Power grid change may disrupt clocks

Power grid change may disrupt clocks

news.yahoo.com

WASHINGTON – A yearlong experiment with the nation's electric grid could mess up traffic lights, security systems and some computers — and make plug-in clocks and appliances like programmable coffeemakers run up to 20 minutes fast.
"A lot of people are going to have things break and they're not going to know why," said Demetrios Matsakis, head of the time service department at the U.S. Naval Observatory, one of two official timekeeping agencies in the federal government.
Since 1930, electric clocks have kept time based on the rate of the electrical current that powers them. If the cu

(visit the link for the full news article)

Doesn't make sense, how can a coffee maker run fast because of a change like this? Generally something digital like that either works or it doesn't, wonder how they can make such a prediction. Smells fishy to me, wonder if they are going to replace my damaged appliances. Okay, I see where they try to explain it...but still don't understand why they are doing it. I hate time calculations, as a programmer it drives me nuts.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I remember seeing a post on here a few weeks back about peoples watches and stuff going nuts over in italy...

That same time frame when that was reported, my wristwatch, dunno specs on it, but it has the hour/minute/second hands, and a date thinger which just shows date of the month... but It jumped 2 days ahead...

I work in the electrical distribution field and over the past couple weeks we have been told to be aware of the time difference between actual time and the time kept by some of our advanced metering. Some electric meters have a program built into the meter that allows them to keep time.

In north America we use a system based on 60 hertz or 60 cycles per second. Europe is based on a 50 hz system. Some of our equipment keeps time by utilizing the sine wave inherent in the grid. If there was a change in that system that effected the sine wave then it would effect the equipments ability to keep accurate time.

Wonder if this will affect the power meter on my house...would hate to be overcharged on my bill.

This thread will get closed in a few minutes. My thread about the same thing go closed this morning.

A change in AC frequency does not result in any changes for DC and digital time pieces. Sounds like another fog off as the MIC opps again.

I have one of the"Atomic Clocks"....statys pretty much on time...

reply to post by kwakakev


It isn't the change in frequency as much as a change in the sine wave

reply to post by fixer1967
What was the title of your thread?

Originally posted by RandalFlagg
reply to post by fixer1967

 

What was the title of your thread?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by JonStone


The meter on your house probably doesn't have a program that concerns time. In my area we use some meters on businesses that are metered by pulses. There are a set number of pulses per revolution of the disk. These meters are used for customers that want to be able to have control over their usage or load control. They can monitor their usage and then adjust the consumption accordingly.

The company I work for has a program that gives new thermostats to customers if they sign up for a program that allows us to adjust their thermostat during times of high demand. The meters that are tied to these thermostats do make use of an internal clock.

Originally posted by fixer1967
This thread will get closed in a few minutes. My thread about the same thing go closed this morning.

When I saw this post I decided to investigate because there is nothing worse than a conspiracy within a conspiracy site. What I saw was without a doubt the most rational and intelligent thread closure statement since becoming a member.
The MOD not only explained why the thread was being closed, he also defended you and appealed to the folks who posted off topic and negative replys to be more patient and civil with their fellow members.
I suggest you return to your recently closed thread and read the comments by Gemwolf, to imply you were treated unfairly or that this thread will be closed is an insult to the intelligence and integrity of every member of this forum.
P.S. I have lost THOUSANDS of points in the last six months so I'm not choosing sides, I just don't understand why you would take a shot at someone who was trying to help you.

I think the reason the threads keep getting closed is that this is a likely Hoax. The story is being force-fed by one individual who isn't even listed in the AP as a journalist.

Furthermore the NERC website has no indication that this event is happening! If this were a real story coming from NERC they would have it on their webpage under "Newsroom".

NERC Newsroom

OK, well I did manage to find SETH BORENSTEIN under two previous video/film articles in the AP, one in 2004 and one in 2007. He appears to be someone that is on board with the Global Warming fiasco. Two articles which have nothing to do with this topic. AP Archive

Originally posted by Trublbrwing

Originally posted by fixer1967
This thread will get closed in a few minutes. My thread about the same thing go closed this morning.

When I saw this post I decided to investigate because there is nothing worse than a conspiracy within a conspiracy site. What I saw was without a doubt the most rational and intelligent thread closure statement since becoming a member.
The MOD not only explained why the thread was being closed, he also defended you and appealed to the folks who posted off topic and negative replys to be more patient and civil with their fellow members.
I suggest you return to your recently closed thread and read the comments by Gemwolf, to imply you were treated unfairly or that this thread will be closed is an insult to the intelligence and integrity of every member of this forum.
P.S. I have lost THOUSANDS of points in the last six months so I'm not choosing sides, I just don't understand why you would take a shot at someone who was trying to help you.

I did not take a shot at any one. Ask Gemwolf about the PM I sent him. I told him I did not care about the thread being closed. I did a ATS on the subject and it came back with no hits so I posted the thread. He closed the thread and I did not care about it. It seems the the search on ATS still has some bugs in it and my thread was close to the same as some others one just like this thread is. This thread and my thread are almost the same threads but with different titles.


What has happen to ATS? It is being taken down from the inside it seems.

Originally posted by Greensage
I think the reason the threads keep getting closed is that this is a likely Hoax. The story is being force-fed by one individual who isn't even listed in the AP as a journalist.

Furthermore the NERC website has no indication that this event is happening! If this were a real story coming from NERC they would have it on their webpage under "Newsroom".

NERC Newsroom

I have a freind that is with the power company and he is the one that told be about it to start with. So if it is a hoax it is a very big one when a rep from the NERC is talking to power companies about it.

PDF file from the NERC web site

As you can see from the date on the file this is something they have had in the testing phase for a while now. They are now putting it into use

I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out they are screwing around with the grid in anticipation of the solar maximum. NASA has even said that it may disrupt our grid.

OR

Hackers got into the grid and they don't want anyone to realize that possibility. China did a dry run about a year or so ago. If hackers could control the grid, this would explain why the article explanation seems to either not make total sense or fails to provide proper explanation. If hackers had the grid, they wouldn't know what to expect and are releasing this as a " don't panic we have everything under control" propaganda piece.

reply to post by fixer1967


That is interesting, but that is a survey from 2008. This sounds like Seth is a fear-mongering attention seeker to me! I will keep my eyes open on this one! Thanks

Originally posted by Greensage
I think the reason the threads keep getting closed is that this is a likely Hoax. The story is being force-fed by one individual who isn't even listed in the AP as a journalist.

Furthermore the NERC website has no indication that this event is happening! If this were a real story coming from NERC they would have it on their webpage under "Newsroom".

NERC Newsroom

OK, well I did manage to find SETH BORENSTEIN under two previous video/film articles in the AP, one in 2004 and one in 2007. He appears to be someone that is on board with the Global Warming fiasco. Two articles which have nothing to do with this topic. AP Archive

edit on 6/25/2011 by Greensage because: found more info

He's listed right here on the AP site:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6db418913e38.jpg[/atsimg]
www.ap.org...
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/6c2302443e1a.jpg[/atsimg]
news.yahoo.com...

Originally posted by JonStone
Doesn't make sense, how can a coffee maker run fast because of a change like this?

Easy peasy. The issue here is - how does any particular "clock function", like the one in your coffee maker, get its time base?

If it's an AC analog wall clock, then the way it keeps time is that the hands are driven by a little synchronous motor. The speed at which that motor turns is directly related to the AC line frequency. So if the AC is six percent slow, the clock will be also.

If it's a digital clock, and the clockiness of it is a secondary function, like when making coffee or being a microwave, then it can certainly be an issue. That's because the manufacturer saves money on a quartz crystal by counting AC cycles. I've done this many a time when I design commercial stuff. It costs a fair amount of money to put in an accurate quartz time reference, especially if the processor doesn't take a 32.768 KHz crystal directly. So, in a system where the accuracy of the clock function is secondary, I just hook the line voltage up to an interrupt input through a cap dropper and a diode clamp. Instant clock reference! The AC line was SUPPOSED to be held to very accurate specs over a long term - if they were a little fast for an hour or two, they're supposed to run a little slow for the same amount of time so that the total number of cycles in a 24 hour period is really close to the spec.

Now they want to toss that in the weeds. The problem is, if my clock function in the microwave or whatever, is expecting 60 interrupts in a second, and I'm getting 70, then my clock will run 'fast'.