Chemtrails, Trolls, and Deer Poop.

reply to post by coyotepoet

Your video didn't give the info for number 2 so that is a useless comment. Did you even watch your own video, because you do have a habit of not watching what you post

How can one make assumptions about people and where they have been beyond what they say without evidence? Like you just did with me. Prove that I haven't watched things I've posted. Prove it! Again, how do you know what I've watched and what I haven't?

Still waiting for that proof that you have that I have a habit of not watching the videos I post TSurfer. Or are you just going to make baseless accusations with nothing to back them up and just disappear? Still waiting for that proof...

And since you are in the habit of making baseless accusations like that, it calls into question all of the other statements you make about, oh, say chemtrails vs contrails. Still waiting for you to prove that I don't watch what I post, but then I'll be waiting for a while because you can't.

This is the closest I've ever been to being offended here on ATS. I usually do not take being equated to poop lightly. Your analogy is wrong, but the difference between what you say and what I think is about as wide a chasm as that you believe in "chemtrails" and I do not.

But I have, in fact, equated someone to poop, myself. Not this exact analogy, but close. I still stand by stand at the time, as you stand by yours.

However, your tone is different. You have not requested civility. Your only suggestion of how the debates should be allowed to run is censorship. If I do not have the same opinion as your's, then I just shouldn't speak.

Censorship, in any form other than legal or moral reasons (such as child porn), is offensive to me. It's a public forum and there will be dissenting views. If you don't like my tone, don't respond to me. If you feel my wording is somehow offensive to you personally, report it. If I say something that is not correct, point it out; I want to learn, too. But do not ever suggest I have no right or place to respond to any post on this or any other open forum. You came within millimeters of doing just that in the OP, in my opinion.
I will fight this to the end whenever and wherever I encounter it. ATS is free and open when you play by the rules. If you don't like free and open discussions about any topic, don't whine about it when you come here. Start your own site and choose what people can say and think.
People will always disagree with each other. Deal with it. Don't suggest someone should not be able to respond. You don't have that right.

reply to post by stars15k

Wrong thread.
This thread has pretty much been civil, and nothing in the OP suggested censorship. I am quite sure a pedophile would be offended by your post, so it is not surprising that SOMEONE would be offended by my premise for this thread.
Thanks for posting.

reply to post by coyotepoet


So then since you nor your video have any idea about where these people lived or worked in their lifetime they automatically have not been exposed in any way in the past but have been exposed lately am I correct on that?

So without any background info on these test subjects you have no proof of any prior exposure, kind of puts a little problem in the info your video provides. Without background info you have nothing except that these people may have been exposed at some time in their lives. Also as been shown by Phage there was nothing out of the parameters of the test.Maybe you should check his prior posts.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h

So then since you nor your video have any idea about where these people lived or worked in their lifetime they automatically have not been exposed in any way in the past but have been exposed lately am I correct on that?

No. I never stated anything beyond what the person in the video said on their site that I listed howver,

Atleclerk made the assumption:

He had unusually high levels of elements that occur naturally in the soil. Maybe he should stop playing in the dirt?

My question is, if there is no proof of what this person does or where they have been in the video how could Atleclerk correctly make the assumption that it was just from him digging in the dirt too much? Presumably the person in the video that had their blood tested knows where they have been enough to be concerned. So if nobody here but the guy who is concerned about his blood levels knows where he has been how can Atleclerk make the assumption that he made with such certainty?

Also as been shown by Phage there was nothing out of the parameters of the test.Maybe you should check his prior posts.

Why should I check Phage's posts? Did he have direct contact with all of the labs that took all of those samples? Why would Phage saying something autimatically make it so?

And when reported normal is 10, that's quite the difference, even with the range.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/74f5d9b32a49.jpg[/atsimg]


Also, nice sidestep. I'm still waiting for proof for your statement that I have a habit of not watching the videos I post. You didn't address that at all in your response.

Originally posted by weedwhacker

Are you saying that people aren't claiming that chemtrails are used for weather modification?

NO....I AM claiming that only ignorant, misguided hoaxers and myth pushers are claiming that "chem"-trails exist, and are being used for ANY NUMBER of ridiculous *purposes*. It is utter nonsense, all of it.

So then you don't think chemtrails can be used for weather modification?

Are you already back-tracking on facts that you just admitted to exist?

China plans to halt rain for Beijing Olympics

'Weather modification' team will manipulate the clouds in summer to try to keep the open-air stadium dry.

travel.latimes.com...


Do you want to see Congressional bills where the military asked for Congress to openly fund these same programs in the US?


I guess your argument just boils down to blind faith that the military wouldn't do something covertly, after being denied the right to do it in the open.




Btw... "Those are contrails." "Those are contrails." "Those are contrails." "Those are contrails." Do you think repetition makes something automatically true? You're ridiculous.

If that's the case then, "Those are chemtrails." "Those are chemtrails." "Those are chemtrails." "Those are chemtrails."






An educational video for you:





Here's a Chinese chemtrail over the same stadium where the Olympics were held, that the article above is about:



Let me guess, that's a contrail too? What do you think the Chinese chemtrails actually look like then, that they admitted to in the above article? I'd like to see so I can tell the difference as well as you can.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h

So without any background info on these test subjects you have no proof of any prior exposure, kind of puts a little problem in the info your video provides. Without background info you have nothing except that these people may have been exposed at some time in their lives.

I just have what the people themselves have said. Apparently Phage and adeclerk know better than the people that are experiencing it though? Is that what I am reading from your response?

Originally posted by coyotepoet
And when reported normal is 10, that's quite the difference, even with the range.

no - "Reported normal" means that if there is less than 10 they just give a report "Normal" because they cannot measure it.

the "Reporting limit" (11 mcg/l) is the BOTTOM limit of what they can measure!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/74f5d9b32a49.jpg[/atsimg]

the actual normal range of barium in blood is

Normal human blood contains 0.08-0.4 mg Ba/l

- that's 80-400 mcg/l - so the 250 reported is a little high, but well within expected levels.

Source - www.speclab.com...

Yet again chemmies read something, dont' understand it, and post what they would like it to mean - ANOTHER case of normal levels being reported as high!!

BTW the original poster of this info over at the intel hub has been advised that his conclusions are wrong, and refused to retract them............and you wonder why "we debunkers" get mad in the face of bad chemmie science??

reply to post by coyotepoet


Correct, I can safely say that I know more about basic science, meteorology and logic than any 'chemtrailer'.

Originally posted by bsbray11

An educational video for you:

Yes we've seen it many times before - and always the same question - how do you know the 2 a/c are flying in identical atmospheric conditions?

Here's a Chinese chemtrail over the same stadium where the Olympics were held, that the article above is about:

that line of high cloud doesn't look like a contrail at all - it looks like a line of high cloud!

The Chinese used cloud seeding to modify the weather at the olympics - see science.howstuffworks.com...

And note this:

Run by the Weather Modification Department, a division of the Chinese Academy of Meteorological Sciences, the program employs and trains 32,000 to 35,000 people across China, some of them farmers, who are paid to handle anti-aircraft guns and rocket launchers [source: Aiyar]. These heavy-duty weapons launch pellets containin­g silver iodide into clouds. Silver iodide is thought to concentrate moisture and cause rain, a process known as cloud seeding. China has invested heavily in this technology, using more than 12,000 anti-aircraft guns and rocket launchers in addition to about 30 planes [source: Aiyar].

they use ANTI-AIRCRAFT GUNS AND ROCKETS - they also used a few aircraft - but chemmies have seen "Weather modification" and hey presto - every linear high level cloud over Beijing becomes a chemtrail!!

And "they" accuse "us" of not doing research??!!

Let me guess, that's a contrail too?

no it's just a linear high level cloud of the sort that often preceeds a front.

What do you think the Chinese chemtrails actually look like then, that they admitted to in the above article?

The article you linked to mentions 30 aircraft, and thousands of anti-aircraft guns and rockets being used - nothing about chemtrials - you're making it up - more chemmie fantasy !

reply to post by Stewie


What is it exactly you and other chemtrail believers want?

It's all well and good claiming that the "same people" keep showing up and spoiling your fun with scientific facts, but I've got news for you....the "same people" keep showing up and making ridiculous and unfounded claims that the general population of the planet are being sprayed with something!

So I ask again "what do you want"?.....do you want a forum where only chemtrail believers are allowed to post? (there was a thread recently where a chemtrail believer actually asked for this!)

Do you want the "same people" banned from participating in any discussion?

So what if the "same people" tip up in every chemtrail thread and add a modicum of scientific evidence to debunk the subject, maybe it's because they know what they are talking about, and this being a discussion forum where topics are debated they have something to offer.

Stop making out like your not being allowed to get your point across, or that you are being bullied or attacked, this is the internet for gods sake!, and from what I've seen "chemmies" certainly give as much as they get!

reply to post by adeclerk

Correct, I can safely say that I know more about basic science, meteorology and logic than any 'chemtrailer'.

Which is why I guess that the majority percentage of your posts are on chemtrails and the others are about how birthers are wrong and water flouridation isn't bad for you. (A bit off topic but apparently skeptic=towing the line on any official story.)

Originally posted by bsbray11

And again, the same photo of the KLM 747 airliner, as a chemtrail plane.

Funny how chemtrailers repost that photo over and over, strip out the copyright, and neglect to tell anyone what that aircraft actually is or what airline it is from. Now that, is disingenuous. Why would you do that?

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
Yes we've seen it many times before - and always the same question - how do you know the 2 a/c are flying in identical atmospheric conditions?

Ohhh so finally we have an open question and not just definitive statements huh? How do you know they aren't?

Here's a Chinese chemtrail over the same stadium where the Olympics were held, that the article above is about:

that line of high cloud doesn't look like a contrail at all - it looks like a line of high cloud!

Here's another:



infranetlab.org...

That photo comes in direct relation to Chinese media writing about weather modification attempts in regards to the 2008 Olympics in Beijing.

Looks like a contrail to me, but is it? Not according to the Chinese apparently.

The Chinese used cloud seeding to modify the weather at the olympics - see science.howstuffworks.com...

And note this:

Run by the Weather Modification Department, a division of the Chinese Academy of Meteorological Sciences, the program employs and trains 32,000 to 35,000 people across China, some of them farmers, who are paid to handle anti-aircraft guns and rocket launchers [source: Aiyar]. These heavy-duty weapons launch pellets containin­g silver iodide into clouds. Silver iodide is thought to concentrate moisture and cause rain, a process known as cloud seeding. China has invested heavily in this technology, using more than 12,000 anti-aircraft guns and rocket launchers in addition to about 30 planes [source: Aiyar].

they use ANTI-AIRCRAFT GUNS AND ROCKETS - they also used a few aircraft - but chemmies have seen "Weather modification" and hey presto - every linear high level cloud over Beijing becomes a chemtrail!!

Yes, the weather modification rockets shot from trucks look like this:



Btw I just posted a new thread about all this here: www.abovetopsecret.com...


But what about the airplanes they have dumping chemicals? What do those look like????? Contrails?

The article you linked to mentions 30 aircraft, and thousands of anti-aircraft guns and rockets being used - nothing about chemtrials - you're making it up - more chemmie fantasy

!

You admit the website itself mentions 30 aircraft being used to drop chemicals, for weather modification. How in the hell is that me making it up?

Originally posted by firepilot
And again, the same photo of the KLM 747 airliner, as a chemtrail plane.

Funny how chemtrailers repost that photo over and over, strip out the copyright, and neglect to tell anyone what that aircraft actually is or what airline it is from. Now that, is disingenuous. Why would you do that?

Ah yeah, just insinuate I'm lying without explaining what exactly I'm not telling about this.

What do you think it's dumping, then?

Here's another one:



What do you know, no "contrails." So what's the difference then?

reply to post by bsbray11

What do you know, no "contrails." So what's the difference then?

Different atmospheric conditions maybe?

Originally posted by Argyll

What do you know, no "contrails." So what's the difference then?

Different atmospheric conditions maybe?

Maybe?


Come on people, aren't you supposed to be debunking something? Don't tell me you're leaving it as an open question now. That is an awful lot of crap coming out of the back of that plane in the image above.

Originally posted by bsbray11


Ah yeah, just insinuate I'm lying without explaining what exactly I'm not telling about this.

What do you think it's dumping, then?

Here's another one:

What do you know, no "contrails." So what's the difference then?

It was not dumping anything. Here is the original, with all the information that the chemtrailers neglect to mention when they post it. Sure was nice of the chemtrail promoters to steal someones photo.

l.airliners.net...

And of course that one in your photo just is not making contrails, its right above the ground landing.

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
Yes we've seen it many times before - and always the same question - how do you know the 2 a/c are flying in identical atmospheric conditions?

Ohhh so finally we have an open question and not just definitive statements huh?

finally nothing - it's been on ATS god knows how many times - it is only news to you!

How do you know they aren't?

I don't know. I didn't say they were. I asked you how you know they aren't - you are hte one saying they are chemtails and not "normal" contrails - so how do you know that?

You admit the website itself mentions 30 aircraft being used to drop chemicals, for weather modification. How in the hell is that me making it up?

Because it has nothing at all to do with chemtrails - it is a typical confusion that new chemmie faithful exhibit.

I know you're not making up the info about cloud seeding - I say you are making up the story that cloud seeding is "chemtrails".

Now of course I guess you're going to go and say that any chemicals released into the sky are chemtrails?

If so, then why are you not complaining about the exhaust of every single aircraft, whether visible or not?? The exhaust is still there even when you can't see it - it has jsut as many chemicals in it as when you CAN see it.......

But let me give you some advice - there is a generally accepted definition for chemtrails that even debunkers & (most) chemmies agree on -

The chemtrail conspiracy theory holds that some trails left by aircraft are actually chemical or biological agents deliberately sprayed at high altitudes for a purpose undisclosed to the general public in clandestine programs directed by government officials.

- en.wikipedia.org...

So let's examine cloud seeding against that:

1/ Chemical or biological - chemical - true
2/ high altitude - no
3/ purpose undisclosed/clandestine programme - no
4/ directed by Govt officials - usually, but not always - cloud seeding has also occasionally been contracted for by farmers, electricity generators, etc.

so it fails on 2 of 4 counts, and partially on a 3rd.

Now if you want to argue that there's another definition of chemtrails that we should be aware of then by all means do so, but remember to include:

1/ Rocket exhausts
2/ Airshow smoke trails (& other trails for visibility such as target drones)
3/ Firefighting "chemdumps"
4/ Invisible exhaust
5/ Agricultural & other industrial spraying (such as the corexit on oil spills)

after all they al fit any definition of chemicals dumped by aircraft in flight too.....

reply to post by coyotepoet


Maybe you remember this video.



Typical contrails yet you contend that they are chemtrails because everything that comes from youtube claiming to be chemtrails are just that at least this video seems to suggest that.

www.abovetopsecret.com...