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Iraq / Election Musings....
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I wrote this as a response to another forum question, but I think it may be a good topic to kick aorund some more.
My main points are, What if we did not go to Iraq? and what is the result of our actions in the coming decade? I want frank discussion, not baby killer talk. No hate speach, just logic...
In the short term, Iraq was always going to be a lose/lose situation. If we did what we did, Bush was eventually going to look bad and have his presidency threatened, civilians were going to die, insurgencies were going to happen, and the world was going to look at us as warmongers.
On the other hand, if we didn't go in, Iraqis were going to continue to live in fear, Qusai would be elected President by 2010, Iraq would continue training and assisting terrorism in and out of the middle east, perhaps as far as an official alliance with al-Queda(This was being discussed, as per 9/11 commision report(worth reading, but bring lots of coffee), and the US would be safe, for a while...
The real question is how far is the US willing to go to protect itself. Bush was willing to put the Presidency on the line to remove a removeable threat. Of all the terrorist threats (Iraq, Iran, Syria) Iraq was the one easiest to remove, given reduced military levels, financing, and sanctions following gulf war 1. Only Iraq was vulnerable enough to be defeated easily. The coming election will show if the US is willing to be preemptive or reactionary.
I suppose the US has lost so much clout overseas that it will be decades before it is repaired. But, in the hottest area (Middle East) the US has never had clout, and has only had abject hatred against it. Western Europe finds the US barbaric and militant, Eastern Europe finds the US as an ally that they can cling to to re-establish their countries, and Asia seems split on the whole issue. Britian will ally with us as long as the present administration is in power(not for long, i suspect) France has been very independent minded for the last 30 years, and considered itself a counterbalance to the US even before Iraq, and Russia will do what it is in its best interests, regardless of alliances.
The coming election WILL divide the US, that I have no doubt. If Bush wins, hatred and louthing of Bush will continue to the point where nothing will get acomplished and it will be hard to find the truth in the media. If Kerry wins, the US will retreat into itself and regroup for now, perhaps spending itself out of superpower status with social programs.
[edit on 8/5/2004 by soulforge]
My main points are, What if we did not go to Iraq? and what is the result of our actions in the coming decade? I want frank discussion, not baby killer talk. No hate speach, just logic...
In the short term, Iraq was always going to be a lose/lose situation. If we did what we did, Bush was eventually going to look bad and have his presidency threatened, civilians were going to die, insurgencies were going to happen, and the world was going to look at us as warmongers.
On the other hand, if we didn't go in, Iraqis were going to continue to live in fear, Qusai would be elected President by 2010, Iraq would continue training and assisting terrorism in and out of the middle east, perhaps as far as an official alliance with al-Queda(This was being discussed, as per 9/11 commision report(worth reading, but bring lots of coffee), and the US would be safe, for a while...
The real question is how far is the US willing to go to protect itself. Bush was willing to put the Presidency on the line to remove a removeable threat. Of all the terrorist threats (Iraq, Iran, Syria) Iraq was the one easiest to remove, given reduced military levels, financing, and sanctions following gulf war 1. Only Iraq was vulnerable enough to be defeated easily. The coming election will show if the US is willing to be preemptive or reactionary.
I suppose the US has lost so much clout overseas that it will be decades before it is repaired. But, in the hottest area (Middle East) the US has never had clout, and has only had abject hatred against it. Western Europe finds the US barbaric and militant, Eastern Europe finds the US as an ally that they can cling to to re-establish their countries, and Asia seems split on the whole issue. Britian will ally with us as long as the present administration is in power(not for long, i suspect) France has been very independent minded for the last 30 years, and considered itself a counterbalance to the US even before Iraq, and Russia will do what it is in its best interests, regardless of alliances.
The coming election WILL divide the US, that I have no doubt. If Bush wins, hatred and louthing of Bush will continue to the point where nothing will get acomplished and it will be hard to find the truth in the media. If Kerry wins, the US will retreat into itself and regroup for now, perhaps spending itself out of superpower status with social programs.
[edit on 8/5/2004 by soulforge]
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