Which WW2 battle was more instrumental in defeating Germany?

Which battle during World War II do you believe was more instrumental in defeating Nazi Germany, D-Day or Operation Barbarossa? I'm an American and I'm hesitant to say that either side was more instrumental. On one side the Americans liberated France and on the other side the Soviets pushed back the Germans. Arguably, the Soviets reached Berlin first, but if it wasn't for the American-led invasion in Western Europe, the Germans could have focused all of their attention on the Soviet Union and possibly launched a successful counter-offensive. But without Operation Barbarossa, the Soviet Union would have been severely weakened, and possibly even defeated. Which battle do you think was more instrumental in defeating Nazi Germany?

For me personally I think something else decided WW2, not a battle but a sabotage action by the Norwegians of the German heavy water production.

That made sure their production of the Nuclear bomb was avoided, Germany would have won the war with the bomb.

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Originally posted by Grey Magic
For me personally I think something else decided WW2, not a battle but a sabotage action by the Norwegians of the German heavy water production.

That made sure their production of the Nuclear bomb was avoided, Germany would have won the war with the bomb.

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edit on 26-6-2011 by Grey Magic because: Spelling

Heavy water was a dead end anyway.

Kurst or Stalingrad...broke their backs...but the 1st major defeat was N Africa
just FYI Barbarossa was an entire Operation,not a battle,which is what you asked

I have to say this. You are a Typical American when you come out with the statement "Americans Liberated France" You are so wrong. Have you forgotten or not even been taught that there where British Canadian Polish French and other British Commonwealth troops involved in D Day? In fact there where more "none American troops involved as well as the British Navy and Royal Air Force. Before you make stupid comments the please get your facts correct.
As for your original question, the one of the most important battles that turned the tide against Hitler was The Battle Of Britain in 1940. By Hitler loosing that battle he had to give up on trying to invade Britain and instead turned toward the east thus bringing Russia into the war.

It's a good question, but ultimately I don't think you could have one without the other.
The battles of Kursk and Stalingrad were massive drains of German men and material, could the Germans have recovered without having to fight on the western front?
It's interesting to note that Stalin was screaming for the British and Americans to invade France.
What would have happened if the Germans would have had a strategic heavy bombing force in place that they could have used against the Russians? From what I understand Hitler personally was against the development of a four engine long range heavy bomber.
The allied (British and American) campaign of heavy bombing German cities and industry has to be factored in.
Another interesting question to note in regard to who was the first to reach Berlin. I think Patton felt hamstrung at the end, I think his Third Army could have beat the Russians to Berlin.

reply to post by Laguna


I would say that once the Allies had control of the air, that was the turning point. Without air support, the ground battle may well have lasted years. The landings during D-Day may even have been the greatest loss of life at that point.

The air war also turned the tide in the Pacific.

You could even say that Allied logistics won the war. He who has the most and is able to get it to the front, wins.

Actually the germans had 36 heaveybombers stashed in a secret airfield in norway.
These were for the bombing of new york.
They were awaiting the production of their uranium bomb which they had altready perfected and exploded.
The most signifigant defeatof Germany was in the air war i believe...without total air superiority we couldnt have pulled any of it off.
The fact that germany had planes aplenty was offset by the lack of trained crews and pilots.
The german air force was running on empty.
Should they have been able to supply the needed materials to the Stalingrad fron, they may have succeeded there.
The supplies they did fly in never mounted to more than 1/10th of what was needed daily.Kursk was another great defeat in its own right.
It is to be noted that as long as the german artillery was in place they never lost a battle.(in russia)

reply to post by alldaylong


I don't think that the OP thought only, "Americans liberated France" though he/she did post it. But it was Eisenhower who had overall Command. Much to Monty's and Pattons chagrin.

every battle in which hitler overrode his generals advice. those seem to be the only battles that they couldnt win. stalingrad, the bulge, even d-day hitler just kept making mistakes that the generals wouldnt have made. kinda scares me when i consider how well rommel wouldve done without hitler crippling him on a few occasions.

No one battle was THE deciding factor. If you forced me to choose one, I would say Pearl Harbor. Lend Lease defeated Germany. Germany was defeated by the industrial capacity of the US. The USA out produced the rest of the world combined during that conflict. The Soviets beat the Germans because of American trucks, food, weapons, ammunition and even clothing. We provided almost everything for their war machine. We supplied all of the allies as well(Canada gets an honorable mention here as they also produced quite a bit for their size). However, if the isolationist Republicans had succeeded in derailing lend lease, and the Japanese had not allowed Roosevelt to coerce them into attacking us. Germany could certainly have won.

You all need to study the history of this period.

Battle of the Atlantic

The allies would not have been able to assemble or re-supply a fighting force to take on Germany without the Naval fleet bringing war material from the U.S. and Canada.

Everything essential to all the major campaigns discussed here had to be loaded on ships and safely traverse the Atlantic.


Even with all of Germany"s wolfpack submarines out int the Atlantic the Merchant Marine force and their Naval protection forces delivered more than enough material to eventually succeed.

The Axis(Germany and Japan) lost the war when they could not ,control the seas.

It was all delivered by civilians.

reply to post by IamJustanAmerican

Again you neglect to consider the fact that we were able to build transports faster than they could sink them. Industrial capacity won WWII.

I have studied WWII because both my father and uncle were quite involved and I would have to say that one of the most, if not THE most "turning point" battles would have to be the Dieppe Raid, which, in fact, was a battle we lost miserably. But because of this terrible loss, we learned more valuable lessons than we ever could have otherwise and ultimately led to the defeat of the German forces. My uncle Tom McQuaid was a P.O.W. of Dieppe, but I'm not just saying this about the raid to assuage any fear that he went through all that he went through for naught. This is the opinion of many who fought there.

en.wikipedia.org...

No major objectives of the raid were accomplished. A total of 3,623 of the 6,086 men (almost 60%) who made it ashore were either killed, wounded, or captured.

canadaonline.about.com...

The Battle of Dieppe was a test for the full-scale invasion of western Europe. The plan was to make a frontal assault on the town of Dieppe, across the English Channel on the coast of France. The raid on Dieppe would give the Allies a chance to test techniques and equipment for landing troops from the sea. The Battle of Dieppe was a disaster for the Canadians. Nearly 1000 Canadians died and nearly 2000 were taken prisoner.

www.veterans.gc.ca.../secondwar/canada2/dieppe

Conflicting assessments of the value of the raid continue to be presented. Some claim that it was a useless slaughter; others maintain that it was necessary to the successful invasion of the continent two years later on D-Day. The Dieppe raid was closely studied by those responsible for planning future operations against the enemy-held coast of France. Out of it came improvements in technique, fire support and tactics that reduced D-Day casualties to an unexpected minimum. The men who perished at Dieppe were instrumental in saving countless lives on the 6th of June, 1944. While there can be no doubt that valuable lessons were learned, a frightful price was paid in those morning hours of August 19, 1942. Of the 4,963 Canadians who embarked for the operation, only 2,210 returned to England, and many of these were wounded. There were 3,367 casualties, including 1,946 prisoners of war; 907 Canadians lost their lives.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/ff9d83ebb587.gif[/atsimg]

reply to post by Tasty Canadian


I'm really too sleepy to look it up at the moment, but wasn't the breaching of the Maginot line quite important?

Originally posted by aboutface
reply to post by Tasty Canadian

 

I'm really too sleepy to look it up at the moment, but wasn't the breaching of the Maginot line quite important?

Go back to sleep. The maginot line was flanked and shown to be a joke in modern warfare.

The Battle of Moscow...when Germany failed to take Moscow and knock Russia out of the war, the Nazi's could never from that point on mount an effective and massive offensive...each year afterwards, the German offensives were half of what they were the year before.

1941...the entire eastern front to Moscow
1942... the southern front to Stalingrad
1943... the central front at Kursk
1944...played solely defense
1945...capitulation

Addendum... if Germany had taken Moscow and knocked Russia out in 1941, they then could have unleashed all resources on Britain and N Africa....either defeating Britian and winning N Africa by default or taking N Africa and basically undercutting and isolating Britain.

From what I understand and have read, at that point...Germany would have been fighting a "partisan" war in Russia, could have solidified it's holdings in Europe and the Mediteranean and Africa....expanded eastward into the Middle East, built on political relationships with countries in South and Central America, expanded the abilities of it's navy in the Atlantic, delayed by years the attempted invasion of Europe by the Western Allies, and maybe even negotiated a peace with England.

Can you imagine where history might have taken them...Germans fighting along side Japanese in the South Pacific? German "wolf packs" off the coast of Hawaii and Australia? Maybe a German/Japanese invasion of India or Chile? Maybe even a joint sea borne invasion of S Africa?

The day American Bombers appeared in the air over Berlin in daylight,Goering is said to have commented"thewar is lost"...