A message from Elenin

reply to post by DJW001


Read my post, I am not disagreeing with anyone suggesting it is apparent retrograde motion. I AM saying it suffered this over the course of those co-ordinates whereas this other bloke wants to deny there is any motion whatsoever. Thats all.

LightAssasin

You are going in the wrong direction

I originally picked alfa1 up on this in that the diagram he supplied of Elenin's orbit path DID NOT include the date you specified as a turning date.

Here is the pic:



I was later referring to the above image when I said it did not change direction at the dates you specified

If you have a look at the image above, does it show turning dates that you specified? No.

So, it's now up to alfa1 et al to tell us why the above image does not include the turning dates that you have now shown

I'm curious, to say the least.

Cheers

JS

PS: It's one of my pet HATES when people lie and I can tell you right now - I am definitely not one of them.

Originally posted by LightAssassin
reply to post by DJW001

 

Read my post, I am not disagreeing with anyone suggesting it is apparent retrograde motion. I AM saying it suffered this over the course of those co-ordinates whereas this other bloke wants to deny there is any motion whatsoever. Thats all.

Originally posted by jumpspace
So, it's now up to alfa1 et al to tell us why the above image does not include the turning dates that you have now shown

Well the answer there would be that the site where I grabbed that image from has made a mistake somehow somewhere.

I think the site was this one...
RiseEarth
Just a bad reference I guess. The original seems to have been taken from some youtube video.

In any case the date wasnt important to me. I wanted to show that the idea of comet Elenin doing a turn and moving east then west back and forth was not unexpected, but a normal event. The image did that. The actual dates on the image being wrong, well then yeah, but its not important to the original discussion of retrograde motion.

Apologies then Jumpspace, I have misunderstood you.

I am going to plot the whole 2 months worth of motion and post it up here.

I was just looking at the constellation of Leo (where Elenin is supposed to be right now) on Google Sky, then I clicked on the "Infrared" button and this huge object appeared.

Could someone please explain this:
Large object where Elenin is, visible in Google Sky

reply to post by jonnynature

I was just looking at the constellation of Leo (where Elenin is supposed to be right now) on Google Sky, then I clicked on the "Infrared" button and this huge object appeared.

Could someone please explain this:

Google sky is not in real time. I see several candidates for the object in the IRAS catalog, but my eyes just aren't good enough to narrow it down:
www.archive.org.../n25/mode/2up

No problem LightAssasin

I am still curious though as to why the ephemeris from the 18th Jan 2011 is so far out regarding the turning date. Their turning date was early to mid September sometime.

I'd be keen to hear from A1/DJW/NGC if you're there...what do you reckon is going on? Why was the ephemeris for the 18th Jan 2011 that far out regarding the turning date?

I know you guys can answer this one

Cheers

JS

Originally posted by LightAssassin
Apologies then Jumpspace, I have misunderstood you.

I am going to plot the whole 2 months worth of motion and post it up here.

Originally posted by jonnynature
I was just looking at the constellation of Leo (where Elenin is supposed to be right now) on Google Sky, then I clicked on the "Infrared" button and this huge object appeared.

Could someone please explain this:
Large object where Elenin is, visible in Google Sky

Oh, stop lying. We all know that picture is from 2007 co-ordinates. And as it was there in 2007 and still there now it's not moving. It the carbon star remnant CW Leonis. Now punch in the real co-ordinates of where it is now and tell me what you see.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by jonnynature

 

I was just looking at the constellation of Leo (where Elenin is supposed to be right now) on Google Sky, then I clicked on the "Infrared" button and this huge object appeared.

Could someone please explain this:

Google sky is not in real time. I see several candidates for the object in the IRAS catalog, but my eyes just aren't good enough to narrow it down

It's CW Leonis, a carbon star that happens to be one of the brightest stars in infrared in the night sky (it's the brightest infrared star other than the sun at 5 um wavelength). The image comes from the IRAS all-sky survey, so the actual date the image was recorded was in 1983. Google created their panoramic using IRAS data in 2007, hence the copyright date. The image itself is much older than that, and it is still in the same place in other more recent infrared sky surveys.

To see for yourself, go here:
skyview.gsfc.nasa.gov...
Type in "CW Leonis" in the "coordinates or source" box and then shift-select all the images from the infrared sky surveys 2mass, iris, and iras. 2MASS shows a very bright star at those coordinates, getting brighter as wavelength gets longer (do note, 2MASS images have much smaller fields of view than IRAS but the coordinates are the same). The IRIS images are simply a reprocessing of the original IRAS images, and you can see that's where google drew their images from as you can see the one that has the "black sphere" halo surrounding cw leonis. This is a processing artifact not present in the original IRAS images below it. If I remember correctly, microsoft WWT offers the original IRAS images and therefore does not have this artifact. In summary, this is why you always get the raw images from the original sources when doing research, you don't rely on google sky and other recompressed, stitched, second-hand sources.

Originally posted by jumpspace
Why was the ephemeris for the 18th Jan 2011 that far out regarding the turning date?

Could be that since it was still fairly soon after the discovery that the orbital data had that much uncertainty in it still, but more likely if it came from the "riseearth" article it's just a case of a conspiracy article providing bad information.

Yes, if you're looking for accurate orbital data for comets, you don't get it from any old internet site that could be posting rubbish. You get it from a reputable site.......

JPL Small Bodies Database

ssd.jpl.nasa.gov...

Minor Planet Centre

www.minorplanetcenter.net...

Nakano Notes (Syuichi Nakano)

www.oaa.gr.jp...

Comet Orbit Home Page (Kazuo Kinoshi-ta)

jcometobs.web.fc2.com...