Help Requested: Advancing in Meditation

Hello, and may Peace be upon us all.

I was recently reading a biography of the Buddha, which gave a few brief stories of Gautama (Buddha) learning under various gurus during the beginning phases of his search for enlightenment. Gautama progressed through higher levels of meditation through instruction from the spiritual leaders he followed. He later set out on his own to finally reach enlightenment and his triumph over suffering.

When Gautama reached one level of meditative insight, he would return to his teacher who would then explain the next meditative goal. After reaching the next state of awareness, he would return to the gurus who would give him the next goal. This continued until his teachers had no more left to instruct.

I am seeking such instruction, and perhaps this could serve as a guidance to others also.

I have no idea what the 'standard or orthodox' progression of meditation or awareness is. I started meditating about ten years ago, and have progressed rather slowly, due to backsliding and lack of instruction. Basically, I just meditate on my own accord. When I read or hear of a state of being, concept, or technique that feels obtainable to me, I try it.

This is a brief summary of my personal meditative progression:

• Quieting the mind (I can now do this in less than a minute)
• Bodily Awareness (all parts of my body, and to the point of following the blood in my veins)
• Cause my body to warm/heat
• Energy (Chakras and Chi flow through my body)
• Emptiness (a state where I experience an absolute black emptiness, void of thought or physical perception)
• Out of Body Experience (extremely rare for me. I get the 'feeling' right before OBE many times, but only rarely can I get past the 'feeling' and actually OBE)
• Kundalini (I felt the stirring and movement of energy at the base of my spine, it felt like some creature inside my skin ascending my spine. It stopped mid-way up my back and I encountered a most terrible muscle spasm and cramp that lasted days. I have not progressed past this point)
• Seeing the energy/essence that interconnects all things (as I explained: I Have Seen The Veil)


This is not a, 'hey look what I can do,' thread. I am seeking opinions and comparisons of the techniques I listed, and what perceptions/awarenesses I should seek next. It is my hope that ATS members can help me, and by doing so, we can all help each other. Thank you to any/every one in advance. May Love and Understanding be our guiding light.

reply to post by Sahabi


can to enlighten how you managed to get to where you are.?

reply to post by Sahabi


Its wrong to see meditation as a set of practices separate from our normal lives for a start Meditation is more about freeing the mental faculties and relieving stresses so that we can access a fuller picture of reality then is available to us in our normal functioning consciousness. As a process then the only step we need to be aware of is mindfulness, everything progresses from there.

Emptiness, detachment, abundant bliss and so on exist within us all of the time but is buried under layers and layers of opinions we've adopted over the course of our life. This shows us that the practices, although common in origin, have different effects upon the people who practice them. In a very real way all of our life paths are highly individual and therefor so are the methods we should seek to transcend them.

Personally I never stop meditating but that is a result of years of practice for me. Anything I do, any practice, any herbal remedy I take, any train of thought I follow is simply re-focusing the object of my mediation but does not affect the meditation itself. Everything is a tool to be used for greater discovery but the tools are not the discovery, the method or the attainment itself.

Namaste.

reply to post by mb2591


The man that got me started into meditating was a 'New Ager' if you will. He was very big on Christ Consciousness. He helped me learn to quiet my mind and taught me about chakras. He used to tell me stories of his fantastic OBEs, so I decided to try once I learned to control and relax my mind and body. After deep meditation, I would tell myself that I am not 'this body,' and that I wanted to see the room without opening my eyes. I would feel a strange vibration throughout my entire body as I focused on clearing my mind, relaxing, and seeing the room without my eyes. Next thing I know, I see the ceiling and it started to get closer. So I look and see that I am floating, then a fear came over me and I quickly fell back into my body. This type of experience is the furthest I can so far attain. I haven't been out of body for a long enough duration to explore this state... I always just get sucked back in to my physical body. Perhaps I have not yet overcome fear, or haven't developed enough yet.

I saw Buddhist monks on some television program display their "power" to generate heat. They were in a shack of some sort in the middle of a wintery landscape. They sat in this unheated shack and draped ice cold and wet blankets over themselves. Within a few minutes, steam and heat started to radiate from the soaked monks. When I saw this, I wanted to try. I first started by focusing on my hands... making them hot. Once I got better at it, I began to heat my entire body.

As far as chakras and chi... I first learned about them, then started to focus awareness on them. That seemed to be enough, because it came easy for me to circulate this energy within my body.

The rest, I pretty much learned on my own through mindfulness, contemplation, and meditation.

reply to post by Sahabi


Ah ok I've tried meditating before but its hard and I'm add which makes it even harder
have you tried using your third eye.
Do you have tips about chakras and getting in to meditative states.

reply to post by Sahabi


Hey Sahabi,

There are traditionally four "stages" of meditation.

1. Awareness (Watcher) over the body. (Physical sensations)
2. Awareness (Watcher) over the mind. (Thoughts)
3. Awareness (Watcher) over the "Heart". (Feelings/Intuition)
4. Awareness (Watcher) over the "Watcher".

Remember that meditation is not about experiencing things but about gaining insight into the cessation of suffering, and then attaining that cessation. Experiences come and go, and should not be made a goal of meditation.

Peace.

reply to post by Imhotepsol


May Peace be with you.

I agree and understand your post Just this last few months I've taken 'quiet alone time' meditation and expanded it into my daily life. I now practice walking meditation and mindfulness (as long as I can stay focused on it ). I have been practicing being completely mindful of one's physical self, perceptions, thoughts, emotions, and the world around us. This alone has opened many understandings and insights for me.

Anyone can pick up a basketball and dribble it, and even get good at shooting the ball. But a coach is still needed to learn technique and the rules of the game. This is kinda where I'm at.

I read and hear other states of being, perceptions, and awarenesses, and just need a little guidance as to what I should be aiming for next.

Peace, Peace, Peace

You mentioned that the Kundalini rose to a point. This is a blockage you will want to release.

The Kundalini energy needs to rise up and out of your 8 chakra system, then return back to you, normally to your hands and feet. This is where the "fun" begins...

Reki can assist in clearing blockages involving your chakras and nadis.

This may be helpful on your journey:

www.dlshq.org...

I am more on the Qui-Gong side of things, however I found the above to be very helpful for myself.

Mudras have been important in my journey, note the 9 levels:

www.onmarkproductions.com...

Regards and Nameste,

-Chung

Originally posted by Sahabi
Hello, and may Peace be upon us all.

I was recently reading a biography of the Buddha, ...

edit on 7/5/11 by Sahabi because: (no reason given)

Who is the "I"? Ask yourself "Who am I?" continuously. A good article on this meditation: Who Am I Meditation

reply to post by mb2591


I am no expert or guru, but I can give you assistance according to my own experiences.

What exactly are you having trouble with in your meditations? Are you able to quiet your mind of thoughts? This was my first major obstacle that I had to overcome. It took some practice and advice from a friend. If you are having trouble clearing your mind, I could give you the advice that helped me.

As far as chakras go... I haven't personally 'used' my third eye or any chakras, per say. I first studied charts on the locations of the chakras, their purposes, and their colors. I then meditate and focus my awareness on each individual chakra. I tell myself what the chakra represents, then I focus on it's color and the place it is located. I do so until I feel the energy build, swirl, and radiate. After I feel the chakra 'open,' I then continue to the next chakra. I feel my third eye pulsate in-between my brows, then it radiates to my temples. Often times I feel this chakra pulsate before or during a new understanding, insight, or burst of creativity. The most notable effect of chakra meditation that I've experienced is an overall feeling of being balanced, energized, and refreshed. As each chakra has a different color, when I am balanced, I tend to be able to surround myself with white light a lot easier. It's not a light people can see, it's more of a feeling. You might want to first study chakra charts before you try.

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


Hello my friend, Peace be with you.
Thanks for the advice. Currently I would say I'm beginning #4. To be conscious of the consciousness that is conscious. I understand the concept, in that my perceptions are merely a tool for the observation of the consciousness. Am I on the right page here? I understand the concept, but I have not yet experienced it. It's like, I know my perceptions are illusionary tools, yet experience has yet to confirm the consciousness beyond my being conscious.

Thank you very much for your words. Experiences come and go, thank you

reply to post by ChungTsuU


Peace to you my friend.
I didn't even know what kundalini was until I experienced it. I had to net search to figure out what had happened. All of the material I read perfectly explained my experience. I will definitely visit the link soon. Blockage definitely sounds plausible.

I'm not too particular in the source of the knowledge or wisdom. I adhere to no religion, yet I draw portions of understanding and wisdom from all sources I encounter. Any teachings or systems that I am not accustomed to are most valuable to me

Have you experienced kundalini? If yes, would you share the experience?

I'll be sure to let you know if anything you've suggested helps me. Thanks. Take care. Peace unto you.

Hi Sahabi, others

I was wondering if you might be able to advise on a certain query I have, since the first post does mention the phenomenon. This concerns the "vibration".

for me, what started to happen, ( and it only happened right before i was about to sleep, but not every time i slept) was that the vibration would be so pronounced, and tangible, that i mistook it as the mattress or the bed shaking. the movements were not violent, but fast, frequent and consistent. it was a source of some fear & concern, and i must admit that on more than one occasion, i had to get out of the bed, turn on the light and carry out a physical inspection of the room to calm my nerves.

As i said, it happened right before i felt i would have been consigned to sleep, fully. and to bring myself back to consciousness took a struggle and endeavor which was almost physical in force and nature. but as i neared consciousness, the vibration seemed to subside.

the experience though was so real i was convinced every time, it could not be a dream.
i searched the www for some time, looking even for some foolish strings like "shaking bed syndrome". could not find anything that related well. I decided to curtail any attempts and progress on the spiritual/meditation vector, until i found some guidance or answer.

was that normal ?
any comments or suggestions would be very welcome and much appreciated guys.

cheers.

Is the Book Old Path White Clouds, by Thich Nhat Hanh?

I am skimming through and the stuff he went through with learning from gurus, before going off on his own look like this.

He went to gurus who were the heads of large and successful retreats or Sanghas or whatever they were called back then. These gurus had students of decades who were great monks, but could not attain the highest states.

these states went something like this

first dissolving the seeds of attachment and thought
the realm of limitless space (one with infinity)
the realm of limitless conciousness (realizing mind is present in every phenomena in the universe)
the realm of no materiality (no phenomenon exists outside our own mind, mind is present in all things)

Looks like it follows an order you can see, unless I've got it wrong, first you realize infinity, then that mind is part of that whole infinity, then you put two and two together and see that mind is present in all things, always.

Buddha learned these so fast that Alara had offered to let him lead the community with him, after a couple months of knowing him.

Then Buddha goes to a new teacher.

the state of neither perception nor non-perception (transcend all ordinary states of conciousness, a peaceful state but did not solve the problem of life and death, and suffering)

In that state apparently you would have transcended ideas of infinity and emptiness. Having experienced both nothing and infinity everything comes full circle and you can now truly transcend ordinary states of conciousness.

One thing that is cool is that the first few monks of Buddha, also understood pretty far up these states. And because they did they were able to understand Buddha's teachings when he came back to them. So while these teachings and states did not solve the problem of suffering, they were not useless.

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by mb2591

 

I am no expert or guru, but I can give you assistance according to my own experiences.

What exactly are you having trouble with in your meditations? Are you able to quiet your mind of thoughts? This was my first major obstacle that I had to overcome. It took some practice and advice from a friend. If you are having trouble clearing your mind, I could give you the advice that helped me.

As far as chakras go... I haven't personally 'used' my third eye or any chakras, per say. I first studied charts on the locations of the chakras, their purposes, and their colors. I then meditate and focus my awareness on each individual chakra. I tell myself what the chakra represents, then I focus on it's color and the place it is located. I do so until I feel the energy build, swirl, and radiate. After I feel the chakra 'open,' I then continue to the next chakra. I feel my third eye pulsate in-between my brows, then it radiates to my temples. Often times I feel this chakra pulsate before or during a new understanding, insight, or burst of creativity. The most notable effect of chakra meditation that I've experienced is an overall feeling of being balanced, energized, and refreshed. As each chakra has a different color, when I am balanced, I tend to be able to surround myself with white light a lot easier. It's not a light people can see, it's more of a feeling. You might want to first study chakra charts before you try.

Yes please help me clear my mind. I'm very add so every time ive tried to do this I always get stray thoughts then i get annoyed and say # it

reply to post by Sahabi


Peace Brother:

LOVE is the answer!

"I AM" about to state some things, and each is what I have discovered, my "gnosis".

What follows is my "gnosis", or view, in so much as to this point in my personal journey. To say this is the only way, would be to close doors. to be "AWAKE" is to constantly seeking truth.

The Tao = The Way

The first Christians were said to be "Following the Way..."

I am not looking to defend nor persuade anyone from their own journey. You asked me, so I answer. Glean what you want, reject what you want.

I have had a complete Kundalini awakening, and am unable to practice in public any longer in a traditional yoga studio without disrupting others. I have unlocked the hidden or "junk" DNA...

I incorporated Yin/Restorative yoga to balance out my very physical workouts. I then took a few classes of straight mediation and breathing practices.

I then brought that into the Yin practice not caring how loud it was...the "breath" and trust in God, unlocks the "Vital Energy" (from the Tao). Constant mantras (personal to me), and the mudras unlocked my deep SPIRITUAL energies I had buried long ago. They are "AWAKE as I AM" again!

As the Budhdda replied to the question;

Q-"Are you a God?"

B-"No I AM AWAKE!"

I have found that the "breath" is the focus of all. All breaths are now only via the nasal passage, others have mentioned being in a constant state of meditation prior. For me that is via the nose, constant mudras, and mantras...

The "breath of life given by GOD to Adam", was via the nose. This would be the biblical adaptation. Remember, Jesus said that to pray, "ONE must lock them self in, closing the doors and shutters, so that your neighbor does not see". Personally, I feel Jesus found Kundalini. Christianity is reluctant to embrace this idea (welcome to TPTB manipulating the unseen in our religions).

I am going to push some limits with this. I feel the "Seven Seals" from Revelations are the 7 Chakras. Jesus preached a "personal", and "intimate" relationship with the Creator. The Pharisees killed him because he was showing the people that the Pharisees were not needed, and each of us could "know/gnosis" GOD by unlocking what is within each of us.

Further, the New Testament uses the idea of a "Mustard Seed" that is deep within each of us. Kundalini is serpent energy...Does not quite fit with Satan being a Serpent, right?

So, instead of Kundalini we have the "Seven Seals" and a "Mustard Seed" in Christianity.

All LOVE is inter-related and TPTB have separated US. We are all the same, and LOVE is the answer:

Buddhism = Mindfulness, unconditional LOVE.
Christ Jesus = LOVE GOD with your whole heart and ONE ANOTHER, unconditional LOVE.
The Tao = Being the Pivot or the Center, meaning non-judgment, unconditional LOVE.
Islam = ONE GOD and the need for the Archangel's, unconditional LOVE.
Maya and Aztec's = "The Heart" given to the Creator/Sky GOD (it got distorted, yes human sacrifice...see Path of the Jaguar)

Each is how to achieve "Light Body" once "you" clear away your separation. I feel that bringing LOVE into each and every form of practice will advance you "higher" in vibration.

"LOVE IS MY RELIGION!" -Ziggy Marley

In the end, what has worked in my journey, may not work in yours. Please continue to ask and seek, this is truly "noble" of you!

Regards and Nameste,

-Chung

Originally posted by mb2591

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by mb2591

 

I am no expert or guru, but I can give you assistance according to my own experiences.

What exactly are you having trouble with in your meditations? Are you able to quiet your mind of thoughts? This was my first major obstacle that I had to overcome. It took some practice and advice from a friend. If you are having trouble clearing your mind, I could give you the advice that helped me.

As far as chakras go... I haven't personally 'used' my third eye or any chakras, per say. I first studied charts on the locations of the chakras, their purposes, and their colors. I then meditate and focus my awareness on each individual chakra. I tell myself what the chakra represents, then I focus on it's color and the place it is located. I do so until I feel the energy build, swirl, and radiate. After I feel the chakra 'open,' I then continue to the next chakra. I feel my third eye pulsate in-between my brows, then it radiates to my temples. Often times I feel this chakra pulsate before or during a new understanding, insight, or burst of creativity. The most notable effect of chakra meditation that I've experienced is an overall feeling of being balanced, energized, and refreshed. As each chakra has a different color, when I am balanced, I tend to be able to surround myself with white light a lot easier. It's not a light people can see, it's more of a feeling. You might want to first study chakra charts before you try.

Yes please help me clear my mind. I'm very add so every time ive tried to do this I always get stray thoughts then i get annoyed and say # it

"I AM" beyond ADHD...yet with mantras I hyper-focus, one of the gifts of ADD/ADHD! It is a strength!

ADD/ADHD are characteristics of multi-dimentional persons...look into this yourself.

Regards and Nameste,

-Chung

ChungSu I thought that was an awesome post. And that's the first time I've heard the theory that the seven seals could be the seven chakra's. Cool! One key thing I think you might have left out about Christianity, among other religions, is the idea of forgiveness. The other religions have a way of letting go and not holding grudges, but I think Christianity is really the only one to present forgiveness as an action and it's own thing.

Never diagnosed with ADD here but I think I can strongly relate to that feeling. My suggestion would be to read first instead of trying to flat out meditate, and just make yourself at least try to meditate 5 or 10 minutes every day, that's it, that's all. Read slowly. You can read a book in a meditative fashion. You can write slowly, in a meditative fashion (I used to do this when I recalled my dreams and it's amazingly effective as far as getting more peace). Shoot you can walk slowly, in meditative fashion. Etc. "The Power of Now" a book we are discussing in another recent thread, is made to be read in a meditative fashion. "Old Path White Clouds" is another one that's great to really take your time on.

reply to post by label


Hello, and may Peace be with you. Thank you for your advice. I have been spending lots of time on awareness and mindfulness of my perceptions, body, thoughts, and world around me. I feel it is getting very close for me to discover who 'I' am. I will meditate on the question. Thank you very much!

reply to post by richter13


Peace be with you!
Are you able to pinpoint the source of the vibration? Is it external, internal, or your body? Most of my understandings come from personal experience and contemplation, so my understandings may not suit you personally. We are all meant 'to experience,' therefore many experiences are more personal, though many commonalities may be shared. Most of the time, the profound experiences occur when I am most relaxed physically, mentally, and emotionally. Perhaps the relaxed state of sleep is the root of your experiences.

The vibrations I feel before out of body experiences are more internal. I can only assume it is my awareness, spirit, or soul bouncing around in my body before being released. I may be wrong, but this is what I feel is happening to me.

Trust in your self and fear not. Fear is a great tool for safety, but at times fear can be a crippling hinderance. In spiritual matters, fear can slow or stop progression. In the case of demonic (unseen) entities, fear can be an emotion that gives the being empowerment, causing them to be drawn to you or 'feed' off of you. In any case, try not to have fear when any abnormal experiences present themselves.

I hope you discover the cause of your experiences. Relax, accept the experience, follow it through, and fear not.