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Germany decides to abandon nuclear power by 2022
page: 4share:
reply to post by thorfourwinds
Pure fact and spin are two different things. It's a fact that bananas are radioactive. It's also a fact that the potassium isotopes decay as alpha radiation, which doesn't even penetrate the epidermis. Simply saying that bananas are radioactive is a form of 'spin' - the facts presented/omitted and the order in which they are presented are all a form of 'spin.' I deliberately placed that fact first to draw interest and attention to my statement. I omitted the fact that bananas are eaten (and the radioactive potassium therefor ingested) and this changes radiation exposure considerations.
However, people have been eating bananas for a long damned time (as well as other potassium-rich produce) and no problems have, to my knowledge, ever been associated to the radiological concerns of potassium uptake. Plenty of problems with a particular isotope of Cesium (chemically similar to Potassium) being concentrated in the fruits of regions used for testing of fusion-class warheads - but that's a different issue, entirely.
We run into the same problems all the time with radar and other forms of high-energy emissions. There is really no "safe" amount of exposure - as the circumstances of each exposure are very unique and dependent upon a number of factors that are difficult and even impossible to control (or determine after the fact).
Wireless routers? Probably not a good idea to sleep next to one. It's probably not going to give you skin cancer or fry your brain - but a number of our sexual processes are adversely effected by RF emissions - it's anecdotal, but it's fairly common safety advise in the industry that, for whatever reason - the y-chromosome carrying sperm are rather sensitive to RF.
I still own and use a wireless router. I just don't cuddle with it before bed.
The same goes for any radiation. In beta and gamma radiation resulting from spontaneous fission - each atom can be considered to be an emitter of radiation, and while weak - we know that local field equations still apply and the amplitude of any given wave-form increases with locality by a squared ratio (more commonly inverted to show that amplitude is an inverse-square function of distance). So - the radiation applied to any given molecule in your body by being near radioactive fallout is going to be rather extreme by comparison to the net average.
So - in this sense - radioactive fallout is never "at safe levels" when it comes to preventing cellular damage that could potentially lead to cancer.
However - the amount of radioactive fallout from the Japanese incident is negligible in the extremes by comparison to naturally occurring sources of background radiation. These include radon gas, carbon isotopes, your partner (people are radioactive), and several dozen other isotopes that are quite common, occur naturally, and are several orders of magnitude more prevalent than any particles associated with the nuclear power industry.
As has already been demonstrated - the amount of U-238 put off by coal combustion, alone, releases more uranium freely into the atmosphere as fly-ash than is used to fuel the world's nuclear reactors for that year. That doesn't even begin to address the radioactive carbon isotopes released, thorium, radon, radioactive lead isotopes, and a host of other radiological nasties released by coal combustion. Straight into our atmosphere or stacked in heaps of ash and slag collected from power plants.
I can't help but wonder how it can be verified that these 'traces of radiation' are being causally linked to the Japanese incident when, as has already been demonstrated, we practically shower ourselves in a host of radioactive isotopes from coal power plants....
There's a considerable difference between breathing in smoke from the local fireworks display and sticking a bottle-rocket in your mouth.
The nuclear facility is now contained - much like a fireworks display ends - people endure the smoke from it (or evade it, because of obvious concerns). People who continually ingest radioactive isotopes as part of a habit would be like the guy taking hits off of his bottle rocket or something along those lines - silly as the idea may sound - the point is that it's a continual habit/ritual as opposed to a rather limited and localized ordeal.
As for Cesium 137 - again, while nothing is ever "safe" - even getting out of bed in the morning (or staying in it, for that matter) - the levels are very low; lower than the natural occurring levels in other regions of the globe. There's no cause for -alarm- over the issue.
... 'kay.
Care to compare that to the list of other things they ban regarding religious content and other matters of contentious nature to many?
I'm reminded of a David LaMotte song:
"Our side appears to be up for the moment
They taste defeat we decide they deserve
We shoot the horizon and catch our own bullets
And find it is only the hatred we serve
Give me the update, tell me again
Show me the difference between us and them
Give it a number between one and ten
Give me the headline
Give me the spin"
- Spin, David LaMotte
I thought you just made the claim that this was all done "secretly." Yet it's a public law.
Anyway - radiation restrictions are softened during such times because - interestingly enough - food is a rather important commodity. People tend to get rather... unreasonable... when faced with shortages thereof. While higher amounts of radiation may be undesirable and completely unreasonable during normal conditions - the human body tends to be much more tolerant of radiation than starvation.
But, you know, if you want to have thousands of metric tons of crops sit and rot while hundreds of millions see food prices jump by orders of magnitude and starve in the streets.... by all means - make your government ban all the food.
Anyone who knows the slightest bit about nuclear reactors knows how absolutely -stupid- this claim is. Critical mass is impossible to achieve in nuclear reactors. Not implausible. Not unlikely. Impossible. Arguing about Chernobyl being one is only remotely acceptable because the KGB was doing all kinds of "experiments" with the reactor that no sane nuclear physicist would have done near a populated region. Though, again, all evidence points to a hydrogen explosion in Chernobyl - and the notion that critical mass was achieved at the Fukishima plant is, to put it bluntly, exceptionally stupid.
It is a claim completely unbecoming of anyone even briefly educated on the matter. It really doesn't need to be discussed any further than that.
At one point, I thought the SAT and ACT were absolutely retarded because the "science" portion involved one's capacity to read and interpret a graph/table/etc. Asking me questions about something that had the answers blatantly printed in front of me seemed rather ... counter-productive.
Sadly, I'm something of a prodigy and can actually read these things. The answer to your question simply lay in the two graphs. While I cannot locate larger versions - it is quite obvious, even from the low-resolution thumbnails that the gradients presented are quite different between the two maps. It appears as though they are two completely different metrics, to begin with.
You have the gradient at the right-hand side of the map. The numbers presented off to the right indicate what a given hue represents in terms of some metric (exactly what, I can't tell - it's too small). However - the map that "isn't plastered" has considerably fewer digits along the right-hand column. The map that "is plastered" has a completely different numbering to go along with it. I'm not even certain the two graphs are intended to represent the same measurement.
At the very least, what has been done in the "plastered" map is the gradient adjusted to show the distribution of fallout as opposed to indicate where fallout was going to present a health hazard.
For example - I am going to spray some cleaners in my bathroom - and I place some sensors around the house and outside to pick up where all those chemicals go, and then I create a series of graphs from the data. On one graph - I'm only going to be concerned about where enough of the chemicals are detected to be hazardous to breathe. For that, It's going to take much larger values to begin to indicate a "red zone." However, for another graph, I'm merely interested in showing where all the chemical has been detected. For this, I'm worried about much smaller concentrations - so small that I can't even smell them (but the sensors pick them up).
The two graphs have much different uses - though they are based around the same information.
Not an industry person, are you?
A "Near Miss" is when an accident is averted. It can be from something as simple as the idiot driving the fork-lift nearly cleaving someone in half as he flies around a corner to a spent fuel rod container dropping on the ground because it didn't get secured properly.
Without knowing the details - making any kind of judgment is impossible. For either of us.
We are truly amazed that presenting what is a pure fact - without any spin associated to it - can generate such an outbreak of insecurity and outright fear-driven responses.
Pure fact and spin are two different things. It's a fact that bananas are radioactive. It's also a fact that the potassium isotopes decay as alpha radiation, which doesn't even penetrate the epidermis. Simply saying that bananas are radioactive is a form of 'spin' - the facts presented/omitted and the order in which they are presented are all a form of 'spin.' I deliberately placed that fact first to draw interest and attention to my statement. I omitted the fact that bananas are eaten (and the radioactive potassium therefor ingested) and this changes radiation exposure considerations.
However, people have been eating bananas for a long damned time (as well as other potassium-rich produce) and no problems have, to my knowledge, ever been associated to the radiological concerns of potassium uptake. Plenty of problems with a particular isotope of Cesium (chemically similar to Potassium) being concentrated in the fruits of regions used for testing of fusion-class warheads - but that's a different issue, entirely.
Government Radiation Expert Deconstructs Myth Of “Safe” Radiation Levels
Nuclear radiation expert and renowned Government radiation expert, Chris Bubsy, deconstructs the myths and propaganda of so-called “safe” levels of nuclear radiation.
We run into the same problems all the time with radar and other forms of high-energy emissions. There is really no "safe" amount of exposure - as the circumstances of each exposure are very unique and dependent upon a number of factors that are difficult and even impossible to control (or determine after the fact).
Wireless routers? Probably not a good idea to sleep next to one. It's probably not going to give you skin cancer or fry your brain - but a number of our sexual processes are adversely effected by RF emissions - it's anecdotal, but it's fairly common safety advise in the industry that, for whatever reason - the y-chromosome carrying sperm are rather sensitive to RF.
I still own and use a wireless router. I just don't cuddle with it before bed.
The same goes for any radiation. In beta and gamma radiation resulting from spontaneous fission - each atom can be considered to be an emitter of radiation, and while weak - we know that local field equations still apply and the amplitude of any given wave-form increases with locality by a squared ratio (more commonly inverted to show that amplitude is an inverse-square function of distance). So - the radiation applied to any given molecule in your body by being near radioactive fallout is going to be rather extreme by comparison to the net average.
So - in this sense - radioactive fallout is never "at safe levels" when it comes to preventing cellular damage that could potentially lead to cancer.
However - the amount of radioactive fallout from the Japanese incident is negligible in the extremes by comparison to naturally occurring sources of background radiation. These include radon gas, carbon isotopes, your partner (people are radioactive), and several dozen other isotopes that are quite common, occur naturally, and are several orders of magnitude more prevalent than any particles associated with the nuclear power industry.
As has already been demonstrated - the amount of U-238 put off by coal combustion, alone, releases more uranium freely into the atmosphere as fly-ash than is used to fuel the world's nuclear reactors for that year. That doesn't even begin to address the radioactive carbon isotopes released, thorium, radon, radioactive lead isotopes, and a host of other radiological nasties released by coal combustion. Straight into our atmosphere or stacked in heaps of ash and slag collected from power plants.
Traces of radiation from the crippled nuclear plant in Japan are being detected in states from California to Massachusetts, carried across the Pacific on broad rivers of wind. But state officials say there is no public health risk.
I can't help but wonder how it can be verified that these 'traces of radiation' are being causally linked to the Japanese incident when, as has already been demonstrated, we practically shower ourselves in a host of radioactive isotopes from coal power plants....
The corporate media in the West is downplaying and basically ignoring the threat. On the one hand, the EPA tells us Cesium-137 is appearing in milk and water around the country, while on the other telling us not to worry.
The EPA said in March that “while they were above the historical and background norm, the levels weren’t considered harmful to human health.”
The agency sounds the alarm about radioactivity in cigarette smoke while minimizing the risk from an out-of-control nuclear plant that continues to spew radioactivity on an hourly basis... continuously!
There's a considerable difference between breathing in smoke from the local fireworks display and sticking a bottle-rocket in your mouth.
The nuclear facility is now contained - much like a fireworks display ends - people endure the smoke from it (or evade it, because of obvious concerns). People who continually ingest radioactive isotopes as part of a habit would be like the guy taking hits off of his bottle rocket or something along those lines - silly as the idea may sound - the point is that it's a continual habit/ritual as opposed to a rather limited and localized ordeal.
As for Cesium 137 - again, while nothing is ever "safe" - even getting out of bed in the morning (or staying in it, for that matter) - the levels are very low; lower than the natural occurring levels in other regions of the globe. There's no cause for -alarm- over the issue.
Austria, Germany, Canada and Australia have banned eight episodes of The Simpsons dealing with nuclear crisis.
... 'kay.
Care to compare that to the list of other things they ban regarding religious content and other matters of contentious nature to many?
The Simpsons, now in its 24th season with 480 episodes, has been one of the few outlets to show the greed of nuclear operators, groveling toadies and a complacent public to a mainstream television audience — meltdowns caused by jelly doughnuts!
I'm reminded of a David LaMotte song:
"Our side appears to be up for the moment
They taste defeat we decide they deserve
We shoot the horizon and catch our own bullets
And find it is only the hatred we serve
Give me the update, tell me again
Show me the difference between us and them
Give it a number between one and ten
Give me the headline
Give me the spin"
- Spin, David LaMotte
According to EU bylaws, radiation limits may be raised during a nuclear emergency
to prevent food shortages.
I thought you just made the claim that this was all done "secretly." Yet it's a public law.
Anyway - radiation restrictions are softened during such times because - interestingly enough - food is a rather important commodity. People tend to get rather... unreasonable... when faced with shortages thereof. While higher amounts of radiation may be undesirable and completely unreasonable during normal conditions - the human body tends to be much more tolerant of radiation than starvation.
But, you know, if you want to have thousands of metric tons of crops sit and rot while hundreds of millions see food prices jump by orders of magnitude and starve in the streets.... by all means - make your government ban all the food.
Fukushima Meltdown Could Trigger Atomic Explosion
Anyone who knows the slightest bit about nuclear reactors knows how absolutely -stupid- this claim is. Critical mass is impossible to achieve in nuclear reactors. Not implausible. Not unlikely. Impossible. Arguing about Chernobyl being one is only remotely acceptable because the KGB was doing all kinds of "experiments" with the reactor that no sane nuclear physicist would have done near a populated region. Though, again, all evidence points to a hydrogen explosion in Chernobyl - and the notion that critical mass was achieved at the Fukishima plant is, to put it bluntly, exceptionally stupid.
It is a claim completely unbecoming of anyone even briefly educated on the matter. It really doesn't need to be discussed any further than that.
That's right, it shows the Northern Hemisphere getting absolutely plastered with radioactive Cesium-137. If this is incorrect, why is it kept on file and not the public one? If it is the real version, why is it not publicly released?
At one point, I thought the SAT and ACT were absolutely retarded because the "science" portion involved one's capacity to read and interpret a graph/table/etc. Asking me questions about something that had the answers blatantly printed in front of me seemed rather ... counter-productive.
Sadly, I'm something of a prodigy and can actually read these things. The answer to your question simply lay in the two graphs. While I cannot locate larger versions - it is quite obvious, even from the low-resolution thumbnails that the gradients presented are quite different between the two maps. It appears as though they are two completely different metrics, to begin with.
You have the gradient at the right-hand side of the map. The numbers presented off to the right indicate what a given hue represents in terms of some metric (exactly what, I can't tell - it's too small). However - the map that "isn't plastered" has considerably fewer digits along the right-hand column. The map that "is plastered" has a completely different numbering to go along with it. I'm not even certain the two graphs are intended to represent the same measurement.
At the very least, what has been done in the "plastered" map is the gradient adjusted to show the distribution of fallout as opposed to indicate where fallout was going to present a health hazard.
For example - I am going to spray some cleaners in my bathroom - and I place some sensors around the house and outside to pick up where all those chemicals go, and then I create a series of graphs from the data. On one graph - I'm only going to be concerned about where enough of the chemicals are detected to be hazardous to breathe. For that, It's going to take much larger values to begin to indicate a "red zone." However, for another graph, I'm merely interested in showing where all the chemical has been detected. For this, I'm worried about much smaller concentrations - so small that I can't even smell them (but the sensors pick them up).
The two graphs have much different uses - though they are based around the same information.
Poorly-regulated nuclear power plants had 13 'near-misses' in 2010.
Not an industry person, are you?
A "Near Miss" is when an accident is averted. It can be from something as simple as the idiot driving the fork-lift nearly cleaving someone in half as he flies around a corner to a spent fuel rod container dropping on the ground because it didn't get secured properly.
Without knowing the details - making any kind of judgment is impossible. For either of us.
Greetings:
Meanwhile, back to the Fukushima World-Killer Nuke Meltdowns and the [color=limegreen]continuing radiation poising of our land, food and children - 24/7/365.
zorgon, what is your take on this?
Greetings:
Thank you for your insightful and timely response.
1) We have been attempting to sound the alarm in the many nuke-related threads in our signature, and have come to the same conclusion: NO ONE CARES...
However, having spent the last six weeks on the road in the Hurricane Irene-ravaged areas of North Carolina, we were amazed - no, dumfounded - that [color=limegreen]NOT ONE PERSON we spoke with (including fellow First Responder Volunteer Firepersons) had any clue about Fukushima 24/7/365.
The Captain of the local department said that "there is no problem, or the USGOV/EPA would alert us, and it would be on television, right? (!???!)
Revised Conclusion: The people have been denied the basic information to make informed decisions as to how best "handle" the radiation poisoning nightmare.
2) Never thought that you would not be (there) "here" - after all, who would want to leave that pool? And whatever happens in "here" (there) stays in "here," (there), right mate?
3) You and Ann Coulter make such a great pair...
Glad to be back.
As we have been attempting to bring to light for over six months (!), there exists a world-wide conspiracy in the MSM to deprive the public of the facts regarding the dire consequences of the melt-throughs of the nuclear reactors at Fukushima-Daiichi.
Please listen up, people.
Your life and the lives of your loved ones may very well depend on your access to and use thereof of potentially life-saving information being kept from you by the EPA/USGOV.
The total number of days between Friday, March 11th, 2011 and Tuesday, October 11th, 2011 is 214 days.
The radiation poisoning of our people, food and land has continued unabated - 24/7/365 - for exactly 7 months.
For your edification and enjoyment (bewilderment), a few 'notable' stories that seemed to miss mass circulation and perhaps a peek at what might have been missed on the 6:00 o'clock news...:
Three days into the disaster, this FOR EYES ONLY memo circulated at the NRC.
14 March 2011
NRC ONLY Update – All 3 Reactor Cores Likely Damaged
15 March 2011
Fukushima Daiichi Units Degrading – Zirconium Fire at Reactor 4 SFP – Reactor 2 Possible Reactor Vessel Breach & Ex-Vessel Core Reaction
My goodness gracious! And we thought they (TEPCO/JAPGOV) said they had this "stabilized..." and presumably under control...
At least, that is what they (and the EPA/USGOV) would have you believe.
Fast-forward about six months to more headlines you may have missed in your local media:
21 August 2011
Fukushima Officials Worry New Discovery of Radioactive Beef Will Harm Reputation More After Farmer Confirms Cattle Not Fed Contaminated Rice Straw
21 August 2011
4,000 Potentially Radioactive Cows Without Radioactive Rice Hay May Have Been Shipped from One Farm in Namie-Machi, Fukushima
29 August 2011
Why the Fukushima Disaster Is Worse Than Chernobyl
31 August 2011
France Releases Map of Cesium-137 Deposition Across the Pacific – Shows the US More Contaminated Than Western Japan
[color=limegreen]Will this insanity end?
In Peace, Love & Light
tfw
Meanwhile, back to the Fukushima World-Killer Nuke Meltdowns and the [color=limegreen]continuing radiation poising of our land, food and children - 24/7/365.
zorgon, what is your take on this?
Well, I spent three weeks following that Fukushima story doggedly... then in the end I found out three things...
1) Except for a handful of people and those that live in the area... NO ONE CARES...
2) We are still here... 1000's of nuke tests (especially near my home town) medical radiation, space radiation, CME's, cell tower radiation, microwave radiation... etc etc.. and we are STILL HERE.. and world population is increasing exponentially
3) Radiation is good for you
Greetings:
Thank you for your insightful and timely response.
1) We have been attempting to sound the alarm in the many nuke-related threads in our signature, and have come to the same conclusion: NO ONE CARES...
However, having spent the last six weeks on the road in the Hurricane Irene-ravaged areas of North Carolina, we were amazed - no, dumfounded - that [color=limegreen]NOT ONE PERSON we spoke with (including fellow First Responder Volunteer Firepersons) had any clue about Fukushima 24/7/365.
The Captain of the local department said that "there is no problem, or the USGOV/EPA would alert us, and it would be on television, right? (!???!)
Revised Conclusion: The people have been denied the basic information to make informed decisions as to how best "handle" the radiation poisoning nightmare.
2) Never thought that you would not be (there) "here" - after all, who would want to leave that pool? And whatever happens in "here" (there) stays in "here," (there), right mate?
3) You and Ann Coulter make such a great pair...
Glad to be back.
As we have been attempting to bring to light for over six months (!), there exists a world-wide conspiracy in the MSM to deprive the public of the facts regarding the dire consequences of the melt-throughs of the nuclear reactors at Fukushima-Daiichi.
Please listen up, people.
Your life and the lives of your loved ones may very well depend on your access to and use thereof of potentially life-saving information being kept from you by the EPA/USGOV.
The total number of days between Friday, March 11th, 2011 and Tuesday, October 11th, 2011 is 214 days.
The radiation poisoning of our people, food and land has continued unabated - 24/7/365 - for exactly 7 months.
For your edification and enjoyment (bewilderment), a few 'notable' stories that seemed to miss mass circulation and perhaps a peek at what might have been missed on the 6:00 o'clock news...:
Three days into the disaster, this FOR EYES ONLY memo circulated at the NRC.
14 March 2011
NRC ONLY Update – All 3 Reactor Cores Likely Damaged
15 March 2011
Fukushima Daiichi Units Degrading – Zirconium Fire at Reactor 4 SFP – Reactor 2 Possible Reactor Vessel Breach & Ex-Vessel Core Reaction
My goodness gracious! And we thought they (TEPCO/JAPGOV) said they had this "stabilized..." and presumably under control...
At least, that is what they (and the EPA/USGOV) would have you believe.
Fast-forward about six months to more headlines you may have missed in your local media:
21 August 2011
Fukushima Officials Worry New Discovery of Radioactive Beef Will Harm Reputation More After Farmer Confirms Cattle Not Fed Contaminated Rice Straw
21 August 2011
4,000 Potentially Radioactive Cows Without Radioactive Rice Hay May Have Been Shipped from One Farm in Namie-Machi, Fukushima
29 August 2011
Why the Fukushima Disaster Is Worse Than Chernobyl
31 August 2011
France Releases Map of Cesium-137 Deposition Across the Pacific – Shows the US More Contaminated Than Western Japan
[color=limegreen]Will this insanity end?
In Peace, Love & Light
tfw
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