How can everyone be having an economic crisis

Originally posted by siren8
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

But appreciate on a house is not a real monetary gain unless its realized. And when it depreciates, and the loss is "realized" like someone else explained to you, that money IS gone. The money from the housing bubble was flowing all through our economy before the bubble burst. People who bet against the housing bubble, (in various ways in the bond market) took private possession of very large sums of money when the bubble burst. Individual people gained billions and billions of dollars from the economic collapse. And banks and corporations have continued to make billions and billions of dollars in the aftermath. Its just that when too much money gets into too few hands, economies grind to a halt. Because the trickle down theory of economics is a big fat lie. All economies trickle up. Not down. And right now, too much wealth is being horded by too few people.

The housing buble was intentionally created. And no the money is not gone. The bank doesn't have it, but whoever they lent it to, they are spending it. On something. They gave the check to the people they bought the house from, and that keeps it circulating. The money is stil where it can be spent. Someone has the money, its just not the bank that lent it. I'm talking about money that has left the system. Is no longer circulating.

Ok don't know if this will help but here goes...

I buy a house (god wouldn't that be nice lol) for £200,000 in cash, I sell the property for £300,000, the person who buy's it from me manages to get a 100% mortgage from the bank (insignificant at this point), and I toddle off to buy myself a bigger property, for £300,000 in cash, happy days.....

But then Macdonalds build a restaurant at the end of my road, and now the property I bought for £300,000 has just been valued at £150,000 ! That means when I sell, unless Macdonalds moves out, if I sell I will only get back half the money that I used to buy it with, making me £150,000 less rich than I was before, so yes that money went somewhere alright, into the ether to cease to exsist (note how I am starting to rant as though I truely own ficticious property lmao).

so thats how money which did physically exsist can cease to exsist any longer, leaving me poorer, eventually I get too old to live in the property ( too many rooms to clean), and so accept my £150,000 but by now I find that being retired all that money is all I have, so I have to make it last, and be frugal, but its tough, so tough (whoa now I'm acting like I'm 70 odd?!), plus rents are so high, its not long before I find myself shopping in charity shops for my clothes, or rock bottom sale bargins, I try to help the economy out by spending, but I just can't afford things like I used to, so businesses make less money, because it isn't just me spending so little, its thousands of people just like me.

Make any sense ????

EDIT: Oh and I forgot to add, Macdonalds, eventually went out of business 2 years before I moved out of my ficticious house, something about going bust due to not being healthy enough for people to eat, plus the service sucked, because all they could afford to employ by the end of it were the previous benefit hoarders, who were pushed out to work against their will, but unfortunately were not socially adept enough to serve the wider public, on the plus side it did stand idle, but this just made the road I lived in an eyesore.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by lastidealist

 

Uhm sorry to disagree
It is all balance and someone's loss is someone's gain and regardless of how you manipulate the numbers or words or any fancy equation for the billions or trillions lost there were billions or trillions made from those that lost.
It is a game that has been played since the beginning and the recession was man made and it is your choice and free will to believe what they are telling and believe ALL these Wall Streeters and investors had billions in losses and did not make billions off the losses and were that stupid.
My one question is that if you or I did our job like this so poorly and cost our company billions, would you or I be bailed out and still keep your job? and ironically even depended upon to get everyone out of the mess they put everyone in the first place?
Would you keep these people on your payroll if they cost your company to go bankrupt? and give them more money and a bonus?
Why do they all have their jobs and bonuses if the money did disappear and was lost and they did lose billions and how do i get a job like that other than being a part of the game.
Are you aware of all the big players connections to each other or just coincidence?
I choose to be awake regardless of the pain and nightmares and i do not begrudge those that can not handle the truth and for those that believe ALL these people just simply made bad investments or just plain stupid and whaola a major crisis and still not held accountable and absurdly and ironically still entrusted with billions more then so be it and your faith in these people and the Regime i'm sure will fix the problem because they care about you and your family and lost a lot of sleep while spending their bonuses on vacation feeling guilty their incompetency and will not make the same mistakes again and will their their best so
Erm this doesn't happen again

Erm.. money does "vanish" .. when stock prices drop it's not a physical loss of money until it's sold for the current perceived value. When you look at your 401k and you see you own x amount of shares for y dollars that is not how much you actually have. It's how much you potentially have. If the prices drop and the shares are sold for less than the perceived highs then you see a "drop" the difference of the two prices, your perceived high value and the actual sold value is "lost".

There are numerous ways to "loose" money.

Some people lost money because corporations declared bankruptcy. If you owned stock in Black Rock, or Lehman, or one of the numerous banks that fell .. the price of your perceived high vs the settled value of the stock is "lost" value. Simply gone. No one has it.. it just vanishes into thin air. If we take Lehman for example you take the value of the stock, subtract the value of liability, minus the cost of debt restructuring, plus the offered price you end up with a very high negative value. So the liquidation of assets from furniture and office plants to assets like mortgages is calculated into the offer price .. Lehman if I'm not mistaken was given $3 a share.

reply to post by lastidealist


Well I'm sorry you don't know anything about the stock exchanges or how equity works.

What I said wasn't an opinion, it is fact.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I also stated fact as the crisis is man made
Why didn't you answer my questions about keeping these people on your payroll? and why they still got a bonus and still have their job? and if it was your company would you still employ them and give them a bonus?
Even if you go with your thoughts on the stock market as real then why are these men still left in their same position?
Regardless of the stocks losing money and money legitimately vanishing would you still employ those that directly caused the money to vanish? Is that good business practice? How many average Americans can perform their job so poorly and still be employed?
Can you explain why they got to keep their job with a bonus and took money out of the mouth's of the American people? If you or I did the same thing for a lot less money without a bonus would we still be able to keep the job on Wall Street?

reply to post by BlackStar99

Maybe you just stumbled upon the Ultimate Solution!

Simply force the Rich to spend what it would take to rid themselves of their wealth over the length of their lifetime! Since you cannot take it with you the only solution is to put it back into the World's economy. Hoarding is Hurting!

Anyone forced to spend $25,000 a day to keep up will quit this evil hoarding and manipulating!

Simple as pie!

reply to post by lastidealist

I also stated fact as the crisis is man made

Anything economic is man-made, perception made by man.

Why didn't you answer my questions about keeping these people on your payroll?

Probably because you didn't know how to quote the whole thing ran together?
Why did bankers keep their jobs? Because they are corrupt bastards and our corrupt bastards of politicians accepted it. Not a big mystery, and has nothing to do with the thread. Or anything I said for that matter.
Wealth vanishes, but it has nothing to do with how bankers were compensated after the bailouts. Technically speaking though in 2008, when the markets crashed, bonuses only would have gone to performing funds. Since 2008 funds have been performing, even as the rest of the economy collapses. This was due to the "capital infusions" from the Federal Reserve pushing liquid cash and assets into banks which used those funds to inflate the equities market.

Sooooooo you either don't know what I'm talking about, or what you're talking about, or both.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Ty that's what i was getting at= corruption
I believe the topic is how can everyone be having a financial crisis and my basic reply is because it was man made and corruption so how is this off topic?
This is my opinion as to why everyone is having a financial crisis regardless of all the fancy terminology or how the stock market works and the David Copperfield effect.
So with corruption means somebody made out on the deal and thus money in their pockets taken from the peons and that's how Wall Street works.
Regardless of how the stock market works it is manipulated so money does vanish on purpose but with that being said there were those that made a lot of money off of the supposed "vanishing money".

reply to post by Rockpuck


BTW pompous and arrogant people is what's wrong with the world and this seems to be the approach to belittle people and feed the ego which in turn makes up for other short comings.
I am glad i don't know everything cause It would really suck to know everything and have nothing left to learn.
The one thing i do know is there are very evil people manipulating the world and causing the world wide economic crisis.
Oh yeah Hiram abiff might have something to do with it.
Nice avatar and cool little boys club you guys got and i am open to you teaching me what it is your 1000's of years are trying to accomplish or have accomplished to make the world a better place (other than insuring certain positions of power and control are held by masons) or it's just about poker games and hanging with the guys.

reply to post by lastidealist


As I pointed out.. "everyone" is not having the same crisis. Only certain economies are. Economies that didn't know how to manage themselves, or else are on a natural path to obscurity because of their own actions and inactions. The "vanishing" effect of wealth is no coordinated and it is not manipulated, it's a law of economics. More of "our" wealth, that is you and me and about 95% of Americans was in home equity, not the equity markets. You have to understand that the "wealth" that we see in everyday life, what we base our financial well being around is not physical, it's an illusion that can either vanish or appear in the blink of an eye.



Saying that someone is pulling the strings and somehow orchestrating the entire crisis is akin to saying "I have no idea what's going on but clearly the boogie-man is behind it"

reply to post by Rockpuck


I apologize for any disrespect
to say that people are not manipulating things then why do the Bildebergers first refuse to acknowledge they exist and then meet in secret every year?
These are the wealthiest men in the world whose families have been in power for a long long time.
Also there was a coup in 1934 that General Smedley Butler (wrote the book "war is a racket") brought out and these people were taken to court but nothing was done and then the FED was created which we all know is run by these men and is a private bank that OWN the USA and other countries so to say these people are not manipulating things and pulling the strings i find hard to believe otherwise.
Why would Eisenhower warn us about entities wanting to take over?
Why was Prescott Bush not tried and hung for treason when it is fact that he and Thyssen were in business with Hitler and had $3 million dollars in an account for Hitler in a New York bank which was his and they both were selling the gas to Hitler that was used to exterminate the Jews during world war II?
His only punishment was to get out of banking and into oil which i think he did pretty good with.
George Bush senior was in business with Bin Laden And family) and he was even invited to the White House and the former director of the CIA had no idea he was entertaining a mad man and criminal? How did he go from business partner and friend and what made Bin Laden all of the sudden make America his number one enemy and turn on the Bush family? Why would he wait to attack America when son Bush was in office? He was not that stupid or arrogant not to see this would bring the all out wrath of America upon him and his family and his people.
Daddy Bush was also running drugs from Columbia through Panama and used Noriega's government planes to do so as they are not subject to checks and when Bush denounced Noriega which he did not want to do (shoot the moon is a book about Bush and Noriega's drug relationship) and said he never even met the man so Noriega took out a full page ad showing him and Bush arm in arm.
It's no secret that the CIA is running drugs and arms (project gunwalker just for one example) and the Vietnam war and Afghan war is about control of drugs and since we invaded Afghanistan the heroin trade has increased.
Like i said i mean no disrespect and try as hard as it is at times to respect everyone and have compassion for my fellow man but there is to many things that go on to just say it's coincidence.
Also with millions of people in the USA what are the odds that 80% or more of all the presidents and most astronauts are Free Masons? Not to mention the Supreme court justices among other influential and controlling parties.
Also the same with the founders of America and the signers of the declaration of Independence.
There just seems to be to many secret societies and nepotism throughout the years not to believe there are agendas being carried out and wouldn't it be to their advantage to stay secret and hide their agenda, after all who would come right out in public and say who and what they are and what is their agenda?
If i had a plan to do something that was not moral or ethical i would be pretty foolish to tell people who i am and what i was up to.
These are just my thoughts and opinions and being in my fifties i am quite surprised at how many young men and women from 15 years of age on up believe the same thing and not just in the USA as i have traveled to over 15 countries and found the same thing with people of other cultures and societies.
"for in truth, all is myth, myth is all"