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We're going in circles; this has been my point all along; You CLAIM it's coming from God yet you have exactly the same information as i do regarding the unknown. (unless you play the experience card)
The bible makes extraordinary claims; which i pull into question; why should i believe them? For what reasons?
It's one thing to claim a deity exists (Deism) it's an entirely different claim to say you understand the deities mind (THEISM) Again....extraordinary claims.
Of course they wrote about "doubters" in the bible; because they knew their extraordinary claims could not be verified, and thus inevitably disbelieved.
I don't see any other reason other than faith to believe such claims.
And i don't consider (blind) faith a virtue.
I have simply answered your question, concerning God´s Judgement to those that never heard of God. And i have answer it as is written in the NT. Namely that you are accountable for your actions to Him, and not to religion. Simple as that. Personal experiences is not something that you or i or anyone have right to make fun of. A personal experience is just that(Personal).
It´s good to pull things into question. I am doing it also. But, i am not doing it in order to disprove anything, i am doing it in order to understand.
No one is forcing you to believe anything. If you want to believe then do so. If not then not. When you choose to believe, you are doing it for your own reasons and not because person x told me to do so.
I agree. I think there is also a verse in the Bible which says that no one knows the mind of God, if i am not mistaken.
...or to make you think what if it´s true.
Neither do I, but i also don´t consider a closed mind to the unknown as a virtue either.
Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
reply to post by 547000
Your will isn't free if you follow the will of a master.
Vicarious redemption is immoral preaching.
Redemption cannot be vicarious, but rather participatory. But who wants to participate in self-sacrifice for the greater good of others? Answer: Few.
Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
reply to post by Frira
Redemption cannot be vicarious, but rather participatory. But who wants to participate in self-sacrifice for the greater good of others? Answer: Few.
I agree. Many tribes (gone by) would scapegoat the sins onto an animal and send it off into the wild to absolve the tribe of "sin". Many other tribes performed human sacrifices too (The Mayans as one example)
Christianity is different, in that it asserts that the sacrifice of one human absolves the entire species of their sin. I don't believe we can rid ourselves of responsibility; and i certainly don't believe we are born into "sin" as scripture also asserts.
Peace.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
If you don't want to believe, go ahead. This isn't Islam, we aren't proselytizing with a sword.
This is correct.
Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
Can anyone explain to me why christianity and the christian god make any sense?
That's the thread title; i'm discussing it; the OP enjoys conversation; and i'm providing opposition to the claim that it makes sense; if you want to refute my points.
Originally posted by Hydroman
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
If you don't want to believe, go ahead. This isn't Islam, we aren't proselytizing with a sword.
True, but go back about 1000 years and see who was proselytizing with a sword. Islam is behind in the game.
You won't hear that from the Bible-thumpers-- they mean by "sin" anything you do that they don't like is evil and you will burn in Hell for it.
When our case comes up for review in the final judgment,
I hear from many Christians that, whatever they choose to do, they are guaranteed forgiveness. What a self-serving faith-- and those people scare me.
Originally posted by Hydroman
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
If you don't want to believe, go ahead. This isn't Islam, we aren't proselytizing with a sword.
True, but go back about 1000 years and see who was proselytizing with a sword. Islam is behind in the game.
Originally posted by ExistentialNightmare
reply to post by NOTurTypical
Perhaps you'd like a formal debate; I've heard that can be arranged on ATS.
I'd appreciate that very much.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Frira
You won't hear that from the Bible-thumpers-- they mean by "sin" anything you do that they don't like is evil and you will burn in Hell for it.
Absurd straw man.
Can you provide Biblical sources for this rhetoric?
Maybe you do not know the term "Bible Thumpers?" Where I am from, the term is idiomatic for a Christian whose means of proselytizing is to threaten non-believers with damnation. It is not a Biblical reference.
hey mean by "sin" anything you do that they don't like is evil and you will burn in Hell for it.
I don't do straw men.
You should probably go out and come in again, this is not a good start on your part.
I don't don't do "nice" very well either, so the snarkiness was not a good way to lead off.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Frira
I hear from many Christians that, whatever they choose to do, they are guaranteed forgiveness. What a self-serving faith-- and those people scare me.
*Sigh*
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" ~ Romans 6:1-2
Frira was talking about modern-day people, not some ancient historical people, so how could there be a Biblical source for something she has personally witnessed? I find this posting of yours concerning. I agree with Frira that you need to take a step back. This is not a good way to make friends.
Can you provide Biblical sources for this rhetoric?