A message to our men and women in uniform

This message is for all of you, regardless of the uniform you wear and the means by which you are serving your community. Wether you are a soldier, Marine, Sailor, Police Officer, EMT or Fire Fighter, I want you to read and understand this message.

First, for those of you who serve with honor and valor, I salute you and thank you for your service. I know many of you have sacraficed much for us, and this does not go unnoticed. For those of you who use your uniform as a shield, and as an excuse to excercise brutality and control, I say shame on you. You are a disgrace to the uniform you wear, the people you serve (that's right, you serve your community) and the constitution you have sworn to uphold and protect. You know who you are, and you know you will get what you deserve soon enough.

I want all of you to look at yourself, next time you are wearing your uniform, and ask yourself the following questions:

1. Am I serving my community/country to the best of my ability?
2. Are my behaviours in line with the United States Constitution?
3. Are my orders in line with the United States Consitution?
4. Are my leaders acting in the best interest of my community/country?
5. Do I deserve to be thanked for my service? Or am I a symbol of what is going wrong with this Nation?

You alone are going to make the change needed to make this nation great once again. This nation is not about a flag, a national anthom and mindless chants of U....S....A! This is a nation that was founded by men of vision and principals, who wanted a place where a person could have freedom. Freedom of religion, freedom of expression and freedom of speech, yet we are now watching as our "leaders" are continually attacking those very same freedoms, and using you, our uniformed services as the enforcers of these unconstitutional changes.

We need you to stand up and be counted among the brave citizens who will take their oath to support and uphold our constitution seriously, and will say no to those who order you to violate that oath.

Say no to the bankers, who are stealing your pensions and insurance policies. Say no to the politicians who send you into illegal wars in pursuit of goals their paymasters have given them. Say no to the people who are tyring to make the United States into a reconstituted Soviet/Nazi empire using the very same techniques and measures those evil people used to control their people.

I pray that you read my message and take it seriously. It is up to you to make the change happen.

They don't care about you or me. They will get whats coming to them

reply to post by RowdyAmerican1


I think you are wrong. I think the majority of them are good, strong believers in what it means to be American. At least I pray that's true.

Nice post and absolutely correct. The men and women in uniform can make us or break us. if they would realize the foundation of all law is "no harm no crime" And stop arresting, detaining, and extorting money from people who have harmed no one but violated some man made statute and realize that these are mainly revenue generators and means of control then we could return to a free society.

Unfortunately the profile they now use to attract these enforcers attracts a lot of folks who would not care or listen to your message. Often when an honest man or women realizes what I said above they quite that job and move on and so we see increasingly aggressive and brutal type people joining the ranks and the increasing abuse we hear and see in the news.

Apparently, you have not a single clue as to what a "uniformed" service is there for in the first place. Nice post. Take a stab at the folks in uniform right on the eve of memorial Day. Feel good about yourself? Great. People who "volunteer" to serve in uniform don't do it as some kind of social experiment.The purpose they have is clear. They volunteer to eliminate our enemies. It's that simple. If you want social engineering, then get politically active, or move to Switzerland! But please, give crap like this a rest will ya? What a joke !!!!!

reply to post by CosmosKid


Man you just keep slurping that kool-aid. I have never been harmed physically or insulted by any group of people outside of this country. My enemy is right here at home, and they have killed more innocent civilians in the name of freedom than any of the supposed "enemies and freedom haters" they puke out in the main stream propaganda machine.

reply to post by Redwookieaz


Apparently, youi don't "get It" also. That's ok. Some of us do and some of use don't. Don't worry. You'll be ok. You just don't get it. It's really simple. But that's ok. Don't worry

reply to post by CosmosKid


Are you aware that when you enlist or are employed by most police forces one of the first things you do is take an oath to uphold the Constitution and to resist illegal orders? I've taken that oath twice personally.

Since I am not getting it, please do explain it to me so that I can get it.

reply to post by Hoosyourdaddyo

This message is for all of you, regardless of the uniform you wear and the means by which you are serving your community. Wether you are a soldier, Marine, Sailor, Police Officer, EMT or Fire Fighter, I want you to read and understand this message.

Roger that, standing by.

First, for those of you who serve with honor and valor, I salute you and thank you for your service. I know many of you have sacraficed much for us, and this does not go unnoticed.

Unnoticed, perhaps not. Undefined - it still is.

For those of you who use your uniform as a shield, and as an excuse to excercise brutality and control, I say shame on you. You are a disgrace to the uniform you wear, the people you serve (that's right, you serve your community) and the constitution you have sworn to uphold and protect.

Sheesh - I only got the military discount because I was telling the lady at the register why I was getting a hair cut and being specific about how it was blended.

You know who you are, and you know you will get what you deserve soon enough.

It's my experience that this type of statement is a sort of "catch all." "People in this crowd have made me angry! You know who you are, and when I lash out and attack you, you know that you deserved it!" It's just an excuse to haul off and make wild accusations and baseless attacks on people - "I've warned them!"

I want all of you to look at yourself, next time you are wearing your uniform, and ask yourself the following questions:

Will-do.

1. Am I serving my community/country to the best of my ability?

Kind of a loaded question. I do my job in the Navy to the best of my ability. Though I get the feeling you're going to try and twist this into what our jobs SHOULD be - which is a policy issue, not an issue of personal duty.

2. Are my behaviours in line with the United States Constitution?

Are we including amendments following the first ten, laws of congress, and presidential acts as they stand, or are we going on the pretense that any controversial law, act, or amendment and interpretations thereof are considered void?

I have my own views on how the country should work, and on what acts/laws/amendments should have never been - but that doesn't allow me to simply say they aren't.

Again - we have to clarify this issue before this question can be answered with any kind of relevance.

But, yes - I keep my actions within what is allowed under the constitution and the powers it grants our branches of government.

3. Are my orders in line with the United States Consitution?

See Question 2.

4. Are my leaders acting in the best interest of my community/country?

This is a dangerous line of thinking. The military comprises between 1 and 2 million personnel by time you throw in the Reserves and National Guard. That's less than 1% of the population (really, about 0.3% of it). Among us, there are plenty of differing views - though the vast majority tend to be conservatively principled.

What we believe is in the best interest of our country may seriously conflict with what popular polls indicate is the desire (and believed best-interest) of the country.

Expecting us to be the arbitrators of our own opinions while in effective control of weapons capable of leveling cities is not exactly the wisest thing to do.

5. Do I deserve to be thanked for my service? Or am I a symbol of what is going wrong with this Nation?

I'm a reservist - it's not like I am some kind of hero - sung or unsung. I don't really expect to receive thanks or really consider it a relevant consideration. Military service isn't a popularity contest. I'm glad to have the thanks when I get them - but I don't try and think in terms of "what kinds of kudos will I get for wearing my uniform around!?"

As far as what is going wrong in the country - everyone has a slightly different opinion of what is wrong. I can tell you plain-as-day what is wrong - we are no longer a union of states. We're a single state. The system is far too large and incapable of addressing the needs of different people with different ways of life, incomes, and concerns.

You seem to think the 'police state' is imminent and something to worry about. You've simply lost the forest for the trees.

You alone are going to make the change needed to make this nation great once again.

Because, you know, every time police and military forces have collectively usurped a civilian government - it's been a step in the right direction.

This nation is not about a flag, a national anthom and mindless chants of U....S....A! This is a nation that was founded by men of vision and principals, who wanted a place where a person could have freedom. Freedom of religion, freedom of expression and freedom of speech, yet we are now watching as our "leaders" are continually attacking those very same freedoms, and using you, our uniformed services as the enforcers of these unconstitutional changes.

You really don't get out much, do you?

We need you to stand up and be counted among the brave citizens who will take their oath to support and uphold our constitution seriously, and will say no to those who order you to violate that oath.

Pick your battles wisely.

For example - let's say I'm told to go investigate a kid for making threats on a forum about bringing some kind of harm against the President. I raise hell, say no, and call it unconstitutional. A record of the failure to follow an order is documented in my record and someone else is tasked.

Lose.

Or - I take it upon myself to investigate the situation and be as reasonable as possible while being as -personally- considerate of the individuals' rights as possible. I can't do anything about whatever "illegal" searches brought about the order for me to investigate.

Not a loss - not really a "win" - either.

'Bucking' the system is a calculated risk.

Now, let's say large portions of the reserves were mobilized in preparation to invade a state that decided to secede from the union (a rather plausible future scenario) and usurp its local government.

My actions, then, would depend largely upon my area of influence. If I had a lot - I would push for a force-wide stand-down while calling for an emergency convention of state governments to address the current issue. That presumes I have a hell of a lot of pull. Not exactly implausible, either - I've made rank in a locked-up rating consistently - Master Chief (with candidacy for a Command or Force position) is certainly within my career potential. So is running for a commission and competing within the officer ranks. Either active duty or reserve.

The point is - there are types of orders that are clearly in violation of the constitution and do not represent a reasonable measure taken for defense purposes. There are orders that amount to wastes of tax-payer dollars and man-hours (investigating kids making threats on internet forums) - and there are ones that seriously jeopardize the rights and well-being of the nation (launching an invasion of a seceding state would invariably lead to an open civil war that would rack up a hell of a body count and throw the entire concept of civil rights and our founding principles into chaos).

Debating issues like the Patriot Act and whether or not some guys showing up in suits to interview people constitutes rights violations is simply not something the people in uniform should be concerned about. They simply need to conduct themselves accordingly while undertaking those orders (which should be debated at a policy level rather than within the chain of command). Now, blatant orders like "seize all personal firearms" should be returned to the issuing authority via arrow-scroll to the heart - but the likelihood of that is low, barring extreme circumstances following natural disasters where derelict buildings are raided by gangs and criminals for weapons (yes, been there, settled that debate).

Say no to the bankers, who are stealing your pensions and insurance policies.

My bank account is doing just fine. What I really wish is that you idiots would stop taking out loans and racking up credit card debts to the tune of 2.5 times your total annual net income. That's the reason you see the concentration of wealth as you do - because the average person is financially insolvent and indebted to the point of living in what can only be described as slavery.

It came about because people started looking at the extra $50 left over in their pay-check as a $1200 computer on a 36-month payment plan.

And it's not like you all have not had the opportunity to disband the Federal Reserve and put the FDIC in check - or the warning that such an unholy alliance would cause troubles.

Say no to the politicians who send you into illegal wars in pursuit of goals their paymasters have given them.

It's not our job to determine whether or not a war with a foreign nation is illegal. That's the job of the officials you elect. Unless you want us to make elections irrelevant (as we'll just do what we think is right, anyway) - then I suggest you shoulder your own yoke.

Say no to the people who are tyring to make the United States into a reconstituted Soviet/Nazi empire using the very same techniques and measures those evil people used to control their people.

The sad thing is that America has been doing this to itself. You want to try and marginalize the effort and pin it upon "the politicians." There is no unified voice within America - there is no "the people" - there are 'these people' and 'those people' with 'other people' - each group has its own distinct way of life, ideals, and expectations of the government.

As you sit there and condemn the wars in Iraq - others cheer. As you sit there and claim it's for oil - others point out that we don't really get any from Iraq (nor do our "corporate task masters"). We turned this union of states into a single state long ago - decades upon decades before I was born - and now most of the people who brought the most significant of those changes about are dead and gone while their human legacy suffers the consequences of their political monstrosity.

I pray that you read my message and take it seriously. It is up to you to make the change happen.

No, my friend. It is up to you.

For me to stand up with a rifle and say: "this is the way we are going to do things from now on" is no different than a dictator commanding an army to execute his will upon the population. There are times when such intervention is necessary - but it is in such extreme cases - and only as a final gamble to prevent the onset of what could only be described as a catastrophe.

The military, police, etc are not going to be able to fix the problems and vanquish the demons that the civilian population created many decades ago. You may feel you've washed your hands of the issue - but your sentiments and attitude only serve to deny the truth that lie behind the matter.

reply to post by Aim64C


Very good counter-points AIM. There is validity to pretty much every contention you expressed. Sometimes those of us who are not or no longer active in the military have the luxury or capacity to consider things from perspectives that may not apply or be in anybody's best interests as it pertains to the military. Myself included.

That said, I would say that within those confines, you folks in the military still know right from wrong and I ask you to remember that you are member of the U.S. military second and a fellow human being first. This isn't just my home, it is yours too. Do right by your conscience.

I implore you to consider these things and to be sure that within the confines you have ethically and by law as a service member to not inadvertantly use them as a blanket to absolve yourself from the responsibility of doing what is right.

Thank you.

reply to post by Hoosyourdaddyo


I really believe that the majority of those who are members of the services which are primarily there to protect are true and decent people,your message should be to those at the top of the tree who time after time use the very values that the majority of those who serve hold dear to achieve their own agenda.

reply to post by CosmosKid


I served in uniform. Did you? I understand what it means, and what it meant when I swore to uphold and protect the Constitution of the United States. Do you?

Please re-read my original post. It was not intended as a swipe at those people who serve, but rather as a reminder of their oath that ALL of them have taken at the very start of their career, and who they serve.

reply to post by Aim64C


So answer me this... if your commander orders you to do something you know is wrong, and is against the constitution and against human decency, will you blindly follow orders? Or will you stand up and say no?

Now is the time for all of us to stand up for what we believe.

reply to post by Hoosyourdaddyo

So answer me this... if your commander orders you to do something you know is wrong, and is against the constitution and against human decency, will you blindly follow orders? Or will you stand up and say no?

Your raw adherence to ideology and principles is endearing, but completely impractical.

My job is to defend 'the people' from threats foreign and domestic and uphold the constitution. You interpret this to mean: "tell your CO when you think his orders are wrong and tell him to shove them up his rectum." I interpret this to mean: "Do everything within one's power to prevent and/or limit the impact of unlawful orders."

At present, my influence is rather small. I've got to be careful what cards I lay down on the table, and when. Such as my example, earlier - being told to follow up on a wire-tap that is only 'legal' under the Patriot Act. Telling the CO it's illegal and I won't do it does two things - first, it removes me from having any influence on how those orders are carried out (as I'm not going to do them). Second, it damages my ability to have any kind of influence on future orders.

This is important to keep in mind. Someone else will follow those orders. Their reasons for doing so are irrelevant to the fact that my adherence to principle got me 'fired' and the job was done by someone else, anyway. In that respect - have I succeeded in fulfilling the promise made in my oath?

No - I've failed.

I will follow the order and conduct myself in accordance with the oath taken.

You only want to make a power play when you know you are holding a powerful deck - refusing an order simply removes yourself from the game. If such grossly illegal orders are being given - you need to have the influence to be able to force a "time-out" while things are straightened out. You won't ever get that high in the chain with a history of insubordination. You'll simply be replaced.

Now is the time for all of us to stand up for what we believe.

To whom?

Here's the problem - it's not the national government that is the problem, per se.

I'm a conservative. I want to own property - not pay the government taxes for permission to continue to own it. I want to see businesses easier to start and with less government involvement in business affairs (inherently loosens the grip corporations have on government policy). I also would like to see the states return to the role of being the primary governing entities in people's lives - not the nation. I want to see social security closed down in a reasonable manner with an overhaul of Medicare/Medicaid programs as well as the disbanding of the Federal Reserve and serious attention paid to the role of the FDIC.

So, yes, I'm rather upset that Congress and my state government aren't getting around to doing those things. Some people who also have these views also have the view that the war in Iraq is 'illegal' (what law enforcement jurisdiction does that fall under, again?).

However, I know many people who want the government to make further regulations of businesses and banks. They want the government to take control of health insurance and standardize retirement plans. There are also people who think you shouldn't be allowed to build multi-million dollar mansions and should, instead, pay that back to the government.

They are also upset with Congress and the way things are going. Better still - a number of them also see Iraq as an illegal/unnecessary war.

So, we could all march hand-in-hand to tell Congress to GTFO. We're "standing up for what we believe in." And, for a time - we'll be standing united.

... Until the conservatives start to try and close down Social Security and loosen government regulation and involvement in business. Then someone on the other side of the room is going to start having a conniption fit.

We're no longer so united. Yet, how dedicated are we to the ideals we just stood up for? Dedicated enough to put a bullet into the head of someone who disagrees?

See where the problem is?

That doesn't even begin to address the obvious problem of the military suddenly deciding what is best for the nation and making it so. I admit - things would be much easier if you all would just do the things I tell you to do - so the concept is quite tempting... but it's not the right way to do things. I may be a rather benevolent and incorruptible dictator - but I'm as mortal as everyone else (despite what my ego tells me) - and it's best to not leave such authoritarian systems up for grabs.

I appreciate your well thought out replies. It's refreshing to have a conversation with someone who does more than spout one-liners.

I think you and I are on the same page in many ways. I just hope that it never gets to the point where you will face a moral dilemna from orders you're given by your commanders. Firing on American civilians for instance (I pray this situation never presents itself to anyone in uniform).

reply to post by Redwookieaz


Here's what I'm getting at about the oath of enlistment. When you take it, you are asked to support and defend the constitution of the US against all enemies foreign and domestic. You say you will execute the orders of the commander in chief. That pretty much means, you follow ALL orders that you are instructed to execute. If you feel, at any time, that the order you have been given is "unlawfull" you are not obligated to carry out that order, however there may be repercussions if you do or do not execute the order. I am absolutely sure that at some time and in some places the orders that you execue, may after the fact, be determined to have been unlawfull, and that bad things have happened. War works that way. But that's what you do when you enlist. You go to war. War is only supposed to work one way. The most immoral thing about a war comes down to one thing. Losing one. But, in the end, the real problem is, even the commander in chief does not have the authority to declare war on behalf of the USA. People in uniform, who volunteer, who accept a commision, are there for one reason, and one reason only. Support and defend the constitution of the USA. That means at all times. The purpose of the armed forces isn't "defense". It's offense. It's to ensure you maintain the capability to completely and utterly neutralize whoever the "legislative" branch of the federal government deems to be our adversary. Apparently, we haven't learned the stupidity of NOT declaring war on someone BEFORE we commit our troops to combat. But there is one prime purpose for the military. To kill things. People. Munitions. Factories. Food Supplies. Lines of communication. Command and control centers. Thats why we have a military and thats what it's supposed to be for. Not for achieving political solutions to foreign policy issues. Our armed forces are supposed to be used to engage and destroy other armed forces. That's what I'm trying to communicate. That using them for the supposed reasons we are doing now in Iraq, and A-Stan, and Libya are NOT supported by the "war" powers act, and it's B.S. to continue on trying to use the "war on terrorism" excuse, because to use the term "war", you need to declare it. The deployments to Iraq, and A-stan and now Libya should NEVER have happened. But if you want to identify whose responsible for putting our troops between a rock and a hard place, that would be the duly elected members of the legislative branch of the federal government. Becuase no matter what your ideaology on the whole situation is, if the legislative branch and the joint chiefs of staff can't figure out that the "constitution" doesn't support these deployments but the commander in chief says go and do it anyway, the troops don't really get a say, they have to go, and THEY are the ones that end up holding the bag! Because the legislative branch and the Joint chiefs apparently don't have a CLUE about what a lawfull order is or how the constitution actually works. It's almost like saying "guns kill people", which of course is wrong. Kinetic energy does!

reply to post by Hoosyourdaddyo


First, for those of you who serve with honor and valor, I salute you and thank you for your service. I know many of you have sacraficed much for us, and this does not go unnoticed. For those of you who use your uniform as a shield, and as an excuse to excercise brutality and control, I say shame on you. You are a disgrace to the uniform you wear, the people you serve (that's right, you serve your community) and the constitution you have sworn to uphold and protect. You know who you are, and you know you will get what you deserve soon enough.

I want all of you to look at yourself, next time you are wearing your uniform, and ask yourself the following questions:

1. Am I serving my community/country to the best of my ability?
2. Are my behaviours in line with the United States Constitution?
3. Are my orders in line with the United States Consitution?
4. Are my leaders acting in the best interest of my community/country?
5. Do I deserve to be thanked for my service? Or am I a symbol of what is going wrong with this Nation?

Yes, I served in uniform from 1977-1997 in the US Navy. It's in my profile. Almost every watch that I stood while in the NAVY was a front row seat to Armegedeon. If it was Armegedeon, and I was on watch, I would have known it BEFORE the Commander-in-Chief did. Was I ever engaged in operations that resulted in the loss of civilian lives? Yes. Does it sit well with me? No. Did I ever execute an order that I thought was unlawful? No.
Are the armed forces of the USA deployed currently to Iraq, A-stan, Libya and who knows were else ever in a situation were they are executing what, after the fact, may be considered "unlawfull" orders, I am certain that this is the case, because even though war hasn't been declared in these theaters and on these countries, some dumbass somewhere thought it would be a good idea to use the military. And that is the nature a war, as it has always been. Are there members of the US armed forces that willfully and knowingly commit what could be considered war crimes? I am certain, again, as this is the nature of war. Do some of them get brought to justice. Yes, as evidenced by those individuals who are now imprisoned for doing just such a thing. Do these same individuals do this only because they are in uniform? No, because in the end, ever single person on this planet is just an angry monkey with access to technology! Do people who take the oath of enlistment serve they're community? No, the serve the commander-in-chief and his desiganted representatives. Are my behaviors while "in uniform" in line with the constitution? No, they are in line with the uniform code of militray justice and the code of conduct which specifically governs the legal actions of those who serve in uniform. What do I expect people who see our soldiers in uniform to feel when they see them show up on they're soil? I expect for they're blood to run cold. If thatt doesn't happen, then what's the point? Yes, I served in uniform for 20 years. Yes, I had to execute and issue lawfull orders. Yes, I think I understand the purpose of what the armed forces of the USA are supposed to be used for. Yes, some of my friends never came home. Yes, some of them did, but not in one piece body or soul. And yes, in my opinion, those who have worn the uniform are never the same as they were before they did, sometimes for better, and sometimes for the worse. But they are after all only human, and sometimes just being that is almost to much to bear. But I am glad to have worn the uniform myself, and feel and have never regretted the decision to do so. I have always considered it to be the "best" time of my life and will be eternally greatful for the opportunity to serve with my fellow citizens. As did my daughter who served with pride and homor from 2001 to 2011. And if we are lucky, all those other citizens who will now and in the future take the oath, and say "I will". And by the way, when we're all asking ourselves those five questions you enumerated above, how far would a bullet travel?

reply to post by Hoosyourdaddyo


I will forward this opening text to my brother. He's a senior flight medic - you know, the guy that arrives in the helicopter to pull pieces of your body out of a smashed up car that you wrecked while you were out celebrating your "freedom" and "constitutional rights" by downing a couple of 6-packs and then getting behind a wheel.

I'll tell you one thing though - he certainly doesn't do it for the pay or because he feels he needs to prove anything to anyone