Thich Nhat Hanh?"

Yes! That is exactly the book, and exactly the passages I was referring to. Isn't it wonderful? So far this is definitely one of the most enjoyable books I've ever read.

I was hoping that by making this thread and detailing my progress, that someone could nudge me in the right direction, expound on my progression thus far, or even point out any concepts that I may have skipped or missed.

There's a difference between what I study to understand, and what I experience to understand. I have experienced and know the interconnectedness, codependent, and impermanence of existence. The concept of no separate self and oneness is a very real truth to me. As described earlier by LifeIsEnergy, I am beginning the stage of "Awareness over the Watcher," or even expanding my consciousness into the infinity.

When I reach the state of nothingness.... void of thought and perception... expansive dark nothingness... is this state the infinity? I always assumed infinity and nothingness were polar opposites until I read the thread Infinite Nothingness's Infinity by smithjustinb. That thread has had me pondering ever since.

Thanks for your insights. May Peace be with you Novise.

It is a wonderful book, actually suggested by a fellow ATS'er when I first got it. One thing about Biographies on the Buddha, they are rare. So it couldn't have been but 2 or 3 books that it had possibly came from. I remember reading the book and it helped me so much. Yes, the Co-Dependent nature of all things was something else I had taken for granted before reading it.

I really wish I could help about the states, but I've never experienced that for myself - where the teacher has all these things for you to accomplish in your meditations, and because of his understanding of the phenomena, he knows when you have genuinely understood and had that experience and can tell you.

To try and answer the question on nothingness, I would say it is infinity. Thought and perception are what makes infinity seem finite, so without those, you have infinity. Now I hope that's helpful but I don't know for sure. The book has a great explanation of emptiness which I think would be very useful here (not sure what chapter it's in but I may manage to find it later), so when you are in this state you call nothingness - ask yourself what is not there, what is it empty of. What is the zen saying, not this, not that.

Really the book is so good about teaching things like that. So I'd rather just say that when you get to the part about emptiness that should help you.

One particular state I suppose I have felt and can add to the thread is the feeling of everything continuing on. No matter how you feel about it or what you do. I think Alan Watts explains it well in this talk. It's really comforting to me when I feel helpless or defeated about life. And maybe that's when you feel it most, that this will never stop no matter how hard you tug or push on the brakes you'll always be pulled along by this God or reality or whatever that simply will not let you give up, and this never ends. In other words, "you aren't giving up, and this isn't going anywhere, so there's nothing to worry about, your mind has been made up for you, now get out there and do it!" That of course, I guess, is only one side of the coin though.

reply to post by mb2591


Quieting the mind is the first major obstacle of meditation. It will take some practice, but the rewards are well worth the effort. The ability to 'not think' will give your brain a rest, relieve stress, and re-energize you like a good nap.

Make some personal 'me time' where you will not be bothered or distracted by people, pets, sounds, text messages, etc.

Sit or lay in a very comfortable position. Close your eyes and focus on your breathing. Slow and steady breaths. Become aware of your breathing and focus on it. Concentrate on breathing in, concentrate on breathing out. Slow, deep breathes.

As thoughts, memories, images, emotions, or songs appear in your mind, do not think about them, do not engage them, and do not dwell upon them. Do not think about 'not-thinking' about the thought. Snap out of the thought and focus on your breathing.

If you are having trouble clearing your mind of thoughts, imagine you are at a rail-road crossing as a train crosses. Imagine each distracting thought as an individual boxcar of the train. You see a boxcar come into view, you watch it pass. You notice a thought, you let it pass. Be aware of it, do not fight it. Observe it, and allow it to pass out of your awareness.

Or imagine you are sitting by a river. Imagine each distracting thought as a leaf drifting in the water. The leaf comes into view and is carried down stream and out of sight by the current. Do not add to the thought, and do not think about 'not thinking.' Allow the thoughts to arise and pass, acknowledged but not engaged.

As you gain control over distracting thoughts, continue to focus on your breathing. Do not have a conversation in your mind about breathing. Simply, observe your breathing. Continue to allow thoughts to arise, then pass without ever adding to the thought.

As the thoughts come less, and your internal voice stops chattering, your mind begins to quiet. Enjoy the emptiness of a quiet mind. Find Peace and relaxation in a quiet mind. Stay in that quiet place as long as you can hold it, or as long as you desire.

You may even fall asleep while meditating at times, and that's ok too. I bet it will be a restful sleep! Just try again the next day, and the next day, until you can quiet the mind without falling asleep.

Don't become discouraged. Meditation takes effort, practice, dedication, patience, trial and error. Give yourself 10-30 minutes of 'me time' each day to practice quieting your mind. Do not become discouraged, just like sports it takes practice. It took me a couple of weeks of practice until I could quiet my mind, don't give up.

In my personal opinion, further meditative techniques should not be tried until you are able and comfortable with focusing on your breathing and clearing your mind of distractive thoughts.

reply to post by ChungTsuU


Peace be with you ChungTsuU.
Thank you for sharing such insightful information and your experiences. Love, forgiveness, patience, compassion, helping, service to others, non-judgementalism, and understanding others is key when delving into religion or spirituality. Sometimes we are so caught up in the illusions of ego and 'separate self' that we forget to cultivate these qualities in favor of selfishness. I am definitely understanding how extremely important it is to work on Love and all other emotions that stem from it.

When you experience kundalini, is it similar to how I have described the feeling? A feeling like something is alive in you moving up your spine/back? How has kundalini manipulation and awareness effected your spiritual path?

Thank you again for sharing. Peace and Love.

Brother, you are welcome. It is part of my "service to others".

Just over a year ago, my view of all this would put me in the this is BS, this is not real category, what drugs are you taking side of things. Such is ONE's journey!

The Kundalini began first by simply rocking me In meditation. At the time I did not understand what was happening, I simply let go of my EGO, and followed the flow of what my physical body was doing. Mentally, I tried to step back and be the "observer".

In time the energy would rise on it's own and set my crown to either tingle or almost burn, massive heat releases. Turns out I was feeding it because I was consciously breathing via the nasal passage and being mindful of all I came into contact with.

I had also been doing some Reki work to clear and heal at the time, stepping out of my little belief system. As this progressed I searched for an understanding of what I was experiencing, and yes, I had a person pop into my life that helped. Law of Attraction!

I used to have a BIG release of Kundalini as I learned how to bring it up and out the crown...lots of flopping! If I would get tense, anxious, stressed, etc...I learned that I could find a place to lay and do legs up the wall, or corpse pose, bring the energy up and shazzam the big release...calm and peace would sweep over me.

Restorative/Yin Yoga has played a large role in the cleansing and release of this energy, as has important Stargate dates...on 8/8/10 things just went to a whole new level.

Now it is whenever I want, literally I can walk along, drive my car, workout etc... mostly I will simply do some Qui-Gong about twice.

Hope this helps anyone that reads it. I am open to all who seek more and want to U2U me with specifics.

Regards and Nameste,

-Chung

Originally posted by Novise
ChungSu I thought that was an awesome post. And that's the first time I've heard the theory that the seven seals could be the seven chakra's. Cool! One key thing I think you might have left out about Christianity, among other religions, is the idea of forgiveness. The other religions have a way of letting go and not holding grudges, but I think Christianity is really the only one to present forgiveness as an action and it's own thing.

Never diagnosed with ADD here but I think I can strongly relate to that feeling. My suggestion would be to read first instead of trying to flat out meditate, and just make yourself at least try to meditate 5 or 10 minutes every day, that's it, that's all. Read slowly. You can read a book in a meditative fashion. You can write slowly, in a meditative fashion (I used to do this when I recalled my dreams and it's amazingly effective as far as getting more peace). Shoot you can walk slowly, in meditative fashion. Etc. "The Power of Now" a book we are discussing in another recent thread, is made to be read in a meditative fashion. "Old Path White Clouds" is another one that's great to really take your time on.

I feel that forgiveness is unconditional love.

To forgive is to be in the "Now"...unconditional love. Or rather, to be in the "Now" is to forgive.

There fore there is no past, there is no future, there is only "Now"... and to be in the "Now" is to love unconditionally!

I post this not to confuse rather to spread LOVE!

Regards and Nameste,

-Chung

reply to post by Sahabi


"the three pillars of zen"

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


Thanks for taking the time to explain. I understand what you are saying, and it makes all the sense in the world. Ever since I've dissolved my ties with established religion, it's almost as if I have to reestablish my foundations even though I already know them. It's like taking the truths I've learned from religion and reformatting them into another context. I've subdued the ego in the name of religion, but it has come back full force now that it's not for religion's sake. I'm learning to transcend ego for the sake of my being, not any outside source. It's more like relearning how to walk rather than jumping back on a bike :p

Turn the mind away from material objects and towards itself, this should call up the inner light within your mind. That light is the highest form of meditation possible (samadhi). It is an ecstasy that comes from realizing your true nature (the divine light). If you are at the stage of emptiness, move one step further towards transcendence and the light should be awakened. Transcend until you can not transcend anymore, and then try one more time, this will awaken the light within.

reply to post by Novise


I'm quite surprised with 'Old Path White Cloud.' I assumed it would read like any other biography, but it's much more deep than that! It's almost a spiritual text in its own right. This is a book I'll have to read and re-read to grasp all of the wisdom within its pages.

I enjoyed the video you posted. Alan Watts gave a very unbiased explanation of 'now.' Now is an extremely enlightening concept once understood and put into awareness. To know of the endless continuation of existence does help add more clarity and meaning to the 'now.'

It is my hope that you walk in Peace and Joy. Take care.

reply to post by ChungTsuU


Hello again brother, and may Peace be with you. Thank you once again for sharing your personal experiences. The first and only time I experienced kundalini, I was doing a short and light meditation. Nothing major at all, just releasing tension and clearing my mind. It happened spontaneously and completely unexpected. I felt the energy movement and placed my awareness with it. I observed it's pulsating ascension up my back, then I encountered the muscle spasm and cramp that you attributed to blockage.

I 'feel' that kundalini work can wait for now, as I work on strengthening my foundations. You see, I've so far progressed with the aid of religion. I've now since abandoned established religion in favor of transcendental truths, the discernment of my own heart, and personal experience. In doing so, it is almost as if I have to rebuild all of my spiritual and emotional foundations even though I know them and had a good awareness and control over them as a religious follower.

I fully agree with you that forgiveness and love is found in the 'now.' If one becomes completely immersed in the 'now,' then there is no past to hold the grudges.... there is no future where it is necessary to keep score. Only to Love and Accept all that occurs. Easier said than done at times, but it's still a truth nonetheless.

Thank you for adding depth to this thread with your contributions. Peace to you.

Originally posted by alex655320
reply to post by Sahabi

 

"the three pillars of zen"

Are you referring to the book authored by Philip Kapleau? Would you mind giving a brief description, and possibly some things that you have taken from the book and implemented into your own spiritual path?

reply to post by Sahabi


It's good to see others are actually interested in the topic of meditation and chi. With such a materialistic world we live in today most of us have completely lost touch with our inner selves because that is not taught in our society as it was thousands of years ago.

reply to post by filosophia


Thank you very much for your words and advice! I will definitely fix my awareness to transcend the emptiness of the void. I've so far not taken that step in order to better focus on my spiritual growth and understandings. Thank you again, and may you have the Peace and Blessings of this life.

reply to post by SeattlesFinest


Hello SeattlesFinest. Materialism has had a tremendous crippling effect on mankind throughout the 'modern' world. Material things now represent the individual person more than their own character or deeds in many societies.

We are not our cars.
We are not our clothes, jewelry, or accessories.
We are not our homes nor are we our bank accounts.
Our possessions, gadgets, and toys do not represent us.
We are not even our muscles, our manicured looks, nor are we our beautiful appearance. Even this fades.

It is sad that so many people have become disillusioned with materialism. It is our hearts, our characters, our understanding/insights, our words and our deeds that have the greatest bearing on who we really are.

reply to post by Sahabi


I couldn't agree with you any more.
The saddest part is that the new era's will be born into this materialistic world we have created out of false image so it never even comes across their mind, this is the new normal for us people. Over time these practices will fade more and more but just knowing there's people that follow these beliefs still show's that there are open minded people around, a lot of people are unlucky and will not even understand.
We used to live in a time where we knew how to use all 9 senses of our brain, now we are only trained to use 7.

reply to post by Sahabi


You are wise and it is good to know there are devoted seekers of truth. I do not know what more I can give you, perhaps this website will be of service:

www.kathodos.com...

I have done many different meditative techniques, but the highest is transcendence, samadhi, which is self-absorbed state, said to be equal to Brahman. That thou art, this Atman (soul) is Brahman (Godhead).