Did Britain and The U.S.A. 'sell' Poland during WWII?

reply to post by Pitons


Could you explain how Churchill destroyed the British empire? It sounds interesting, you sound like you know something. Maybe if not here, you could start a new thread, or send me a PM?

Again, thanks for the reply.

Originally posted by potential_problem
We are living in country, where almost 15% of people is not able to find a job, young people, mainly.
Most of people cannot feel like EU member while earning 300 EUROS per month here.

EU has problems, big ones (especially because many member countries now have serious economic problems) - but I think the Polish government has it's own problems too. For example, every business here must pay 800PLN for every workers ZUS (medical insurance). (I know, because I wanted to open a company here). It isn't important if the company has 2 workers, or 1000. Every company pays the same. and the tax is 19% for businesses.

I am a computer programmer with 10 years experience, and in Poland I get 250 euros per month..no joke (only 1000zl). Sometimes, it's really hard. Luckily, my flat (which I share) is only 400PLN per month - about 100 euros.

Anyway, sorry - this is off-topic.

Originally posted by SecretSky
Do you feel betrayed by the allied forces?

It's a rather direct question, but I'm interested to hear how you feel. Pozdrawiam.

I've watched c.a. 300 documentaries about WWII made by different nations.
I've read many books and i discussed with my grandfather and other persons much about this too.

Different points of view made me rather cautious about saying decisive answer.
You know - man that did not see war is not able to fully understand it at all.

Someone told that Churchill destroyed empire of Great Britain. Did he? Or maybe it was result of unevitable evolution of tech era? I am not sure, if that very intelligent, very interesting man would be able to destroy whole power of GB, sorry.

Whole order of old era was waning since US crisis, imho, US gained MUCH on WWII, that's the point.
Someone told, that "if US was in Poland before USSR was, things would be different",
Nope, it wouldn't because US had NO PLAN to be there before russians, it was calculated and i already told about it - it was smart - russians got weapons, money and resources for simple reason - THEY had to be there first - Roosevelt, i am sure, was certain about what is going to happen in Pacific, and he must have known, that nobody help him there - it was definitely USA problem.

My grandfather said to me one day - "when russians came to our village, i was talking to them - they told us that they NEVER had so mercilles fights like here, on polish soil - fights with germans".
They lost gigantic amount of soldiers there.

Now:
Roosevelt waits as russians will fight out east from germans, he know that main goal now is Pacific - here's small issue - he do NOT KNOW at this time, if atomic power will be ready;
Stalin does not care about how many he will lose, he's doing his job, KNOWING that he will force his plans after end;
Churchill is fully aware that GB glorious days are gone, so he just tries to finish this asap, country is really bleed out.

Eastern countries problem is rough - some countries are sold immediately(Romania..), for some reason US and GB tried to save Poland, that's not exactly understandable for me, to be honest, why.
They cannot force Stalin to do what they would like him to do.
Now, imagine another 3,5,10,20 years of war, just when it is clear, that atomic power WILL be in russian reach soon.
Roosevelt is tired, sick and he's not exactly interested in Europe anymore. Next president of US was from another league, imho...

------
There's one ugly aspect of post war history i cannot understand at all though;
Germans are responsible for war. They lost.
And what's happening then?
After few years of hard times they are starting to be powerful force again.
They have rebuilt their cities, and in next years they seem to just forget about whole thing.
Now, with France, they are ruling EU, and for some reason it's like peaceful extension of WWII, like they realized, that general goals may be achieved with economic and beaurocratic methods and nobody is able to do ANYTHING, like access paper was more, than just paper....
And this is happening again, differently, but weirdly similar(of course, only goal is to rule and earn now).

One more thing - this is very ennerving for me, i must say.
I am watching world's News channels frequently.
There's something i just cannot resist.
CNN always tells in their news related to Oswiecim, and other concentration camps about POLISH concentration camps. I hope you understand it right: camps are POLISH for them, and every time it is said like this.
I feel ashamed for my gvmt, that they seem to not know how US sees this issue(especially when we link this to ADL etc etc...).

Sorry for grammar, it gets worse, when i am emotional..and tired.

Btw, i am comuter technician, unemployed, actually, with 8 years of prectise(and fanatic of computer science since 6y.o., when my father bought computer for c.a. 1 year salary).

For example, every business here must pay 800PLN(,,,)

Alez nie tlumacz mi tego, jestem Polakiem, w koncu..

reply to post by SecretSky


I agree, Poland isn't the only country with the high unemployment rate.

reply to post by SecretSky


Quite frankly,yes,Britain and the US did sell out Poland ,prior to the declaration of war on Nazi Germany,when Chamberlain had misread Hitler's intentions regarding the occupation of Poland (and the Sudetenland),where he was reassured that Hitler had no designs on Poland per se,but did want to annex western Poland(Prussia) to the third reich.Chamberlain and his government basically accepted this (and the annexation of the Sudetenland) as the price of peace in Europe.(sell out no 1)

At the Yalta conference where the three main allied leaders met to discuss the political and geographical picture of Europe post WW2,Roosevelts main over riding concern was the war in the pacific,and basically he was ready to promise Stalin anything(including a free hand in Eastern Europe) in return for Soviet military assistance in the fight against Japan(this was before the A bomb had been recognised as a viable weapon).(sell out no 2)

Despite what many people perceive Churchill's part in the "surrendering" of Poland to the soviets to be,He was in fact highly critical of Stalin's intentions toward the eastern european nations and repeatedly tried to warn Roosevelt off brokering such a deal with Stalin,unfortunately,Roosevelt was under the impression that he could "handle" Stalin so ignored Churchill's input.

So you may like to point out to your Polish friends that,yes for sure Britain could have done a hell of a lot more for Poland,but the real blame lies with Stalin and Roosevelt.

reply to post by SecretSky


Roosevelt and Stalin tied Churchill's hands at the Yalta Conference. Stalin wanted Poland as a buffer against any future threat from Germany. Mother Russia couldn't attack America at the time, but they could sure lay some hurt down on Great Britain if they wanted to, and Roosevelt admired Stalin's Russia so he bent over backwards to help him in any way he could. Is it any stretch of imagination that a Socialist dictator would help a Communist one?

/TOA

Originally posted by redrose123
reply to post by SecretSky

 

I am truly shocked at the lack of knowledge people have posted about recent history. It wasn't just Poland it was most of Europe that was simply handed to the Communist regime under the crazy blood thirsty killer named Stalin. How does anyone think that the USSR came about. It is an atrocity of life and liberty that I don't know can be paralled The countries that had been crushed by war then those people and their land were handed over to more blood bath. General Patten wanted to march into Russia and finish the job. He was shortly there after ran over by a jeep and killed.

This if true is truly interesting and deserving of its own thread surely, who was the driver?
This would be on record? was he a communist?
Remember Communism was VERY POPULAR then....just ask the executed Poles.

reply to post by SecretSky


Because of the deals done during and right after the war, the British Empire was to be dismantled.

You don't think we did it out of love, do you? It was the US's conditions for their "assistance" during the war. I would go into far more detail, but I would not want to derail this thread..

reply to post by stumason


That definitely seems worthy of it's own thread imho