NATO use cluster bomb in Libya

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Presstv located in Tehran, Iran.You call this a credible source?
Your in the wrong place to be pulling wool.

reply to post by confreak

thanks for clearing that up for me! umm wasent there some resoloution of some kind that a bunch of nations signed saying they wouldnt use them(Usa didnt sign) so that might add more crediblity to there claims

Which UN counties are currently operating and engaging in attacks in Libya?
Which of these countries did not participate or ratify in the treaty to not use cluster weapons?

Yep....You know....

This does not surprise me that cluster bomb was intended to hold gadaffi forces back found this link humanrightsinvestigations.org... dirty wars and propaganda by the west

Originally posted by TREASONFX
This does not surprise me that cluster bomb was intended to hold gadaffi forces back found this link humanrightsinvestigations.org... dirty wars and propaganda by the west

This link/blog does not surprise me they are linked to- Support for muammar al-Gaddafi- on face book.
You want to talk about dirty wars and propaganda.

was it the same cluster bomb Israel got in trouble over a few years ago? And now it is OK if we use them?

UN denounces Israel cluster bombs

The UN's humanitarian chief has accused Israel of "completely immoral" use of cluster bombs in Lebanon.

link

Originally posted by flyingfish
reply to post by confreak

 

I'm all for believing NATO is capable of anything especially if it is beneficial to the cause.
However in this case the risk outweighs any perceived benefit NATO would gain by doing so.
It's just common sense.

Do you think it is beneficial for NATO to justify the war it is involved in right now (through demonization of the Libyan regime)? After all, there is no actual declaration of war, nor does the UNSC resolution allows a war.

The Libyan situation looks like an open ended war, rather than humanitarian mission.

What do you think?

The HRI makes the case against NATO, you deny the case on the basis of motive, I lay down a motive. I think that should be enough at this moment of time.

Originally posted by flyingfish
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

 

Presstv located in Tehran, Iran.You call this a credible source?
Your in the wrong place to be pulling wool.

Tehran is a megacity with 10 million+ people. They are on par with large US cities. They have major news outlets. Why would you believe US media over iran media? As a matter of fact US media is more controlled by the government than Irannian media.

Did you know journalists are threatened and arrested when they are reporting about the war in iraq and afghanistan? It is called US media censorship.

BBC, wikileaks, presstv, RT, aljazeera are all credible sources unless you can tell me your reasons why?

Aside from being illegal and not the best weapon for clearing an area who is even making these still? I would need to see first hand proof before I would believe it. Why not drop a FAE MOAB Daisy Cutter on them and be done with it?

Come on ATS check your facts these disinformation sources are stupid and don't so they make impossible claims and don't get the facts right or in this case even close.

The MAT-120 is a mortar fired cluster round. its not a bomb.
Its made in Spain. and the US does not use them.(the US has there OWN 120mm rounds)
en.wikipedia.org...

Plus the US Navy would not have them for aircraft as they are not aircraft ordnance.
They are 120mm caliber mortar round so the US marines would not have them for anything but ground troops With special 120mm mortars.

And lastly the MAT-120 round is not approved for US Navy USE OR STORAGE aboard navy ships.
All ordnance used by the Navy MUST be safety tested and aproved for them to be allowed on Navy ships.
No one out there is going to find a US navy approval listing for these.
(I know this because the safety testing for the navy and marines is done at China lake.)

This is C**p from some groups that just like to blame the US for anything they can makeup or falsify.
likely the same A**h**e that claim that DU is in US ordnance that never had or needed DU.
These groups are likely front groups for Russia or China

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

Originally posted by flyingfish
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

Presstv located in Tehran, Iran.You call this a credible source?
Your in the wrong place to be pulling wool.

Tehran is a megacity with 10 million+ people. They are on par with large US cities. They have major news outlets. Why would you believe US media over iran media? As a matter of fact US media is more controlled by the government than Irannian media.

Did you know journalists are threatened and arrested when they are reporting about the war in iraq and afghanistan? It is called US media censorship.

BBC, wikileaks, presstv, RT, aljazeera are all credible sources unless you can tell me your reasons why?

OMG...please use lulz or winky smilies when you write stuff like this. There may be young, impressionable readers who would believe you:

Iran Cracks Down on Press

Iran: Press Crackdown Intensifies

(New York, January 15, 2003) - Human Rights Watch (hrw.org) today deplored Iran's closure of two leading independent newspapers on Saturday and called on the authorities to permit them to reopen without delay.

"Iran's remaining independent press has been a key public forum, such as the public debate about parliament's efforts to limit the power of the Council of Guardians," said Joe Stork, Washington director of the Middle East and North Africa division of Human Rights Watch.

On January 11, 2003, branch 1408 of the Tehran Public Court ordered the suspension of Bahar (Spring), a daily newspaper, "until further notice." In a letter to Ahmad Majed Jamei, the Minister of Culture and Islamic Guidance, the court stated that the newspaper "insulted the authorities," without any elaboration. The managing director of Bahar, Saeid Pour-Azizi, is the General Director of President Khatami's Office on Information and News.

Press Censorship in Iran

Censorship in Iran is the limiting or suppressing of the publishing, dissemination, and viewing of certain information in the Islamic Republic of Iran. The majority of such censorship is implemented or mandated by the Iranian government.

Censored content often includes information that relates to women's rights, freedom of speech, democracy, pornography, certain news sources, certain religious content, and many websites.

Censored media include essentially all capable of reaching an even marginal audience, including television, print media, radio, film, museum and gallery exhibits, and the Internet. Iranians attempting to access most informational databases and search engines are met with a page reading: "The requested page is forbidden."[1] Most forms of media are vetted for acceptability by the Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance.

Reporters Without Borders ranks Iran's press situation as "Very serious", the worst ranking on their five-point scale.[2] Iran's Internet censorship policy is labeled "Pervasive" by the OpenNet Initiative's global Internet filtering map, also the worst ranking used.[3]

reply to post by flyingfish


The point is cluster bombs are illegal

reply to post by flyingfish


I would say the same to CNN and Fox in the good ol' US of A

NATO = USA (Satan) LED


Yet folk still kiss the Beasts shim a** & claim to be peace loving
, the day God loving folk stand up to USA is the day i'll actually give a # .... how can we take any of this whole picture seriously when it was planned years ago

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


PressTV bahahahah! About as credible as Scorcha Faal! Seriously, you really have to ask about Oozy! Go have a read of his posts!

The ongoing HRI investigation of the cluster bombing of Misrata in April 2011 has found convincing evidence the bombing was committed by US naval forces.

The bombing of Misrata

On the 15th April 2011, during the day, sub-munitions of a MAT-120 cluster bomb were shown to Human Rights Watch (HRW) and C.J. Chivers, a journalist for the New York Times, in Misrata. On that evening, during ongoing clashes between rebel and loyalist forces, Human Rights Watch workers witnessed 3 or 4 cluster munitions landing in residential areas of Misrata. HRW attest to further subsequent such bombings.

Civilians were killed in these attacks and the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, Navi Pillay, condemned:
“The reported repeated use of cluster munitions and heavy weaponry by Libyan government forces in their attempt to regain control of the besieged city of Misrata.”

She noted that one cluster bomb had reportedly exploded a few hundred metres from a hospital in Misrata while another two clinics were apparently hit by mortar or sniper fire.

“Using imprecise weaponry such as cluster munitions, multiple rocket launchers and mortars, and other forms of heavy weaponry, in crowded urban areas will inevitably lead to civilian casualties.”

The rush to judgement

Both HRW and C.J. Chivers immediately blamed these attacks on the Gaddafi regime and the news has been a front page and first item on the television news around the world.

Here are the relevant HRW and NYT reports:

The Human Rights Watch Report of 15th April on which the Ghaddafi forces fired cluster munitions story has been based.

CJ Chiver’s report on 15th April, ‘Qaddafi Troops Fire Cluster Bombs Into Civilian Areas’

Fred Abrahams on BBC Radio 4 Today Program 16 April 2011

In response to the question of why he assumed the munitions, which form part of NATO’s arsenal, were fired by Libyan rather than NATO forces, Fred Abrahams said,

“Because the MAT-120 is mortar-fired and NATO has no troops on the ground.” Link

When initially confronted with the information that cluster bombs had been found in Misrata, Hillary Clinton’s reaction was:

“That is worrying information. And it is one of the reasons the fight in Misrata is so difficult, because it’s at close quarters, it’s in amongst urban areas and it poses a lot of challenges to both NATO and to the opposition.”

The MAT-120 cluster bomb can be fired by naval forces

The MAT-120 ammunition is indeed mortar-fired, but it is a heavy weapon of a specific type which can be used in specific weapons systems, such as the AMOS or NEMO, mounted in a turret.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4113f0a2bacb.jpg[/atsimg]

Here is the AMOS system mounted on a CB-90 in action:


Weapon of choice for Special Operations

The combination of the AMOS and the Combat Boat 90H has been described as ideal for fire support in urban environments and is one of the only weapons systems in the coalition armoury that can be used for this task.

As Captain Evin H. Thompson, Commander of US Naval Special Warfare Group Four, ssaid in June 2007, in relation to a specific question about US Navy use of the CB90-H and AMOS system (which fires the MAT-120):

“The Amos or something like that – tied into my reduced signature boat gives special operation and our Navy the ability to clandestinely be someplace with the capability to act if circumstances allow.”

US Naval Special Group Special Warfare Combatant-craft Crewmen are specifically trained in night-time raids and close support of SEALS units in coastal waters and have possession of a flotilla of CB-90s.

NATO admit bombing inside Misrata

During the period that these munitions were used there was fierce fighting between rebel and loyalist forces with coalition forces providing firing support and special services support to the rebels in order to prevent loyalist forces retaking the town, which would have seen an end to the rebel’s last foothold in western Libya.

Our update on the bombing of Misrata shows that NATO admit to bombing using “certain weapons” within the city of Misrata.

....

The weapons systems trail.

A limited number of weapons systems can be used to fire the MAT-120 and these include the Combat Boat 90H (CB-90) with the AMOS system on board which is manufactured under licence in the USA by AAI Corp.

The United States leadership fully approve of cluster munitions

The USA has refused to sign the Convention against Cluster Munitions and these weapons are normal parts of their arsenal with the USA possessing a very large stockpile of cluster munitions.

US Defence Secretary Robert Gates has said cluster munitions are regarded by the US as:

“Legitimate weapons with clear military utility.”

In fact, Secretary Gates signed the policy on July 9 2008 that all cluster bombs in the US armoury should be of a similar type to the M-120 by 2018.

As Richard Kidd, Director of the Office of Weapons Removal and Abatement, U.S. Department of State, wrotein “Is There a Strategy for Responsible U.S. Engagement on Cluster Munitions?” April 28, 2008:

“Cluster munitions are available for use by every combat aircraft in the U.S. inventory, they are integral to every Army or Marine maneuver element and in some cases constitute up to 50 percent of tactical indirect fire support.”

Yet, the alleged war crime of bombing Misrata is also being used byUS Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and other authorities to justify an escalation of the conflict in Libya.

Human Rights Investigations calls for:

1). A full investigation into the possession and use of cluster munitions by all forces in the Libyan conflict with no impunity.

2). The suspension of military personnel found to be involved pending investigation and prosecution for war crimes.

3). A full investigation by the US authorities.

4). There should be investigations by the United Nations and by each of the nations participating in the coalition as the use of these munitions in a residential area is a clear violation of UN Resolution 1973, and

“those responsible for or complicit in attacks targeting the civilian population, including aerial and naval attacks, must be held to account.”

5). All members of the coalition, including the USA, Qatar and the United Arab Emirates to declare their use of cluster munitions and to sign the Convention on Cluster Munitions.

6). An end to the ‘information war’ and military distortion of the public debate.

7). An end to the ongoing bombing of Libya which is against the spirit and intent of UN Resolution 1973 which was intended to protect civilians, not justify bombing of civilian areas, never mind justify war crimes and the cluster bombing of Libyan cities.
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READ FULL REPORT

reply to post by confreak

The ongoing HRI investigation of the cluster bombing of Misrata in April 2011 has found convincing evidence the bombing was committed by US naval forces.

Again this group is supporting Gaddafi. www.facebook.com...



Here are some accounts from real people on the ground.

Drained after another marathon surgery session, Dr Ramadan Atewah shook his head at the callousness of the shelling carried by Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's forces. "Now they are using cluster bombs on us," he said. "The only aim of this is to terrify and kill civilians. Children especially are vulnerable because they think the bomblets are toys."

r Atewah, a 55-year-old Libyan who normally works as an NHS surgeon in Britain, was speaking to The Sunday Telegraph from the rebel-held city of Misurata, where Gaddafi's forces have kept a relentless siege over the past month. www.telegraph.co.uk...

Witnesses saw the cluster bombs explode in the overnight offensive. On Friday fragments of the Spanish made MAT-120 cargo mortar, which holds 21 smaller sub-munitions, were found. When scattered over a wide area, the bombs kill indiscriminately. Markings on the fragments show the mortars were made in Spain in 2007, which banned the weapon in 2008 The cluster bombs were made by the Spanish-based company Instalaza SA, which was still displaying similar wares on its website The firm said that the munitions were sold legally to Libya in 2008, prior to Spain ratifying a convention against the use of cluster bombs.

lot and serial number marking on some of the unexploded duds and the mortar bombs tail section, indicated that the MAT-120 mortar rounds had been sold to Libya in 2007.
This video was made by miusrata17miusrata freedom group the real deal on the ground.

New video uploaded to youtube claims to be an attack on Libya by NATO using cluster bombs.

www.youtube.com...