Good Samaritan? ...Or Bad Parlor Tricks?

Over the years of collecting many books dealing with prophecy and it's origins, I found in my possession, a book intitled "The Prophecies of Nostradamus: The Man Who Saw Tomorrow". It was written by Erika Cheetham & published by G. P. Putnam's Sons of New York, New York, copyrighted in 1973. I think the original was written some years before, and the version I have is a revised version. I found that the works of Nostradamus were heavily influenced by material he gained from his jewish roots, but once he had gained the knowledge on how to divine the future, he burned all evidence of the sources.

Today I read an article about Samaritans practicing some form of divining the future based on what they advised we the old original ways and it made me think of the influences that Nostradamus may have used for his own divination. Though, the technique is not the same, the origin could possibly be. Both use the stars in their practices. Reading through this news article made me wonder though... Just how much of this ancient knowledge is real. Either way, I found it an interesting read, including the seemingly downside for some who actually go to these Samaritans to get their readings. I have read in the bible where such practices were wrong, but It also makes me wonder if there is a fine line that I dont quite understand. I know some of you will have a field day with this... Just know.... I'm NOT looking for ridicule here. Constructive arguments please. If you think it's bunk or stupid... dont just say so.. say why, give your responce some merrit and some weight. Simple "it's stupid" comments are not worth reader's time and it's certainly a waste of your effort.

West Bank: ancient priesthood predicting future

The Samaritans claim to be the true children of Israel who left Egypt with Moses and consider themselves the guardians of the authentic Mosaic tradition. They say it is the Jews who over time diluted the religion revealed by Moses.

I have heard often, that those around the Jewish nation feel that the Jews are not the real Jews. I'm not really sure how this happened to where the Jews of 2000 years ago simply vanished or became non Jews or are now the Palastinians. I have never found any documentation that says anything like this. Still, I can not say one way or the other.

Hosni al-Samir, a 67-year-old Samaritan priest, says his people have been studying the stars for millennia.

"We have inherited astrology books for thousands of years," he told AFP. "The most recent one we use goes back almost 450 years."

The practice is restricted to the priestly class, which represents about a third of the total community, he says, adding that the use of astrology and numerology should not be confused with witchcraft or parlour tricks.

"We do not believe in sorcery, reading palms or coffee grounds or performing exorcism," he said. "All this is baseless quackery."

"We practise astrology by asking the name of the mother, the husband or wife, and we predict illness, marital breakdown or loss of work."

Samir, who started studying the ancient arts at the age of 12, says that each letter of a person's name has meaning and that the 22 letters of the ancient Hebrew alphabet used by Samaritans each correspond to a body part.

"The Samaritans have astrology books that are found nowhere else and are able to predict the beginning of each lunar month, and lunar and solar eclipses," he added.

People seem to spend very high amounts of money to get their fortunes read.

He says the astrologers see clients for five hours starting from 8:00 am, and a preliminary consultation costs 150 shekels ($44, 30 euros) although the price of a full prediction can range from 500 to 5,000 shekels (up to $1,450/1000 euros).

Not everyone is convinced that this works after spending large amounts of gold getting their fortunes read.

Umm Firas, a 28-year-old Palestinian woman from Jerusalem, consulted the Samaritans several times in recent months.

"I went to Mount Gerizim to ask for a reading when my troubles with my husband got worse," she told AFP.

"I gave them my name, his name and those of my children and all the information they asked for.

"They put a veil on me and took from me an ounce of gold at a price of more than 2,000 Jordanian dinars ($2,817/1,985 euros)," she said.

At the session, the astrologer told her that everything would work out with her husband. But he got it completely wrong.

"I was desperate and needed an answer but it did me no good. I divorced my husband, who married a Russian woman who worked with him," she complained. "I lost my gold to the Samaritans."

My own personal thoughts of fortune telling.. Does it work? I think so... But, not always the way you want it to. Personaly, I think it's bad to do these things. I dont know if the prediction happens because you're compelled to believe it and so you make your own prediction come true, or if there is some good or evil force behind it. I know that I have read that the bible says it is wrong and you should not do it. I did have my fortune read many years ago and the strangest part, over the many years, it seemed like all of the things shown to me came to be, and still I regret it. Wether it's real or not is beyond me, but I feel now that I would have been better off not knowing. Perhaps I would not have made my own way if that is the case. Perhaps I would have traveled a diffrent road without those fears that such things would have taken place in my life.


Thanks for reading!

From a Biblical perspective, it is clear. LINK

When you enter the land the LORD your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God. The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the LORD your God has not permitted you to do so (Deuteronomy 18:9-14).

Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed their evil deeds. A number who had practiced sorcery brought their scrolls together and burned them publicly. When they calculated the value of the scrolls, the total came to fifty thousand drachmas. In this way the word of the Lord spread widely and grew in power (Acts 19:18-20).

Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God (Leviticus 19:31).

I will set my face against the person who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute himself by following them, and I will cut him off from his people (Leviticus 20:6).

When men tell you to consult mediums and spiritists, who whisper and mutter, should not a people inquire of their God? Why consult the dead on behalf of the living? (Isaiah 8:19).

And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven (Deuteronomy 4:19).

... and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars of the sky (Deuteronomy 17:3).

All the counsel you have received has only worn you out! Let your astrologers come forward, those stargazers who make predictions month by month, let them save you from what is coming upon you. Surely they are like stubble; the fire will burn them up. They cannot even save themselves from the power of the flame. Here are no coals to warm anyone; here is no fire to sit by. That is all they can do for you—these you have labored with and trafficked with since childhood. Each of them goes on in his error; there is not one that can save you (Isaiah 47:13-15).

Hear what the LORD says to you, O house of Israel.This is what the LORD says: "Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them" (Jeremiah 10:1-2).

In every matter of wisdom and understanding about which the king questioned them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and enchanters in his whole kingdom (Daniel 1:20).

Personaly I dont believe in predictions palm reading and all the other things like astroligy

What is irritating is that every time someone writes about these topics somebody starts throwing Bibles at them WHY ?

Originally posted by granpabobby
Personaly I dont believe in predictions palm reading and all the other things like astroligy

What is irritating is that every time someone writes about these topics somebody starts throwing Bibles at them WHY ?

Thats perfectly fine with me. It does go with the territory and it's related. In this manner, it's of 3 diffrent faiths that point to the same issue. Christian teaching says that it's bad news. I'm not 100% sure but I "think" the people in this clip are Muslims, which I'm guessing by this, shows that there is a fine line in what's allowed. Judean ways also have some sort of fine line here. Certain things are alowed but others are not.

The bible that christians use, as the reponce to the OP showed, tell of many things being bad and wrong, but I'm not sure if it's specific about certain things. I gather that prophecy and or divination is wrong for personal use, but it "seems" that when used towards nations in some manner, it's ok, but only when directed by GOD.

The OP article is religeous in nature as it's based upon the Samaritan's belief that the Jews are not who they are supposed to be. Religious and non religious views are more than welcome in any of my threads, so long as they have basis.

Not to mention, my friend... You went against my requests for a proper responce. Be careful not to judge another's responce when your own is exactly what I requested not to happen.

reply to post by theRhenn

And they followed [instead] what the devils had recited during the reign of Solomon. It was not Solomon who disbelieved, but the devils disbelieved, teaching people magic and that which was revealed to the two angels at Babylon, Harut and Marut. But the two angels do not teach anyone unless they say, "We are a trial, so do not disbelieve [by practicing magic]." And [yet] they learn from them that by which they cause separation between a man and his wife. But they do not harm anyone through it except by permission of Allah . And the people learn what harms them and does not benefit them. But the Children of Israel certainly knew that whoever purchased the magic would not have in the Hereafter any share. And wretched is that for which they sold themselves, if they only knew.
- Qur'an, 2:102

reply to post by theRhenn

I give you a star for this

Constructive arguments please. If you think it's bunk or stupid... dont just say so.. say why, give your responce some merrit and some weight. Simple "it's stupid" comments are not worth reader's time and it's certainly a waste of your effort.

Glad to see that so far, people are paying attention to that line. I personally don't have an argument with your overall post, but some things I want to point out about this...

At the session, the astrologer told her that everything would work out with her husband. But he got it completely wrong.

"I was desperate and needed an answer but it did me no good. I divorced my husband, who married a Russian woman who worked with him," she complained. "I lost my gold to the Samaritans."

Couple of things here...
She mentioned she gave the astrologer her husbands date of birth, so while "everything would work out" for him, never implied that they would stay together. I bet he's happy with his new wife, therefore its accurate

She also says SHE divorced him. He didn't leave her.... so it was her free will and choice to go. Perhaps part of her, maybe even subconsciously, took her in that direction so that she could deny something else within the reading with "well they were wrong about that, they must be wrong about this".

In my mind, based on her admitting she was "desperate", I think her acts were very deliberate and conscious.

It seems obvious to me, that she went home and gave her husband an ultimatum thinking it would hasten their happiness. I even imagine her going through every step of the divorce process waiting for him to "fight" for her.... He took it as a cue to get on with his own happiness, wife be damned.

I'd like to see the rest of the reading though, and how it was all laid out. This is a micro interpretation, not enough information was given.

Its a grand misconception that "astrology" and being "psychic" go hand in hand. They do not... Things like astrology can do no more than give a guideline, and only for those who believe, because the people who refuse to believe will find a way to refute it.

I think astrology is as accurate as pulling a tarot card from a random number generator online. They're vague enough to apply to anyone - but I don't see any reason you can't look at that card/reading and find what pertains to you.

The future is not yet written. It can and will change.

Originally posted by granpabobby
Personaly I dont believe in predictions palm reading and all the other things like astroligy

What is irritating is that every time someone writes about these topics somebody starts throwing Bibles at them WHY ?

Sorry bout that..ATS was shut down so I couldnt reply till now .
I have my own way of thinking on this as I have my own Religion ..made up of several.Many times I have heard ,.Suffer the Witch not to live.
The paths to Him are many and varied .Was not trying to put any one belief down..Just iritared slightly at those who will not allow alternate beliefs .As all paths lead to Rome The paths to Him are like spokes in a wheel God is the hub of the wheel.
On the palm reading and fortune telling I have personaly known several..They work on watching body language and observations of the subject ..Fake ..The study of the stars is good for navigation..not fortune telling .These are my opinions on the subject the only way I try to explain things is by common sense .If you feel otherwise thats your right .and I respect that.I do have an open questioning mind..My beliefs are based on Faith in a God I cannot prove yet believe..Kind of a Paradox..but then thats the way it is for me .

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi
reply to post by theRhenn

 

And they followed [instead] what the devils had recited during the reign of Solomon. It was not Solomon who disbelieved, but the devils disbelieved, teaching people magic and that which was revealed to the two angels at Babylon, Harut and Marut. But the two angels do not teach anyone unless they say, "We are a trial, so do not disbelieve [by practicing magic]." And [yet] they learn from them that by which they cause separation between a man and his wife. But they do not harm anyone through it except by permission of Allah . And the people learn what harms them and does not benefit them. But the Children of Israel certainly knew that whoever purchased the magic would not have in the Hereafter any share. And wretched is that for which they sold themselves, if they only knew.
- Qur'an, 2:102

Could you explain a bit of this? People used to tell me that the bible's thee's and thou's were confusing. I have to admit, I understand the thee's and thou's but I'm scratching my head a bit in tryin to decipher what exactly the koran is saying about this. Fortune telling bad or good?

Thanks in advance!

reply to post by Forevever


Hmmm You prove a very valid point! I didnt read it that way, but now that you brought it to my attention, I see exactly what you're saying. My grandmother used to say (hehe yeah I know).. Be careful what you ask for, because GOD may give you exactly that!

Another thing that made light is that she "was desperate". Having more faith in a reading than the belief in the diety could be a bad turnaround for her in this case.

Thanks for the input! I appreaciate your responce. I learned something from that

Originally posted by granpabobby

Originally posted by granpabobby
Personaly I dont believe in predictions palm reading and all the other things like astroligy

What is irritating is that every time someone writes about these topics somebody starts throwing Bibles at them WHY ?

Sorry bout that..ATS was shut down so I couldnt reply till now .
I have my own way of thinking on this as I have my own Religion ..made up of several.Many times I have heard ,.Suffer the Witch not to live.
The paths to Him are many and varied .Was not trying to put any one belief down..Just iritared slightly at those who will not allow alternate beliefs .As all paths lead to Rome The paths to Him are like spokes in a wheel God is the hub of the wheel.
On the palm reading and fortune telling I have personaly known several..They work on watching body language and observations of the subject ..Fake ..The study of the stars is good for navigation..not fortune telling .These are my opinions on the subject the only way I try to explain things is by common sense .If you feel otherwise thats your right .and I respect that.I do have an open questioning mind..My beliefs are based on Faith in a God I cannot prove yet believe..Kind of a Paradox..but then thats the way it is for me .

No worries, I completely understand what you mean. I've had a difficult time slicing up my own feelings and thoughts on the matter. Though, when it comes to fortunes and the like, they've always proved bad news for me, so I've stayed far away since. Though, I must admit, when they mentioned that every letter of a person's name is important, as each pertains to something, I've wondered about this very thing many years ago. But the thing that makes it hard to believe is.. If this is true, then everyone with the same name or the same astro sign will all suffer the same fate and lifestyle, which I find hard to believe.

As far as your paradox, I fight with this daily I think. If not daily, then often enough. I guess it boils down to what is the real meaning of faith as well as other things. That, my friend, is another thread I believe I thought about making one about it, but I would have no idea where to start. My mind questions so often that I forget those questions as fast as they come. Unless I spend an eternity writting my thoughts down, they would elude me before I could touch a key.

Salute!

Originally posted by theRhenn

Originally posted by sHuRuLuNi
reply to post by theRhenn

 

And they followed [instead] what the devils had recited during the reign of Solomon. It was not Solomon who disbelieved, but the devils disbelieved, teaching people magic and that which was revealed to the two angels at Babylon, Harut and Marut. But the two angels do not teach anyone unless they say, "We are a trial, so do not disbelieve [by practicing magic]." And [yet] they learn from them that by which they cause separation between a man and his wife. But they do not harm anyone through it except by permission of Allah . And the people learn what harms them and does not benefit them. But the Children of Israel certainly knew that whoever purchased the magic would not have in the Hereafter any share. And wretched is that for which they sold themselves, if they only knew.
- Qur'an, 2:102

Could you explain a bit of this? People used to tell me that the bible's thee's and thou's were confusing. I have to admit, I understand the thee's and thou's but I'm scratching my head a bit in tryin to decipher what exactly the koran is saying about this. Fortune telling bad or good?

Thanks in advance!

Well, the verse is quite clear actually. God had sent two angels in Babylon, Harut and Marut, as a trial for people - they taught magic to people, but not before telling them that they are but a trial. Nevertheless, some people did not care and still wanted to learn that.

And by practicing that, they have chosen, as God says, a wretched way.

Basically, magic, soothsaying, astrology, etc. are completely forbidden in Islam - because they can ruin your life, as the example of that woman in Palestine shows who paid so much money for a bunch of lies and now she is desperate.
Well, she should have read the Qur'an first, maybe ...

Thanks for the responce.

I thought that might be the case, but at the same time I was confusing the words with something I read in the book of Enoch once before. Something about the fallen angels (those involved in mating with humans I believe) that were locked up in prison for their deeds and cried constantly untill their trial. They petitioned GOD through Enoch to be forgiven and they were not, for their deeds.

When I seen "Trial" I got a little confused, but now I understand completely. Thank you!

I guess that goes hand in hand with freewill, so to speak. You have a choice, but the choice you choose effects the life after, but you have complete control in the choices you make in the life you live, here on earth.