My Deepest Guilt

The Situation:

My husband and I were blessed with the birth of Our daughter eight and a halfish years ago. For the first four and a half years, We had such a harmonious, loving dynamic, that there were occasions that She told strangers (waitresses, etc.) We were “The Awesome Family.” We even had total strangers, as well as friends and family, come up to Us and tell Us how good We were with Her.

Our financial world had collapsed and, rather than take Her into homelessness that was caused by an error in a DSS office – mentioning that once I had had a 401K but it was gone and that’s why I was there (dear Gods, all of You, *I* was actually desperate for help; how did THAT happen??? - My life was going up, Up, UP…and then, no jobs, ad infinitum feared at THIS point) We sent the cherished center of Our family to live with My sister until We were stable. (The saga of years trying to get Her back is a whole story in itself.)

Proving that I didn’t have a 401k became problematic as I could not find the closing statement and the company I had worked for had been gobbled by corporate America, leaving no One who knew how to help Me. I had long been gone before the takeover. So I called, with minutes draining away, as I went in a telephone circle. I ended with the first number I had called. I wrote a letter that went somewhere, who knows – never heard, and off We sent Her “for Her protection.”

But that’s not My deepest guilt – just a gross miscalculation. Oh, no.

The biggest reason They gave for taking Our shining star from us was that My husband laid more than a chaste and gentle touch to Her flesh. The chaste wasn’t the problem – He connected in anger three times:

The first – She began hitting and kicking Him and after raising His voice and telling Her to desist (essentially) He popped Her upper arm and said, “See. It hurts, doesn’t it?”

The second – a wee too harsh, He admits – but understandable in that two second window while Our “OMG!” just goes wild – when She appeared out of Her room smeared with Her own feces. He slapped Her cheek three times and made Her take a cold shower. (First, last and only time THAT happened.)

And once that gave HIM an “OMG!” moment and didn’t hurt Her at all – He pushed Her against the collar bone and She landed on Her posterior. For no reason other than at 3 ½ She was going too slowly, and in that OMG! He castigated Himself. He castigates Himself to this day.

But anyway, about MY guilt…

You see…though not My daughter, nor Her “New family” – who used Her words to heavily influence the whole trial, words based on withholding over two hours of family video of the three of Us (which is just a small chunk of what We got) that was representative of half Her life – have EVER accused ME of, is abuse (except maybe implied in letting Her NEAR this “monster” of a father), what They don’t know is…

Ok… I have hit My daughter. There. I said it.

Ah. Yeah, You probably want to know how and why. (If not, byebye [smile])

Well, I guess I am the lesser abuser. I only hit Her twice. The first time She was around two years old. I walked into the bathroom and found Her with two bottles of baby shampoo emptied on the floor (which was wall-to-wall carpet) (five minutes I was busy in the other room; how do kids DO it!?!) and I reached down, caught Her under the arms, pulled Her to My chest and whacked Her well-diapered bottom with the palm of My right hand. Three times. Yes.

She did not seem to be in pain, but She WAS surprised. I looked Her in the eye with a scowl, set Her aside to watch and all the while I was cleaning the mess up, I was explaining about how, not only was it a waste of shampoo – which, even though I was working at the time, was an expense that drained – Her actions had caused this problem for Me and that dumping things like this was generally not accepted because Others had to clean up the mess.

Perhaps I was too harsh.

And then there was the time She hit Me… Over and over She began to slap Me, laughing all the while. It was around the time My husband finally showed Her that Others had a right to self defense, and why – He had tolerated that behavior too long and I had intervened with My usual punishment, tickling, and that usually led to moving on.

Daddy never used the tickling, but I was notorious for saying things like, “You’re gonna get a ticklin’ if You’re not careful!” Daddy would raise His voice, louder and louder, and when He got loud enough She would cry, and stop hitting. Not the perfect solution – I like Mine better – but He did not raise a hand as a pretty strict rule.

In retrospect I think She was turning this normal phase of childhood away from Daddy and onto Mommy.

So She started slapping Me and I said, “We don’t hit people.” She continued, and in that voice of the stern mother, I asked, “Do I have to tickle You, young lady?” She continued, and so…the tickling began. I had found that it usually took around 10 second of tickling to do the job, and so I tickled Her. For about 10 seconds.

I let off and smiled at Her and to My surprise, She started right up again. Slap, slap, slap, to My cheeks, neck and shoulders. Oh, I was gonna tickle! I tickled and I tickled. TWICE as long as usual! About 20 seconds.

And again, as soon as I stopped, She was at it again. Ok. A minute. She gets a whole minute of tickling. (I had never before come close to a minute – always, 20 second did it.)

And She got at least 60 seconds of tickling. Oh yes. Maybe even 65.

And, yes. The slapping started, once more. At this point I had the desire to defend Myself, but of course, I did not want to hurt My beloved. Fending off slaps I noted that She was wearing pants that cut off at the knee and Her calf was bare. With My right hand I smacked Her with as much force and in similar manner as I might if I had to move a hot quart saucepan across the burner an inch or so, with My bare hand on the side of the pot, not on the handle.

Slap!

There it was. I had hit her.

She burst into tears like I have never otherwise seen Her do – which in MY self castigation made Me feel terrible! Oh geez, I actually HURT her! – when She sobbed, “Mommy! You said You would never hit Me!” And so again, She was surprised.

Holding back My own tears, knowing I had indeed broken a promise, I tersely said, “Now You know why We don’t hit People.”

And then I hugged Her and We cried and cuddled and moved on to the laughter that was Our norm.

I know, I was hideously abusive, but… That was shortly before She was four, and the behavior stopped, never seen again in Our family.

So I guess it’s a good thing that They – My sister, Her entourage, My father-in-law and His wife (My husband’s scorned step-mother to whom My family, et al, has been listening from 3000 miles away) – took Her away from Us.

We are indeed horrible parents.

reply to post by Amaterasu


Explanation: OI! Stop wallowing in self pity!

Personal Disclosure: I have never judged you for how you raised your children! And self assessing is an ethical fail! If I was your lawyer Id recommend you take the 5th and stick to that ok!

P.S. Wait damnit... all good things come to those who wait for the opportunity to arise... but be aware ok, You must strike whilst the iron is hot!

You turned her hitting people into a game. It's any wonder she continued. Imagine her surprise when you and Dad hit her back.
I have pushed one of my sons out of my way (he took a couple of steps back but didn't fall, it wasn't very forceful) when I was rushing around busy and I was a bit grumpy. I felt bad about that and apologised.
Other than that I have never laid a hand on my boys. What do you think gives you the right to hit another human being.
Your husband should be able to deal with your daughter WITHOUT hitting her. This is basic parenting.
Slapping a child's face isn't alright! It is abuse. To have any hope of redeeming yourself and being a better parent with hopefuly some access to your daughter, you need to realise the reasons that your daughter is no longer in your care are very valid reasons. If my ex and his girlfriend dealt with our children this way I would be in court seeking an apprehended violence order and full custody.

I was once in an abusive relationship, occasionally things would go alright without incident for a while. That doesn't mean I wasn't in an abusive relationship. It just meant that he didn't hit me every day.

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Explanation: OI! Stop wallowing in self pity!

Personal Disclosure: I have never judged you for how you raised your children! And self assessing is an ethical fail! If I was your lawyer Id recommend you take the 5th and stick to that ok!

P.S. Wait damnit... all good things come to those who wait for the opportunity to arise... but be aware ok, You must strike whilst the iron is hot!

Not so much wallowing as releasing frustration. [smile]

You know I think of ATS as My family these days (I get a lot more support here, clearly), so I come to ATS when I need that caring and camaraderie. And yes... Patience and striking while the iron is hot somethimes are mutually exclusive. LOL!

I'm really sorry, I think perhaps I was a bit harsh in my delivery.
I hope things work out in the near future. Perhaps a parenting class may show you and your husband are serious about regaining custody.
Keep your chin up, you and your husband are not horrible parents from what I can tell.
It must be a very hard thing you've both had to endure.
Some counselling may help you both through this difficult time.
I am no authority on the subject and I've behaved without a lot of compassion. Please forgive my previous post.

Originally posted by Bee2010
You turned her hitting people into a game. It's any wonder she continued. Imagine her surprise when you and Dad hit her back.
I have pushed one of my sons out of my way (he took a couple of steps back but didn't fall, it wasn't very forceful) when I was rushing around busy and I was a bit grumpy. I felt bad about that and apologised.
Other than that I have never laid a hand on my boys. What do you think gives you the right to hit another human being.
Your husband should be able to deal with your daughter WITHOUT hitting her. This is basic parenting.
Slapping a child's face isn't alright! It is abuse. To have any hope of redeeming yourself and being a better parent with hopefuly some access to your daughter, you need to realise the reasons that your daughter is no longer in your care are very valid reasons. If my ex and his girlfriend dealt with our children this way I would be in court seeking an apprehended violence order and full custody.

Wow. Four and a half years and thrice for Him and twice for Me. And the behaviors ceased.

And no. We did NOT "make it a game." It is hardly "making it a game" distracting Her with tickling. She only did that once with Me - after Her Dad popped her on the shoulder (and BTW, at NO time were marks left).

And if slapping once in four and a half years under unusual circumstances is "abuse" and not a learning experience (for both parties), I'll eat My hat.

I was once in an abusive relationship, occasionally things would go alright without incident for a while. That doesn't mean I wasn't in an abusive relationship. It just meant that he didn't hit me every day.

And I say it is NOT an abusive relationship with no pattern, with only three incidents in four and a half years. It is part of the parenting learning curve.

Originally posted by Bee2010
I'm really sorry, I think perhaps I was a bit harsh in my delivery.
I hope things work out in the near future. Perhaps a parenting class may show you and your husband are serious about regaining custody.
Keep your chin up, you and your husband are not horrible parents from what I can tell.
It must be a very hard thing you've both had to endure.
Some counselling may help you both through this difficult time.
I am no authority on the subject and I've behaved without a lot of compassion. Please forgive my previous post.

Well, no. It's too late for that. The court, without interviewing OUR witnesses (and We have many who will say They were highly impressed with Our skills - including Her preschool teachers), without letting US testify, took away Our parental rights and My sister adopted Our daughter.

I don't think We needed counseling. I know We did not need the lies told by the mother-in-law and Her hen-pecked husband (My father-in-law). We needed a fair trial. We needed what We could not afford.

EDIT to add: Forgiveness granted. [smile]

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by Bee2010
I'm really sorry, I think perhaps I was a bit harsh in my delivery.
I hope things work out in the near future. Perhaps a parenting class may show you and your husband are serious about regaining custody.
Keep your chin up, you and your husband are not horrible parents from what I can tell.
It must be a very hard thing you've both had to endure.
Some counselling may help you both through this difficult time.
I am no authority on the subject and I've behaved without a lot of compassion. Please forgive my previous post.

Well, no. It's too late for that. The court, without interviewing OUR witnesses (and We have many who will say They were highly impressed with Our skills - including Her preschool teachers), without letting US testify, took away Our parental rights and My sister adopted Our daughter.

I don't think We needed counseling. I know We did not need the lies told by the mother-in-law and Her hen-pecked husband (My father-in-law). We needed a fair trial. We needed what We could not afford.

EDIT to add: Forgiveness granted. [smile]

edit on 6/16/2011 by Amaterasu because: add

My initial response was more about me than it was about you. I had a #ty upbringing, not your fault.
I'm Australian so I don't know how family court works over there.
Can you not appeal where the evidence was unfairly discarded?
I realise this is probably expensive though speak to another lawyer if you can.
Your best bet is to show how the process was unfair or how the judge was biased.
I am a law student but like I said, I'm in Australia, thus I am studying Australian law.

Originally posted by Bee2010
My initial response was more about me than it was about you. I had a #ty upbringing, not your fault.
I'm Australian so I don't know how family court works over there.
Can you not appeal where the evidence was unfairly discarded?
I realise this is probably expensive though speak to another lawyer if you can.
Your best bet is to show how the process was unfair or how the judge was biased.
I am a law student but like I said, I'm in Australia, thus I am studying Australian law.

I understand. I assure You, Our daughter was growing happy, healthy, loved deeply, well protected, cherished.

We are under a double whammy: We would have had far greater opportunity to fight this if We did not live 3000 miles from My sister, if We lived in the same state. And We would have appealed - except that I get $58 a month, and My husband is an inventor and part time dishwasher. No WAY We could afford a lawyer, and no interstate legal assistance is available.

The adoption has gone through. I don't think there is recourse since We could not appeal in the 60 days We had.

reply to post by Amaterasu


Explanation: Hey Love... smell these flowers please!



Because I know you feel very much like this ...



Personal Disclosure: Now... while your waiting for opportunity to avail itself unto you OL recommends you come chat to me in chat asap ok!

reply to post by OmegaLogos


Thanks, OL. I tried to get into chat but all I got was a gray screen. [shrug] Not sure what is wrong, but it may have something to do with some firewall software My husband installed.

When He is home from work, I can ask Him.