Understanding Women. A True Story.

There are many misconceptions concerning women these days. But I would like to add a bit about why that is, and how it came to be. Now if some want to personally attack anything I have to say, well thats fine, but I have the right to add my opinion, and will do so.

There is in fact undeniable truth to the fact that women have been oppressed for many thousands of years. From being the cause of sin (Eve) to what asking for rights, and to what we have today. Before there was the outrageous media, we were unhappy with the way we were treated, but had no way out. We lived the quite "Suzy Homemaker" lifestyle, and we were happy with it.

Then things changed. We saw magazines and television ads that told women they could be sexy, independent, and basically have it all. We over came this, and moved away from home, and our children. We now had 9-5 jobs, and t.v dinners to make up for the 4 course 3 hour cooked meals.

We were told by the media that our husbands would complain, and be angry, not because they wanted us to be home, and care for the home and the family, but because they were weights that held us down. They feared women and their success. And we listened.

We went on, even though women were not getting paid as much, we still worked, because ultimately we were doing the "independent" thing. We started clubs based on women discussing their lives, and wants and needs. We had ladies nights, book clubs, discussing books that favored the further independence of women, but silently and subconsciously bashed men.

At this point we were divided. Men nor women understood when it fully happened, but the divide was evident, scary, and loud. People began to look for others that made them happy, not the home, or the children. Men began torrid affairs, also contributing to the breakdown of the home. While the children watched.

Men would go into their sons rooms and say "Don't marry someone like your mother" look what she has done to us, while women would tell their daughters "Your dad did this to us. You cant trust men". We began a generation of women that thought men only cheated , while men thought that all women thought about was themselves and no one else.

We were lost. Kids drowned in custody battles, divorce, and broken homes. Tears, yelling, angry, and lack of communication was all they knew. Now here is the kicker......

THOSE KIDS WERE US !!!

We no longer try in relationships because we dont know how. All we know is what romance movies show us. What Oprah and the #1 selling magazines say about "How to trap a Man". And men have beer commercials, porn, and shows and movies that show that women are full of agendas, and only choose to RULE the man.

Everyday we are shown that showing skin is all men want. If your smart, thats a turn off. You have to be thin, and sexy, thats the only way to get a man. And women are shown that he has to be muscular, and have money and cars, because these are things that we deserve.

Sure that works. On t.v or the movies, so we "portray" something that we are not, and then we wonder why we cant get along.

Here's what I have come to realize about what men and women really want, but are afraid to say. (THIS BASED ON MY VIEWS!!)

Men want support, someone to tell them when things are tough that they have someone there for them, someone to back them up, and be supportive.

Women want.. the exact same things.

Women want someone they can trust to go out with their friends and not look at every other women, even though all their friends are doing it.

Men want..... the exact same things.

Men want to be able to do what they enjoy, without the "stereotype" of men dont want to be around women when they do the things they enjoy. For example video games, sports.

Women want... well, the difference her is that what women like to do they usually dont care for men to be around. If we want you there for shopping its because we CARE what YOU think.
Also note, that men go crazy for a women that is willing to learn about a sport, or video game, I was completely against it at one point, but learned it, and it was quite fun. Men, you can also do the same.
For this one compromise is important, but it is the media and entertainment business that told us that we are not supposed to enjoy each others hobbies.

We need to wake up from the slumber and bs that we are shown everyday, and realize that the same way you were taught to ride a bike, and learn to read is the same way that we are taught to purposely not get along. If there wasn't something inside of us that was fighting this indoctrination, NO ONE would actually be in a relationship.

Fight the lies, and deception. Deep down inside we are fully aware that we need each other, and love each other, and want to be with one another. Peel back what you were taught. Pin point when you think this happened, or take with someone you love, and be honest. For every man and every women that has been wronged there is a reason why they do what do today.

If a man cheats, hes probably been cheated on. If a women is hounding you about where you go and what you do, she has been lied to, and probably cheated on as well.

If you ask, just ask why? I am sure that there will be an answer that you never truly expected. We hurt, we all hurt, and have been hurt. We can mend the fallacy of what we allowed others to make us think. We can change it, make it better, reevaluate what we are and what we do, and how we do it. Communicate. Love. Compromise.

Peace, NRE.

The point being that we all actually have to act like adults instead of kids to make relationships work. We actually have to communicate and compromise.

At least, I think that's what you're getting at. I agree wholeheartedly. Thank you for a wonderful post.

reply to post by gnosticquasar


That was exactly what I was getting at thanks for understanding.

Peace, NRE.

Very nice thread actually. And too true for my liking!

Relationships are extremely difficult and painful now due to our societal dynamics and propaganda that infuses us with half-truths, prejudices, and outright lies.

I admit that my wife and I fight almost every day, arguing about something stupid or whatever. However we have been together for 7+ years now.

Really what it comes down to, is that you have to learn about yourself, I have found.
I had to learn to stop expecting instant love and compassion from the mother of my children, and she had to stop expecting that I am a Fascist.

I try very hard not to be fascist, but relationships do require a few rules and basic understandings to survive, and that is what almost tore us apart and it ended up being why we are still together.

We also agree that the children come first, and we constantly catch ourselves being self-centered and selfish towards them, and then try to correct that behavior.

I knew very well that the media has lied to me, and what I wanted in a relationship was highly idealistic and unrealistic. I wanted this type of ultimate perfect love that always catered to my every need. Boy was I selfish and conceited. And wrong.

There is no "ultimate perfect love", at least not here on Earth. But what we do have here is almost as good, it's a Love you have to fight for everyday. Something you have to work at and develop, something that requires tons of energy and time. That is the real love, but it isn't a fairy tale...

Things can get super rough. I know, sometimes I get so angry I hate my wife's guts to the max and think extremely deplorable thoughts. But I find within myself sorrow and remorse. So I apologize. I try to make things right. And I think that is why my stubborn wife stays with me. Because I try so hard to make things work.

My wife actually claims she prefers the homemaker lifestyle. She wants to stay at home with the kids. She dislikes most feminist rantings, although I catch her repeating them sometimes when she gets really really mad at me haha.

Here is the reason why my wife sees through the facade of "the Independent working woman".
Have you ever had a real job in real life? Is that independence ? Or is that wage slavery?

Exactly, it's wage slavery and someone else profits off your labors far more than you do, even though it was you that did the hard work. That isn't freedom women. That's pure slavery. I am a man and I cannot stand it one bit! I want to be a homemaker too sheesh! That's real freedom right there I tell you. No one to boss you around all day and treat you like scum.

Really it's about developing friendship and working out the problems that WILL and ALWAYS arise at every turn. If you can do that, you have it made.

By the way, the reason I think my wife is hot is because she IS really smart and can talk about anything on ATS or whatever. And her body is hot too so its a supreme combo!

Originally posted by gnosticquasar
The point being that we all actually have to act like adults instead of kids to make relationships work. We actually have to communicate and compromise.

At least, I think that's what you're getting at. I agree wholeheartedly. Thank you for a wonderful post.

edit on 5-6-2011 by gnosticquasar because: (no reason given)

Sometimes people will refuse to compromise.
They will even refuse to communicate effectively.

That is when a relationship is dead. Done for. Over.

The two elements you mentioned are extremely important in keeping a relationship alive.

you make some good points

after 27 years in what observers would call a successful marriage, amen to that

Love conquers all - its interesting that you can be happy when you love someone and give 100% of yourself and care for them first as is the essence of Love

Love is concerned more with what you give, not what you get - if you are waiting for soppy feelings to envelop you from the object of your affections, whilst angelic music plays - you will be waiting a long time

as soon as you take your eyes off that and start thinking about yourself first, and poor me this and that, you usually end up with issues

teach your kids to love, and the best way to do that, since they watch you night and day, is to love your spouse as a positive example

go get em!

I truly believe that if we were to return to our natural instincts we would see each other the way we are supposed to be. I do understand that its hard for us when we are constantly surrounded by nonsense, but our emotions can be returned as long as we take the time to know someone. Its not just about the new, but finding out about them and their past, as it does have alot to do with who we are today.

Peace, NRE.

Once you see there is a "battle of the sexes" propagated thru the media you realise its just one more dividing line of the people. I think sexism is just as much of a problem as racism or any other prejudice. I wish more people, men and women both, could see this. I have a very hard time finding a compatible woman for many reasons, most of which stemming from the issues stated in your post. Feminism in its current form is a joke. Since I'm not old enough to be there at the start of feminism I can't say at some point if it was a valiant movement focused on equality or not. But it certainly has gotten out of hand where it is no longer about equality but more about what special privileges women can get. This promotes the same inequality the movement was supposed to be against. It just adds more fuel to the fire. Beautiful post by the way, I will be sure to pass it on to my friends that aren't the ATS type.

My wife used to say...

"whats yours is mine and whats mine is mine"

so i gave her all my debts...

but nice thread NRE..spot on!

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


Thanks for your interesting post. I basically agree with what you have written.

I think it is absolutely true that women in particular and family life in general has been manipulated horribly in the 20th century. Like anything else, the reasons/causes are complex, but to a large degree it comes down to money and power, like so many other things.

The following is not about women per se, but about how advertisers and politicians learned, very explicitly and scientifically, to apply psychological manipulation to the public. It is absolutely fascinating and well worth the two hours of most ATSer's lives to watch, when and if you have the time:


Without watching the video you can still grasp the elements of the basic idea: for advertising purposes, people are made to feel deeply insecure about themselves in all sorts of ways. Even outside of advertising itself, the pressures of advertisers impact the content of the media -- advertisers don't want their products associated with gloomy, "serious," or crackpot shows or ideas, for example, so networks simply don't bother making such shows. Instead, the pressure is toward content that exacerbates materialism and status insecurity, sexual insecurity, and other even more abstruse psychological manipulations. Starting in the late 1970s, politicians began to apply psychological marketing manipulation tactics in earnest, and the world of politics has been completely transformed (i.e., cheapened) as a result.

For women in particular, both money and power are served by doubling the workforce (i.e., pushing women to work). By dint of the basic law of supply and demand, extra supply of workers = cheaper wages for everyone, more competition, etc. By tapping women's acquisitive and materialistic desires, on the other hand, consumption is increased. Traits associated with traditional femininity (compassion, softened, tenderness) are repressed. By breaking up families and making relationships frought with danger, general anxiety is maintained, and the implication is that anxiety is soothed through consumption, materialism, or other desired outcomes, political or economic.

I recall the Indian classic Mahabaharta claimed that corruption of the women was the first step in a society's downfall.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


I have to tell you, it's in my genes that I don't like clothes shopping....or...at least shopping like women do.

When I go shopping, I know what I like, and when I see it, I get it (assuming I can justify the expenditure). Simple as that. The idea of grabbing 10 outfits and trying them on, just to buy one or two is completely ALIEN to us.

Now, I get that allegedly, you women are put together so much differently, that clothing companies seem to never agree on what a SIZE is...at least I get it on a conversational level.

However, a men's 17 shirt is a men's 17 shirt. A man's pants have a waist and inseam measurement, and that's that.

It's a difference in thought patterns.

Women dress to impress other women. Men dress to fit their own tastes (unless the specific agenda is to impress women). Personally, I like to be well-dressed. Doesn't mean expensive (although I do love expensive shirts).

Even on days off, I typically wear dress slacks and a dress shirt and undershirt (no tie though). The thing is, you're simply treated better as a person. Really, it's true. Try it if you doubt me.

__________________________

Off the subject of differences in clothes shopping....I can't say that my main goal in getting with my wife is being supportive of me.

I love my wife because:

1) She was my friend first, and we have a lot of the same interests, and most of those interests are more fun with another.

2) There's the obvious, love and sex of course.

3) I have a "hero complex" (as her girlfriends call it), where I like to help people out of bad situations, and she was in one.

4) She helps me to have fun and not be so serious all the time. She's outgoing, where I'm more reserved. For all our similarities, she also contrasts me well.

I can't say that I feel women are oppressed still. After all, a decent-looking woman can get pretty far in just about any workplace, for example. (and no, not that way, but just by being pretty). I've seen so much of it, from those that are less-talented, or worse, just plain unskilled, but attractive...that it makes me sick sometimes...

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


Thank you so much! This thread that you wrote helped me come to a realization I think I've made before but it further solidified my views. Women, like men, like being talked to. They want to have a supportive relationship where it suits and satisfies their needs. I think part of the problem comes from when men or when other people don't communicate their needs effectively and they place the other women on one side and they put that above theirs... so they feel left out. This is why the stereotype is created that women are domineering and they always try to control conversations and they try to control things. As women get to know men better they would seek them out and ask them things about themselves. So, a relationship isn't necessarily a one way street (so to say).

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Your right, men and women want to be talked to , not talked at. For those that truly want things to progress would have to start at the basics. To understand that they have to treat each other as new. To discuss the past, not drag it on with them.

When you dont know what someone else went through you can never truly connect. I have met quite a few people that ask questions about you personally only to try to "beat" it with what they think was a much harder time. Its not a competition, but a window of opportunity to advance past something that made it hard for you to have been with the person before me.

Peace, NRE.

I wanted to thank you guys for being open and polite on this thread. There really is another way to try to find out about the opposite sex, by just opening up to someone who you think is worth your time and your love.

Peace, NRE.