Rochester police ticket attendees where lady was arrested on front yard who are parked more than 12

reply to post by SFA437


Wouldn't the police report have included a detailed account of what happen before the woman's camera started rolling? It barely mentions it. One can only assume that nothing happen, and the officer was covering tracks.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by SFA437


Now if I am coming towards you with a knife, firearm, bat, sharpened stick... do you KNOW what I am going to do with it? With 100% certainty? Do you allow me to get close enough to stick whatever is in my hand into/through your body or do you defend yourself from a perceived threat?

I often see people who have acted aggressively towards me begin to approach me while in possession of a firearm. Should I defend myself against the police officers who are threatening me in such a manner?

21 feet...that is a joke. I used to work admission in a state mental hospital. Upon admission, most patients were ordered "1:1, Arms Length". This means that a staff is assigned 1 on 1 with this patient, and can never get out of arms length. In all those years, I was only hit 1 time. I couldn't even begin to count the times that some ill person took a swing at me, and I had them laying on the ground with neither of us being harmed.

Strange that I, as an 18 year old, can manage to do it better with far less training than your average officer holding a gun.

On a side note, one of the greatest rewards is when you treat a violently mental patient with kindness and compassion, not allowing their violent acts towards you to be taken personally, and then one day you come to work to find the medications are now working. When someone like this can take the time to come up to you and apologize for their behavior, and thank you for your humanity, it makes any other problems you have at that time go away completely. Low paying menial work, but i miss that job sometimes.

If the officer has his weapon drawn and pointed at you... do whatever you feel like. One of the great things about this country is people can be as stupid as they wish. If it is your desire to attract a cops attention to the point he has his weapon drawn and then make a move on him- be my guest. Just don't expect tears and outrage when you get your melon split.

As for the 21 foot rule... it involves someone with an edged or impact WEAPON being able to contact an officer BEFORE he can draw his weapon from the holster and fire and it is why training regarding this hinges on increasing the space between you and the subject by backing away. It has NOTHING to do with unarmed people trying to hit you.... nothing.

As for dealing with EDPs you're spot on. While my interaction was from a police officer's view, talking them down from whatever state they are in or if necessary going hands on with a minimal amount of force to take them in custody and to the hospital works 1000x better than Tasing or spraying the person and yes... they do remember it the next time you encounter them 9 times out of 10 even if they are off their meds.

Originally posted by MaineLen
reply to post by SFA437

 

Wouldn't the police report have included a detailed account of what happen before the woman's camera started rolling? It barely mentions it. One can only assume that nothing happen, and the officer was covering tracks.

You know what they say about the word assume.

Now- the rule of thumb for report writing is "If it isn't written it didn't happen". That is not an assumption- that's a fact for police officers (good ones anyway)

I will say this:

I worked as an officer in southeastern North Carolina. Had I pulled this nonsense with the rest of my shift I would be out of a job along with every other officer scratching out a ticket- however these Rochester guys will not. This is why:

The police in NY have unions. The PBA and FOP to protect these guys no matter what they do. It is what unions do. The keep those on the job who have no right to be there because they are tore up from the floor up (other than loot their treasuries but that's another thread).

The police in NC have no such protection as it is a "Right to Work" state. There is no civil service test, there is no job for life... you can be fired for having blue eyes if the Chief or Sheriff feels like it. You learn to be responsive to the community's needs and to assist them in solving whatever issues/problems they have. You do not interfere any more than is necessary in their lives and take enforcement action only when necessary. THAT is was being a police officer SHOULD be like.

reply to post by NephlimKilla

Police vehicle (the one on side road at least) is parking way over 12 inch from curbside. Who punish them from their breaking the law at the same time?

reply to post by SFA437


I think the differnce here is between "brandishing" and "carrying". Was the lady brandishing a weapon? Your initial question was about whether or not she had a knife in her hand. One could assume that if her hidden hand were BRANDISHING a weapon, we would have noticed. Since it remains hidden, it is possible that she could have been CARRYING a potential weapon.

Just like an officer walking up the sidewalk with a gun. He is carrying the weapon, not brandishing it. You are comparing apples to oranges. I wasn't referring to "guns drawn". I was merely referring to there posession of a gun.

reply to post by Kitilani


My point is, if i move to Rochester NY my license reciprocates there. I would not be aware of this very minor difference in law. the presumption that everyone should know this is incorrect.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by SFA437

 

I think the differnce here is between "brandishing" and "carrying". Was the lady brandishing a weapon? Your initial question was about whether or not she had a knife in her hand. One could assume that if her hidden hand were BRANDISHING a weapon, we would have noticed. Since it remains hidden, it is possible that she could have been CARRYING a potential weapon.

Just like an officer walking up the sidewalk with a gun. He is carrying the weapon, not brandishing it. You are comparing apples to oranges. I wasn't referring to "guns drawn". I was merely referring to there posession of a gun.

It's been proven many times over that action is faster than reaction. The 21 foot rule refers to a weapon in hand however the person who breaks leather first in a gunfight usually wins. Succinctly put it is better to initiate than react if we are discussing survival in a deadly force incident whether it involves a firearm, knife or impact weapon.

Now there's some stuff that has come out- to wit this woman is an agitator known to break laws in order to make whatever point she is trying to make- in this case primarily protesting banks taking back homes people cannot pay for to recoup their "money" loaned (don't get me started on how banks do not "lend" money they create it). As an officer (before I left for greener pastures) I would not have liked to have her so close to me given her history of negative interactions with my department.

That being said I would not have arrested her for being an ass. For one it wasn't necessary IMO. Secondly there were other options that meet my "interfere as little as possible" internal benchmark. Third it gives the woman exactly what she wants- her 15 minutes of fame and a viral YouTube video.

All of this is shot through my personal prism of working as an officer and realizing that there are people out there who will kill me without a second thought (male and female) and that you cannot tell who will be the one by looking at them, or by what they are wearing nor where they are standing at the time.

By bottom line on this is the officer utterly screwed up by taking actions that were not necessary against a member of the community. I am just trying to give a police officer's perspective on why the officer might have done what he did- not because I would do the same.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Kitilani

 

My point is, if i move to Rochester NY my license reciprocates there. I would not be aware of this very minor difference in law. the presumption that everyone should know this is incorrect.

You are correct. One affirmative defense to VTL infractions is home state exceptions. A case in point is NC does not require a front plate. NY does. You cannot be ticketed for not having a front plate in NY if your vehicle is registered in NC. The same goes for infractions although VTL misdemeanors and felonies are not covered as what constitutes "reckless driving", "DWI/DUI" and others are essentially the same. There's a LOT more to it than that but the above is a bare bones example.

Originally posted by Youmakemewonder
reply to post by felonius

 

Well just to be fair. You are kind of supposed to be able to not only park less than 12 inches from the curb, but parallel park less than 12 inches from the curb to get your license so if you cannot do that simple thing...what other qualifications for driving do you fail?

I stand by my statement about the "letter and spirit" of the law.

Nailing someone for 1/2 an inch is not "law enforcement". Its being an ass and being a TAX COLLECTOR.

Originally posted by SFA437
I will say this:

I worked as an officer in southeastern North Carolina. Had I pulled this nonsense with the rest of my shift I would be out of a job along with every other officer scratching out a ticket- however these Rochester guys will not. This is why:

The police in NY have unions. The PBA and FOP to protect these guys no matter what they do. It is what unions do. The keep those on the job who have no right to be there because they are tore up from the floor up (other than loot their treasuries but that's another thread).

The police in NC have no such protection as it is a "Right to Work" state. There is no civil service test, there is no job for life... you can be fired for having blue eyes if the Chief or Sheriff feels like it. You learn to be responsive to the community's needs and to assist them in solving whatever issues/problems they have. You do not interfere any more than is necessary in their lives and take enforcement action only when necessary. THAT is was being a police officer SHOULD be like.

edit on 26-6-2011 by SFA437 because: (no reason given)

YOU sir are what a TRUE policeman is about.

Thank you for your service and "be careful out there".

reply to post by SFA437


Can't argue with what you say here.

I will point out that aggression towards police is not helped by actions such as this. I would argue is is part of what creates it. I once heard someone say that the best police force is one you never even notice.

ETA: i once had someone laugh at a suggestion that i made where local PD's engage in such charitable acts as building parks for kids. He said something like, "LOL, cops are not your friend. It is a serious job." The ludicrousness of that thinking aside, what are your thoughts on that kind of action to rebuild tarnished images?

Locally, several businessmen got together to put up a really nice wooden play area for kids at a local park. when vandals burned it down, we made it even bigger. It is a really nice area and attracts kids from surrounding counties (now, this year, in tandem with our new public waterpark). Could such an undertaking not be a way for police to show kids that they aren't the boogeymen i tend to think they are?

DP

Originally posted by felonius

YOU sir are what a TRUE policeman is about.

Thank you for your service and "be careful out there".

Thanks brother I left the job a long time ago but those guys who went through me as a field training officer and academy instructor either left with the same attitude to continue on with their careers as peace officers or they left... period.

What produces things like the original incident and this asinine ticketing fiasco is a lack of good instructors. I had a rookie who in his third month (I was in civilian clothes in his cruiser and observing only) liked writing people for "California stops" where a driver does a very slow roll through a stop sign. He was corrected by ME writing HIM a ticket for doing the same in the patrol car. Even used his citation book I made him go to court and talk to the DA to get it down to an equipment violation (tail light ticket). For anyone with a clean driving record the equipment violation plea was SOP for our ADAs- no preferential treatment. The lesson was learned and he went on to be a peace officer- not law enforcement.

I EFFING HATE THE TERM "LEO" by the way. A police officer is NOT there to "enforce" anything. A police officer is there to protect the public from the 5% of our population who seeks to prey on the other 95%.

The second half of the problem is that organizations like the PBA and FOP will go to bat for the s**tstains who think of themselves as "enforcers" and act like Buford T Justice. Any public service should NOT have a damn union- especially one empowered to restrict freedom through arrest and detention and to take life in the performance of their duty.

Sorry this is so off topic but I do think it relates and ties well into the officer's actions. Essentially with the PBA the officer has no fear of repercussions for his actions and THAT is why this went down the way it did IMO.



reply to post by felonius


I'd call it being a bunch of vindictive, petty, juvenile imbeciles


reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


ETA in response to your ETA

In NC we did things just like that. It's called "Community Oriented Policing" or COPs. We did ride-alongs with troubled teenages to show them where they were headed, got involved in community projects like park clean-ups off duty (usually wearing department polo shirts), helped build parks, paint over graffiti, check in on old folks, let teens planning parties when the 'rents were away that we knew what they were up to (solving a problem BEFORE it happened) and things like that.

All of this seems to be lacking in Rochester. Need to send these guys down to Dixie so we can show em how it's supposed to be done

The biggest part however is not doing stupid things like this in the first place though

Originally posted by metaldave
To the OP...

What is your point???

Who really cares about this???

They have to make their money some how right???

GIG WUT YOO GUF... Remember the dukes of hazard? No? NO...

WHO REALLY CARES?

trollololl..

the nex person after me, loses my game too.

brrr...

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by Kitilani

 

My point is, if i move to Rochester NY my license reciprocates there. I would not be aware of this very minor difference in law. the presumption that everyone should know this is incorrect.

My point is what I said about getting a license in NY state is still 100% correct. My other point would be that you will still get a ticket. Whether the ADA gives a crap that you came from Texas will be determined later.

Originally posted by felonius

Originally posted by Youmakemewonder
reply to post by felonius

 

Well just to be fair. You are kind of supposed to be able to not only park less than 12 inches from the curb, but parallel park less than 12 inches from the curb to get your license so if you cannot do that simple thing...what other qualifications for driving do you fail?

I stand by my statement about the "letter and spirit" of the law.

Nailing someone for 1/2 an inch is not "law enforcement". Its being an ass and being a TAX COLLECTOR.

Isn't that exactly what the letter and spirit of the law is about? If not a half inch, how many inches over the LIMIT should you get away with? How much faster than the speed limit should you get to go? It kind of seems like enforcing a law on the books exactly as it is is kind of the one thing they can say they did right. Going out hunting for it is the part they got wrong.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
While I agree in some sense, in another sense you are full of it. A cop was shot in the back of the head with a .22 bya 12 year old like 2 years ago. Rochester is a rough town....Im sure you arent walking around the 19th ward at midnight. I sure as hell wouldnt.

Yes, a cop was shot by a 14 year old who turned himself in days later. I am not a cop. I have no idea why you would not walk around the 19th ward after midnight. I never said every street in Rochester was paradise. I will not walk down Ave. D any time of day but there is no time of night that the 19th ward scares me. Sorry you are scared.

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
I live in downtown rochester. I hear gunshots at night several times a week.

i wish the police would do their job instead of harassing law-abiding citizens.

You must be pretty young and pretty scared. I heard gunshots all the time growing up and yet the streets were not littered with bodies by day. The murder rate in Rochester is actually pretty high. You know what is really low? The murder rate of random white girls in Rochester. I am pretty safe. When I went to high school you could not walk down Gennessee St. Now it has a resort hotel on it. Rochester is not as bad as the kids make it out to be. This is why the cops have so much time to ticket.

The reason the Rochester Police Department conducted this was because of Emily Good's actions and to get back at her. You don't mess with the police department, there is no excuse for her actions and she should be held responsible for those actions.

Originally posted by Kitilani

Originally posted by aching_knuckles
I live in downtown rochester. I hear gunshots at night several times a week.

i wish the police would do their job instead of harassing law-abiding citizens.

You must be pretty young and pretty scared. I heard gunshots all the time growing up and yet the streets were not littered with bodies by day. The murder rate in Rochester is actually pretty high. You know what is really low? The murder rate of random white girls in Rochester. I am pretty safe. When I went to high school you could not walk down Gennessee St. Now it has a resort hotel on it. Rochester is not as bad as the kids make it out to be. This is why the cops have so much time to ticket.

Yeh, OK. Go live on Joseph Ave, or Ave D. Gennesee street is nicer now, but thats because they bought up all the property and changed it into a boulder coffee and put a hotel there....but in that boulder coffee, I know for a fact they have incidents, some dude tried to drag a waitress in the bathroom and rape her....I drive by that intersection at least twice a day, 3 blocks down from that hotel is straight up ghetto. Infact, a dude was shot and killed last year a mile from that fancy hotel. BTW im 35 white male, not a small guy, and have been the victim of a home invasion.

Its great that you feel safe in Rochester, but crime statistics prove you wrong, sorry. Murder rate is high, robbery rate is high, assaults, etc.
Downtown is #, thats why anyone with money lives in the suburbs and comes downtown only to drink.

I support emily good, and her rights, but im not gonna pretend rochester is a nice place.