Vancouver fans riot in the streets after loss of Stanely Cup to Bruins

So, fascinating discussion, guys, but maybe a new thread for it since it doesnt really relate the the riots at all?

Again, the riots were allowed to happen to give reason for more money for police, stronger, more unified regional police force, etc.

Back to the OP, this riot was caused by a group of drunk idiots that saw an oppurtunity to cause mayhem. Sheeple followed and made a bad situation worse. There was no noble cause, there was no ideal that they were rioting for. It was purely self indulgence.

There is no way to prevent this, wether the ENTIRE Vancouver police force was there or not. The idiots would have just moved to locations where there was less police presence.

Same thing in Edmonton, same thing in Montreal...same thing for almost every sport related riot.

To blame everybody else for these idiots is a claim that we can't not and should not be responsible for our own actions.

I was on Whyte Ave when Edmonton had their 2006 temper tantrum. I (and many others) had no problems goind straight up to the police line, showing that we did not want to be there, and leaving without molestation by the police. The rioters on the other hand were angry to the point of violence that we did not want to participate in their 'fun'.

Boston deserved to win; Thomas stopped everything that Vancouver threw at him. Canucks scored how many goals in the series, eight? Don't expect to win too many Stanley Cup Finals when you score an average of one goal per game in the series.

As for the riots, it's amazing what a few agent provocateurs, some broken windows and a few burned cars can mean financially in additional tax revenue for the police $tate. These riots are completely overblown by the disreputable and corrupt media for only one rea$on.

You mean all those expensive city surveillance cameras and the beefing up of police resources weren't able to stop these riots? That's okay. Let's pay for a bunch more which will be just as useless and inept during the next induced riot.

Originally posted by peck420


There is no way to prevent this, wether the ENTIRE Vancouver police force was there or not.

Not true at all. And if you think about what you are saying, it would imply the entire VPD are completely incapable of stopping a small handful of people from rioting. Quite pathetic, wouldnt you say?
OF COURSE the police can stop a riot. But only when they manage a crowd better than this.

The idiots would have just moved to locations where there was less police presence.

Right, like AWAY FROM THE DOWNTOWN CORE WHERE ALL THE PEOPLE ARE!

To blame everybody else for these idiots is a claim that we can't not and should not be responsible for our own actions.

Conflation. Look it up.

I am not apologizing for the idiots who did this. I'm saying that art of the equation was the police who, as a group, were ordered to allow this to happen because it will give even MORE reason for more money for cops, and a larger, regional police force they have been itching to implement for YEARS. This is all qute well-known to people who live in the GVRD They have been trying to implement a regional police force for years. And now they are using this as an example of WHY they need it (they say it would give them more police)

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds
Not true at all. And if you think about what you are saying, it would imply the entire VPD are completely incapable of stopping a small handful of people from rioting. Quite pathetic, wouldnt you say?
OF COURSE the police can stop a riot. But only when they manage a crowd better than this.

Until the riots starts the police can not do anything. No one has broken any laws. If the police had done something prior to the riot, this thread would be the same as all the threads after the Edmonton riots. All about how heavy handed the police are, how we live in a police state...blah, blah, blah.

Until a riot starts the police have no justification for doing anything. Once the riot is started they are blamed for not being psychic.

Right, like AWAY FROM THE DOWNTOWN CORE WHERE ALL THE PEOPLE ARE!

Great, then just like in other riots, they can start raiding occupied homes as opposed to unoccupied (for the most part) business'. The people that live just off Whyte Ave in Edmonton were the only people that supported the police due specifically to their diligence in keeping the rioters away from homes. Contrary to what our media portrayed, the rioters tried there best to expand the riot as large as possible.

Conflation. Look it up.

What is conflated? That I and only I are responsible for my own actions.

Personal responsibilty, look it up.

I am not apologizing for the idiots who did this. I'm saying that art of the equation was the police who, as a group, were ordered to allow this to happen because it will give even MORE reason for more money for cops, and a larger, regional police force they have been itching to implement for YEARS. This is all qute well-known to people who live in the GVRD They have been trying to implement a regional police force for years. And now they are using this as an example of WHY they need it (they say it would give them more police)

And I say complete BS. If it was about budget and only budget the riot would still be going. The police chief would be calling for help from the Canadian Forces while claiming that he's is too underfunded and under staffed to do anything about the riot at all.

The Vancouver police, if anything, proved that they have the capability required to put down riots as they are. Not a very good technique if you are arguing for a larger budget.

Everytime something happens in Canada or the US, this forum lights up in justifications for how it is always somebody elses fault.

No it isn't

If the people involved in the riot had acted as people are supposed to in a civilised socitey, there would have been no riot, and therefore, no police presence required at all. It is only thorugh peoples lack of respect and responsibility that we have problems like this.

How is that Vancouver can host an event that draws a similar crowd (119,000) ever year with no incident?

Vancouver grandprix is held annually, has similar attendance, has a similar land area to work with, yet, no riots.

The only difference is the average age of the attendant and the amount of alcohol consumed...

Originally posted by peck420

Until the riots starts the police can not do anything. No one has broken any laws. If the police had done something prior to the riot, this thread would be the same as all the threads after the Edmonton riots. All about how heavy handed the police are, how we live in a police state...blah, blah, blah.

Again, not true. The VPD actually allowed many of the actions that preceded the actual 'riots'. I'm guessing you arent actually from vancouver, or you would know this. The reports from the media and citizens are extensive that even prior to the end of the game people were throwing bottles and starting fights with cops. The VPD sat back and allowed this to happen, instead of stopping it when it was mere a handful of people. Allowing these few, isolated incidents of violence to occur sent a message to the rest f the public that such actions would be tolerated. This engendered even further violence.

Until a riot starts the police have no justification for doing anything. Once the riot is started they are blamed for not being psychic.

Again, not the case. I suspect you dont really know the specifics here and are just blindly defending the police without knowing the specfics of this 'riot'.

The Vancouver police, if anything, proved that they have the capability required to put down riots as they are. Not a very good technique if you are arguing for a larger budget.

That's a poorly thought-out theory. The COULDNT put out the riots. And they ARE saying they need more money and authority.

Everytime something happens in Canada or the US, this forum lights up in justifications for how it is always somebody elses fault.

You keep trying to claim that, but I am not saying it's 'somebody else's fault'. I;m saying that the evidence shows that the police ALLOWED these idiots to riot. That doesnt 'excuse' the idiots. It points out the larger context that ALLOWED this to occur.

reply to post by peck420


You are displaying a complete imbalance.

The police were the ones throwing the party, they work for the city. there were police checkpoints at every train station, and at every gate. They threw a party they later claim they could not handle????

They shut down liquor stores in the area early. Why?? you think maybe they saw this coming??

City and police knew exactly what was going to happen. City hall would never have gone along with it if the Police were not able to assure them that everything would be under control.

Police claimed to have control, then they didn't take control. That is a complete failure, some might see it as negligent. The city should have to pay for damages to business not insurance companies who i hope see this a little more clearly than you do and go after those that are truly responsible.

There are no shortage of high horse heroes here. You are no different than any of those people on the ground, you just get to claim sainthood because non of your shinanigans were ever caught on film.

The post riot linch mob seems to be more excited and possibly dangerous than the riots themselves.

YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL!!!

Originally posted by peck420
How is that Vancouver can host an event that draws a similar crowd (119,000) ever year with no incident?

Vancouver grandprix is held annually, has similar attendance, has a similar land area to work with, yet, no riots.

The only difference is the average age of the attendant and the amount of alcohol consumed...

When is the last time you have been here???

the grand prix has not been in vancouver for almost a decade

Originally posted by seeker11
Why?? Why are people idiots and riot because of the loss of a game.
It's just a game! Things like this have to stop! All it does is prove that we need supervision by the police and government because we don't know how to behave ourselves.

Live Video
abclocal.go.com...

Unhappy Vancouver Canucks fans are taking out their anger downtown at losing the Stanley Cup to the Boston Bruins in Game 7, flipping at least two cars and burning another in a burgeoning riot.

www.news1130.com...

Maybe they weren't rioting because of the hockey game, if you can stretch your mind outside of the news report you read? Maybe the people had other things to riot about? Why have you decided to believe everything you read in a completely controlled mass media? They are many many things to riot about, and behave ourselves? Are you serious?

One day you may wake up to the fact that your life has been completely robbed from you and you may decide to join a riot. It is unsettling to see humans in real form isn't it? Some cars got burned and windows smashed, big deal.

Originally posted by evolvetime


Maybe they weren't rioting because of the hockey game, if you can stretch your mind outside of the news report you read? Maybe the people had other things to riot about? Why have you decided to believe everything you read in a completely controlled mass media? They are many many things to riot about, and behave ourselves? Are you serious?

One day you may wake up to the fact that your life has been completely robbed from you and you may decide to join a riot. It is unsettling to see humans in real form isn't it?

Are you implying you think there was a political reasoning behind this idiotic action? Based on what?

Some cars got burned and windows smashed, big deal.

Somehow I doubt you would say that if it were your property.

reply to post by evolvetime


You're kidding me right???? The kids they found who were part of the mess were bragging about it and posting about how awesome they were for stealing and looting crap and beating up the cops. Yeah sounds like they were really rioting about something important. Have you looked at the photos? Have you done YOUR research? I think not.

If this was about rioting because of something that mattered then I would think differently, however this was clearly not the case.

ETA I also watched it happen live, and had friends who got caught in the mess. What do you have?

seeker 11 you so get what I'm saying...thanks....

I'm going to change the subject a little and go with what is prob going to happen in UK with Olympics 2012...believe it or not - everyone was holding their breath with the Royal Wedding recently...There were threats of disruption , violence etc...as there is with the impending Olympics and the Queens Golden jubilee the year after. we live in troubled times...people are broke and on poverty line, banks going bust...boom and bust housing market..., global financial crisis....and if you think this is going to go away anytime soon then be my guest.

So then we have a generation that were told that it wasn't an issue to be late for school, they were labelled with ADHD, Autism, Aspergers...all excuses for bad behaviour, anarchy...whatever....gave them excuses all the time to be lazy, and have high expectations...Parents, and teachers filling in endless forms for making excuses..assessments by practitioners having to tick boxes and meet key targets...
Then it gives this generation the excuse to run riot, threaten society and do whatever they feel like it....no focus...just mindless violence...and this my friends is the result of the last 20 yrs.....no discipline, no boundaries...and we will pay the price time and time again....and it will get worse.....the 'don't get it generation' as said before which will hold everyone to ransom each time there is a major event...they thrive on it! ..I know people in this age group who find it a total thrill...
Basically we should have been in situation of more control in last 20 yrs as a lot of us wanted to work.....mainly to maintain a good lifestyle (nothing wrong with that)...but realistically at the expense of sometimes giving the kids too much freedom.....please do not get me wrong - there';s a lot of great kids out there...but Google Gen Y's because they are a 'one off'......personally that's why we are getting these problems...and yes I know this happened way back...but globally this is getting worse in this socio-age group...they really don't care....

Should anyone get what I am trying to convey as above

legalcareers.about.com...

Just another side...I hope mods don't post these as off topic because I think it explains a lot of why we have this mentality these days towards society and how we interact whether it be sports or otherwise

www.thestar.com...

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

I am not apologizing for the idiots who did this. I'm saying that art of the equation was the police who, as a group, were ordered to allow this to happen because it will give even MORE reason for more money for cops, and a larger, regional police force they have been itching to implement for YEARS. This is all qute well-known to people who live in the GVRD They have been trying to implement a regional police force for years. And now they are using this as an example of WHY they need it (they say it would give them more police)

I think you are wrong. The mayor didn't allocate enough money because he thought a riot wouldn't happen after setting up a giant screen party on Georgia with 100,000 people. If you watched the live press conference with the chief of police holding Q&A, clearly you can see he was trying to avoid answering directly about the money and the mayor.

Originally posted by FlySolo

Originally posted by incrediblelousminds

I am not apologizing for the idiots who did this. I'm saying that art of the equation was the police who, as a group, were ordered to allow this to happen because it will give even MORE reason for more money for cops, and a larger, regional police force they have been itching to implement for YEARS. This is all qute well-known to people who live in the GVRD They have been trying to implement a regional police force for years. And now they are using this as an example of WHY they need it (they say it would give them more police)

I think you are wrong. The mayor didn't allocate enough money because he thought a riot wouldn't happen after setting up a giant screen party on Georgia with 100,000 people. If you watched the live press conference with the chief of police holding Q&A, clearly you can see he was trying to avoid answering directly about the money and the mayor.

But that's EXACTLY my point. They are going to say (and already are saying) that they need more cops, more money for things like this in the future. They want a regional police force.

It is interesting to see how people are dealing with this and how many have taken it upon themselves to police their neighbors. Taken from the facebook group. www.facebook.com...

Some people are taking it upon themselves to target these peoples family members and tarnish their names. It's interesting to see how quickly and easily people will be to give up their neighbors, friends, other community members. Let me say this, I 100% agree with the people who were involved being brought to justice, what I do not agree with is targeting the family members for revenge. Also some people are tagging people who it isn't even clear that they were doing anything wrong in the photos, just for having been there. I agree with the first quote below. Not so much the second.

I agree with this page in posting photo's and video so that those responsible can be held accountable.........BUT and I say this very loud, when did we become a lynch mob. We have to leave it up to the courts to decide what is the right punishment. If we don't and we take it upon ourselves to determine what that might be we are no better. We also have to be careful of the pictures that are posted as not everything is as it appears. With computer and technology, pictures can be altered to get someone you may not like into serious trouble. We must as a community come together to make sure those responsible are punished but that is not up to the creators of these pages everyone in this country is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Please share - our governments need to know that we will not stand for riots - all involved need to be held accountable. Tell government we support the use of all available means to identify the criminals. A few bleeding hearts are getting a lot of media attention by saying that using photos shot of the riot should not be used against the rioters, nor should the photos be compared against drivers license data bases.

"Tell government we support the use of all available means to identify the criminals. "
I wonder if they understand the extent of this request.

reply to post by seeker11


I agree. Its a very unique thing, the way these peoples faces were captured with readily available personal media devices. Its a good lesson in civics, brought to you buy facebook, the new public commons. People need to re-learn the difference between justice and revenge.

Conversely, the fact that so many of these peoples actions WERE caught is wonderful. It changes the dynamic of these events a lot, and maybe gives an opportunity to unmask whoever these provocateurs are.

Fascinating, cutting edge issue, really.