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EX-MARINE shot in home/ what the police really think
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Came across this website, and find myself dumbfounded. What do you think and this is just one page.
______________________________________
Marine Survives Two Tours in Iraq, SWAT Kills Him
Tim Cavanaugh | May 16, 2011
"Please send me an ambulance and you can ask more questions later, please!"
Guerena tells the dispatcher that her husband had returned home about 6:30 a.m. after work and was sleeping.
Prompted by the dispatcher, Guerena says her husband was shot in the stomach and hands.
The dispatcher asks Guerena to put her cheek next to her husband's nose and mouth to see if he's breathing, but she replies in Spanish that her husband is face- down.
The operator tells Guerena to grab a cloth and apply pressure to his wounds, but the wife responds frantically: "I can't! I can't! There's a bunch of people outside of my house. I don't know what the heck is happening!"
A dispatcher asks if the people outside are the SWAT members. "I think it's the SWAT, but they ... Oh my God!" Guerena says.
A dispatcher asks that she open the door for the SWAT, but Guerena replies that the door was already opened by police.
"Is anybody coming? Is anybody coming?" she asks.
The operator tells Guerena help is on the way, but they're still trying to figure out what happened.
"I don't know, that's it, whatever I told you, that's it," Guerena says.
Just after the five-minute mark, Guerena's end of the line goes silent.
The two dispatchers spend about four minutes talking to each other and calling out for Guerena while trying to figure out if the call is coming from the same residence where the warrant was served. At the end of the 10-minute 911 call, a dispatcher says she has confirmation that Guerena is outside with deputies on the scene.
This is from Arizona Daily Star reporter Fernanda Echavarri's effort to piece together the death of Jose Guerena, 26, at the hands of a Pima County, Arizona SWAT team. Guerena, who joined the Marines in 2002 and served two tours in Iraq, was killed just after 9 a.m. May 5. Guerera had just gone to bed after working a 12-hour shift at a local mine when his home was invaded as part of a multi-house crackdown by sheriff's deputies.
Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden, Guerena died with his wife close by. Widow Vanessa Guerena, who hid with her four-year-old son when sheriff's deputies raided the home, fills in detail that has been slow to come from Pima County Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik’s office:
"When I came out the officers dragged me through the kitchen and took me outside, and that's when I saw him laying there gasping for air," Vanessa Guerena said. "I kept begging the officers to call an ambulance that maybe he could make it and that my baby was still inside."
The little boy soon after walked out of the closet on his own. SWAT members took him outside to be with his mother.
"I never imagined I would lose him like that, he was badly injured but I never thought he could be killed by police after he served his country," Vanessa Guerena said.
The family's 5-year-old son was at school that morning and deputies say they thought Guerena's wife and his other child would also be gone when they entered the home.
Guerena says there were no drugs in their house.
Deputies said they seized a "large sum of money from another house" that morning. But they refused to say from which of the homes searched that morning they found narcotics, drug ledgers or drug paraphernalia. Court documents showing what was being sought and was found have not been made public. A computer check on Guerena revealed a couple of traffic tickets and no criminal history.
Tucson KGUN’s Joel Waldman says the SWAT team prevented paramedics from going to work on Guerena for one hour and fourteen minutes.
The sheriff’s department maintains that Guerena was holding an AR-15 when the paramilitary force fired 71 bullets in his home, but other key parts of the government story have collapsed. While PCSD initially claimed Guerena fired the weapon he was alleged to have been holding, the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler:
A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot, [PCSD spokesman Michael] O'Connor said.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 09:06 AM #2
just joe
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Obviously journalistic sensationalism and there not enough information provided to make an informed opinion.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 11:51 AM #3
PhilipCal
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We've heard only one side here. That of the media. They revel in this type of story. Believe them if you so choose. I'm waiting for the rest of the story. I personally do my best to not be influenced by the likes of David Gregory, Brian Williams, Andrea Mitchell, and the rest of the talking heads.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 12:09 PM #4
Murf425
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Originally Posted by 1082
...the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic...
Not weighing in on the story since, as has been pointed out, we don't know it. Just saying that, anytime I hear about raids such as this, that's always my biggest fear. If I were the suspect, and I had a squad of officers all drawn down on me, even with my hands up and unarmed I'd be ****ting myself thinking, "Please, God...don't let one of them sneeze." 'Cause if that first shot is fired...
Lt. Col. Grace - "Lt. Murphey, why are you all dressed up to mack on the ladies?"
Me - "Sir, you just answered your own question."
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 01:23 PM #5
jannino
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Originally Posted by Murf425
Not weighing in on the story since, as has been pointed out, we don't know it. Just saying that, anytime I hear about raids such as this, that's always my biggest fear. If I were the suspect, and I had a squad of officers all drawn down on me, even with my hands up and unarmed I'd be ****ting myself thinking, "Please, God...don't let one of them sneeze." 'Cause if that first shot is fired...
Or it's the dead of night, you hear your door kicked down... you grab a gun to see what's going on and it's a SWAT team that mistakenly raided your house.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 01:26 PM #6
needguidance
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"Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden, Guerena died with his wife close by."
That's a little much isn't it?
"..you'll never be great without taking a chance.."
Diamond Eyes
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 01:32 PM #7
Carbonfiberfoot
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The drug war: The policing of non-violent, consensual crimes with very violent, volatile tactics.
A map of botched drug raids in America: www.cato.org...
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 01:32 PM #8
just joe
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No, no, no....That's journalistic integrity at its finest.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 01:35 PM #9
willowdared
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azstarnet.com...
excerpt:
A dispatcher asks that she open the door for the SWAT, but Guerena replies that the door was already opened by police.
"Is anybody coming? Is anybody coming?" she asks.
The operator tells Guerena help is on the way, but they're still trying to figure out what happened.
"I don't know, that's it, whatever I told you, that's it," Guerena says.
Just after the five-minute mark, Guerena's end of the line goes silent.
The two dispatchers spend about four minutes talking to each other and calling out for Guerena while trying to figure out if the call is coming from the same residence where the warrant was served. At the end of the 10-minute 911 call, a dispatcher says she has confirmation that Guerena is outside with deputies on the scene.
Other audio records Drexel Heights released to the Star Friday indicate the agency dispatched a medical unit at 9:43 a.m. but was told by the Sheriff's Department to hold off.
Dispatchers said there were several addresses where the SWAT team was going that morning and they were not sure if this house was one of them, the audio shows.
The Sheriff's Department dispatcher said she had not received any requests for medical help from deputies on scene. Drexel Heights fire dispatcher asked: "You don't want us going in, right?" The sheriff's operator then said: "I don't know what is going on. You guys go ahead and hold off until we know what it's going to be."
The Sheriff's Department operator said people at the scene wanted the medical help to stay back because they might be dealing with a "barricaded subject."
Molly Weasley makes Chuck Norris eat his vegetables.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 01:54 PM #10
Dingo990
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Read two paragraphs and decided that article was an extremely biased editorial, not actual news. Find a real news story with facts and then I'll consider discussing the article.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 02:04 PM #11
BigW
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Typical media hype. It's always the bad guy is innocent until proven guilty. However, law enforcement is always guilty and when proven innocent we're still hated for it.......
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 02:04 PM #12
Murf425
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Originally Posted by jannino
Or it's the dead of night, you hear your door kicked down... you grab a gun to see what's going on and it's a SWAT team that mistakenly raided your house.
I don't remember any posts you may have made in that thread well enough to know if you're being serious or not...
Lt. Col. Grace - "Lt. Murphey, why are you all dressed up to mack on the ladies?"
Me - "Sir, you just answered your own question."
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 02:07 PM #13
yellowreef
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Originally Posted by jannino
Or it's the dead of night, you hear your door kicked down... you grab a gun to see what's going on and it's a SWAT team that mistakenly raided your house.
No one said anything about mistaken address. Unfortunately, having served and having a full time job, wife and kids doesn't necessarily mean someone can't be up to no good. Working narc in a military town I see it all the time. The article wants you to think they got the wrong house by painting a picture of a standup guy, but like I said thats not always true just given those facts.
Last edited by yellowreef; 05-19-2011 at 02:09 PM.
"You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall... I have neither the time, nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it."
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 02:37 PM #14
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Geez O'Pete, We don't get that outrageous kind of liberal bias out of the newspapers even here in Detroit!
As to the the War on Drugs, it's only a victimless crime till you start counting bodies. I doubt the cartels would just give up their murderous business practices if we only made drugs legal.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 02:52 PM #15
Carbonfiberfoot
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Originally Posted by Unistat
...As to the the War on Drugs, it's only a victimless crime till you start counting bodies. I doubt the cartels would just give up their murderous business practices if we only made drugs legal.
A few people still die in the alcohol trade, but not nearly as many as did during prohibition. *The effects of alcohol still kill PLENTY.
If the street value on their product drops 90% overnight, the primary target of the cartels would probably be the politicians who successfully proposed the legislation.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 03:23 PM #16
jannino
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Originally Posted by Murf425
I don't remember any posts you may have made in that thread well enough to know if you're being serious or not...
Yes, I'm serious. I'm not referencing this article because it's too vague to know anything. I was just referring to a situation I hope to NEVER find myself in. I don't lose any sleep over it.. it's just something that came to mind when you mentioned being at gunpoint by several officers. It would scare the crap out of me too!
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 03:27 PM #17
biodole
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Originally Posted by Unistat
Geez O'Pete, We don't get that outrageous kind of liberal bias out of the newspapers even here in Detroit!
As to the the War on Drugs, it's only a victimless crime till you start counting bodies. I doubt the cartels would just give up their murderous business practices if we only made drugs legal.
Speaking as an officer, I really have to say that you made an incorrect statement.
The war on drugs is what causes cartels, drug-runners, and all the drug crime imaginable. During prohibition of alcohol, crime skyrocketed and the birth of organized crime occurred. Once prohibition was lifted, violent crime dropped exponentially, and alcohol related crime sank to unprecedented levels.
Let's all be adults here and realize something. If a person wants to do something to THEIR OWN body...why should that be illegal? If a person commits a crime under the influence of drugs (just as if they did sober), the penalty should be firm and harsh.
When there is a substance made illegal (contraband), you now have the ability to procure and sell it illegally to justify profits. If drugs were legal, major pharmaceutical companies like phizer or merck would "safely" manufacture it for pennies on the dollar and there would be no more profit for drug cartels and local dealers alike. When was the last time you saw someone selling beer on the corner? Or when was the last time you heard of a whiskey smuggling operation? How about the last time that 17 people were killed in a gunfight over tequila? The crime goes away. Sure, there might be more junkies...but who cares? Let them kill themselves. Would certainly free up a lot of breathing room for the rest of us.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 03:30 PM #18
jcioccke
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Not enough information for me to make any judgment. Regardless there is a 5 year old without a father today. It may be the father's fault or not. Only time will tell.
Needguidance, I agree that was way too much of a reference.
Quote Originally Posted by vincelli
Let me put it politely. Your statement is grossly incorrect. In fact, it is so incorrect that we probably need to provide scientists with a grant to develop a "Scale of Incorrectness", at the top of which would be your statement.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 03:32 PM #19
jannino
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Originally Posted by yellowreef
No one said anything about mistaken address. Unfortunately, having served and having a full time job, wife and kids doesn't necessarily mean someone can't be up to no good. Working narc in a military town I see it all the time. The article wants you to think they got the wrong house by painting a picture of a standup guy, but like I said thats not always true just given those facts.
I was responding to Murf's comment of being at gunpoint by several officers and someone having an accidental discharge. I was just adding to that another situation that would be absolutely scary and awful to be in.
I don't know anything about the article. Only thing that stands out to me is that the agency isn't releasing why they were at the house? Is that normal?
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 03:47 PM #20
beachcop05
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Originally Posted by jannino
I don't know anything about the article. Only thing that stands out to me is that the agency isn't releasing why they were at the house? Is that normal?
Yes it is. If there is an investigation still pending.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 04:28 PM #21
mdrdep
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Well there's another few minutes of my time down the drain.
Today's Quote:
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
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Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 04:55 PM #22
Vorkon
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Originally Posted by biodole
Speaking as an officer, I really have to say that you made an incorrect statement.
The war on drugs is what causes cartels, drug-runners, and all the drug crime imaginable. During prohibition of alcohol, crime skyrocketed and the birth of organized crime occurred. Once prohibition was lifted, violent crime dropped exponentially, and alcohol related crime sank to unprecedented levels.
Let's all be adults here and realize something. If a person wants to do something to THEIR OWN body...why should that be illegal? If a person commits a crime under the influence of drugs (just as if they did sober), the penalty should be firm and harsh.
When there is a substance made illegal (contraband), you now have the ability to procure and sell it illegally to justify profits. If drugs were legal, major pharmaceutical companies like phizer or merck would "safely" manufacture it for pennies on the dollar and there would be no more profit for drug cartels and local dealers alike. When was the last time you saw someone selling beer on the corner? Or when was the last time you heard of a whiskey smuggling operation? How about the last time that 17 people were killed in a gunfight over tequila? The crime goes away. Sure, there might be more junkies...but who cares? Let them kill themselves. Would certainly free up a lot of breathing room for the rest of us.
I yell this same thing often, Even though I do not do drugs, never have did a drug, Or like anyone around that does them. I do not feel there should be a law or government intrusion in someones life as to what they do in their homes "On this topic".
Once they step into society or general public and commit a crime then there are laws that will take into action. IMO
Originally Posted by EKV123
~sigh~ You guys are really some strange individuals..
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 05:46 PM #23
BAinCJ
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For the police version of this incident, read the following and watch the video
www.kgun9.com...
Living it one day at a time.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 07:01 PM #24
medica430
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"Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden, Guerena died with his wife close by."
Yeppers. This is the exact point where my short attention span kicked in and I started daydreaming about my lunch date with Jennifer Aniston.
Last edited by medica430; 05-19-2011 at 07:03 PM. Reason: Added Quote.
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Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 07:06 PM #25
pulicords
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Originally Posted by biodole
During prohibition of alcohol, crime skyrocketed and the birth of organized crime occurred. Once prohibition was lifted, violent crime dropped exponentially, and alcohol related crime sank to unprecedented levels.
Let's all be adults here and realize something. If a person wants to do something to THEIR OWN body...why should that be illegal? If a person commits a crime under the influence of drugs (just as if they did sober), the penalty should be firm and harsh.
Well, it's nice to know that since prohibition was lifted society doesn't have any more problems associated with the abuse of alcohol!
Sir, you are perpetuating a myth. Organized crime was around long before prohibition was enacted and when it ended other criminal activities (prostitution, extortion, gambling, robbery, burglary, sales of stolen property, vehicle theft, etc...) continued funding it's growth. Ignoring the social consequences of "victimless crimes" (your description not mine) while arguing for their legalization is akin to claiming that all humans need to do in order to fly is to strap on a pair of wings.
The vast majority of violent crime is committed by and against persons who are under the influence of either alcohol or some sort of drug. Homelessness, teen pregnancy, single parenthood, domestic violence and dependance on government assistance, injury traffic collisions, and suicide are all directly associated with drug and alcohol abuse in the vast majority of instances. While there may be "treatment" for addiction, there is no cure and without the direct intervention of the courts (threat of imprisonment), many if not most addicts have little incentive to attempt recovery.
Those suggesting that all society has to do to prevent associated crimes like those described above is legalization of all substances, conveniently fail to address: Who is going to pay to care for those with such addictions, when the addicts themselves are unable as well as unwilling to care for their own needs?
The suggestion (as you've made yourself) that crimes associated with addiction can be "dealt with harshly" is also complete bunk. Not only does addiction itself present a commonly used excuse for criminal activity, the question of "specific intent" is routinely disputed when those under the influence commit violent crimes such as murder. "Was the store keeper executed to keep from identifying the defendant or was the defendant so "intoxicated" that he accidentally shot the victim during the course of the crime?"
"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's
______________________________________
Marine Survives Two Tours in Iraq, SWAT Kills Him
Tim Cavanaugh | May 16, 2011
"Please send me an ambulance and you can ask more questions later, please!"
Guerena tells the dispatcher that her husband had returned home about 6:30 a.m. after work and was sleeping.
Prompted by the dispatcher, Guerena says her husband was shot in the stomach and hands.
The dispatcher asks Guerena to put her cheek next to her husband's nose and mouth to see if he's breathing, but she replies in Spanish that her husband is face- down.
The operator tells Guerena to grab a cloth and apply pressure to his wounds, but the wife responds frantically: "I can't! I can't! There's a bunch of people outside of my house. I don't know what the heck is happening!"
A dispatcher asks if the people outside are the SWAT members. "I think it's the SWAT, but they ... Oh my God!" Guerena says.
A dispatcher asks that she open the door for the SWAT, but Guerena replies that the door was already opened by police.
"Is anybody coming? Is anybody coming?" she asks.
The operator tells Guerena help is on the way, but they're still trying to figure out what happened.
"I don't know, that's it, whatever I told you, that's it," Guerena says.
Just after the five-minute mark, Guerena's end of the line goes silent.
The two dispatchers spend about four minutes talking to each other and calling out for Guerena while trying to figure out if the call is coming from the same residence where the warrant was served. At the end of the 10-minute 911 call, a dispatcher says she has confirmation that Guerena is outside with deputies on the scene.
This is from Arizona Daily Star reporter Fernanda Echavarri's effort to piece together the death of Jose Guerena, 26, at the hands of a Pima County, Arizona SWAT team. Guerena, who joined the Marines in 2002 and served two tours in Iraq, was killed just after 9 a.m. May 5. Guerera had just gone to bed after working a 12-hour shift at a local mine when his home was invaded as part of a multi-house crackdown by sheriff's deputies.
Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden, Guerena died with his wife close by. Widow Vanessa Guerena, who hid with her four-year-old son when sheriff's deputies raided the home, fills in detail that has been slow to come from Pima County Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik’s office:
"When I came out the officers dragged me through the kitchen and took me outside, and that's when I saw him laying there gasping for air," Vanessa Guerena said. "I kept begging the officers to call an ambulance that maybe he could make it and that my baby was still inside."
The little boy soon after walked out of the closet on his own. SWAT members took him outside to be with his mother.
"I never imagined I would lose him like that, he was badly injured but I never thought he could be killed by police after he served his country," Vanessa Guerena said.
The family's 5-year-old son was at school that morning and deputies say they thought Guerena's wife and his other child would also be gone when they entered the home.
Guerena says there were no drugs in their house.
Deputies said they seized a "large sum of money from another house" that morning. But they refused to say from which of the homes searched that morning they found narcotics, drug ledgers or drug paraphernalia. Court documents showing what was being sought and was found have not been made public. A computer check on Guerena revealed a couple of traffic tickets and no criminal history.
Tucson KGUN’s Joel Waldman says the SWAT team prevented paramedics from going to work on Guerena for one hour and fourteen minutes.
The sheriff’s department maintains that Guerena was holding an AR-15 when the paramilitary force fired 71 bullets in his home, but other key parts of the government story have collapsed. While PCSD initially claimed Guerena fired the weapon he was alleged to have been holding, the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic inside a home containing a woman and a toddler:
A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot, [PCSD spokesman Michael] O'Connor said.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 09:06 AM #2
just joe
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Obviously journalistic sensationalism and there not enough information provided to make an informed opinion.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 11:51 AM #3
PhilipCal
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We've heard only one side here. That of the media. They revel in this type of story. Believe them if you so choose. I'm waiting for the rest of the story. I personally do my best to not be influenced by the likes of David Gregory, Brian Williams, Andrea Mitchell, and the rest of the talking heads.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 12:09 PM #4
Murf425
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Originally Posted by 1082
...the department now says it was a misfire by one of the deputies that caused this deadly group panic...
Not weighing in on the story since, as has been pointed out, we don't know it. Just saying that, anytime I hear about raids such as this, that's always my biggest fear. If I were the suspect, and I had a squad of officers all drawn down on me, even with my hands up and unarmed I'd be ****ting myself thinking, "Please, God...don't let one of them sneeze." 'Cause if that first shot is fired...
Lt. Col. Grace - "Lt. Murphey, why are you all dressed up to mack on the ladies?"
Me - "Sir, you just answered your own question."
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 01:23 PM #5
jannino
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Originally Posted by Murf425
Not weighing in on the story since, as has been pointed out, we don't know it. Just saying that, anytime I hear about raids such as this, that's always my biggest fear. If I were the suspect, and I had a squad of officers all drawn down on me, even with my hands up and unarmed I'd be ****ting myself thinking, "Please, God...don't let one of them sneeze." 'Cause if that first shot is fired...
Or it's the dead of night, you hear your door kicked down... you grab a gun to see what's going on and it's a SWAT team that mistakenly raided your house.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 01:26 PM #6
needguidance
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"Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden, Guerena died with his wife close by."
That's a little much isn't it?
"..you'll never be great without taking a chance.."
Diamond Eyes
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 01:32 PM #7
Carbonfiberfoot
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The drug war: The policing of non-violent, consensual crimes with very violent, volatile tactics.
A map of botched drug raids in America: www.cato.org...
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 01:32 PM #8
just joe
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No, no, no....That's journalistic integrity at its finest.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 01:35 PM #9
willowdared
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excerpt:
A dispatcher asks that she open the door for the SWAT, but Guerena replies that the door was already opened by police.
"Is anybody coming? Is anybody coming?" she asks.
The operator tells Guerena help is on the way, but they're still trying to figure out what happened.
"I don't know, that's it, whatever I told you, that's it," Guerena says.
Just after the five-minute mark, Guerena's end of the line goes silent.
The two dispatchers spend about four minutes talking to each other and calling out for Guerena while trying to figure out if the call is coming from the same residence where the warrant was served. At the end of the 10-minute 911 call, a dispatcher says she has confirmation that Guerena is outside with deputies on the scene.
Other audio records Drexel Heights released to the Star Friday indicate the agency dispatched a medical unit at 9:43 a.m. but was told by the Sheriff's Department to hold off.
Dispatchers said there were several addresses where the SWAT team was going that morning and they were not sure if this house was one of them, the audio shows.
The Sheriff's Department dispatcher said she had not received any requests for medical help from deputies on scene. Drexel Heights fire dispatcher asked: "You don't want us going in, right?" The sheriff's operator then said: "I don't know what is going on. You guys go ahead and hold off until we know what it's going to be."
The Sheriff's Department operator said people at the scene wanted the medical help to stay back because they might be dealing with a "barricaded subject."
Molly Weasley makes Chuck Norris eat his vegetables.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 01:54 PM #10
Dingo990
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Read two paragraphs and decided that article was an extremely biased editorial, not actual news. Find a real news story with facts and then I'll consider discussing the article.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 02:04 PM #11
BigW
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Typical media hype. It's always the bad guy is innocent until proven guilty. However, law enforcement is always guilty and when proven innocent we're still hated for it.......
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 02:04 PM #12
Murf425
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Originally Posted by jannino
Or it's the dead of night, you hear your door kicked down... you grab a gun to see what's going on and it's a SWAT team that mistakenly raided your house.
I don't remember any posts you may have made in that thread well enough to know if you're being serious or not...
Lt. Col. Grace - "Lt. Murphey, why are you all dressed up to mack on the ladies?"
Me - "Sir, you just answered your own question."
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 02:07 PM #13
yellowreef
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Originally Posted by jannino
Or it's the dead of night, you hear your door kicked down... you grab a gun to see what's going on and it's a SWAT team that mistakenly raided your house.
No one said anything about mistaken address. Unfortunately, having served and having a full time job, wife and kids doesn't necessarily mean someone can't be up to no good. Working narc in a military town I see it all the time. The article wants you to think they got the wrong house by painting a picture of a standup guy, but like I said thats not always true just given those facts.
Last edited by yellowreef; 05-19-2011 at 02:09 PM.
"You don't want the truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall... I have neither the time, nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it."
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 02:37 PM #14
Unistat
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Geez O'Pete, We don't get that outrageous kind of liberal bias out of the newspapers even here in Detroit!
As to the the War on Drugs, it's only a victimless crime till you start counting bodies. I doubt the cartels would just give up their murderous business practices if we only made drugs legal.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 02:52 PM #15
Carbonfiberfoot
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Originally Posted by Unistat
...As to the the War on Drugs, it's only a victimless crime till you start counting bodies. I doubt the cartels would just give up their murderous business practices if we only made drugs legal.
A few people still die in the alcohol trade, but not nearly as many as did during prohibition. *The effects of alcohol still kill PLENTY.
If the street value on their product drops 90% overnight, the primary target of the cartels would probably be the politicians who successfully proposed the legislation.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 03:23 PM #16
jannino
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Originally Posted by Murf425
I don't remember any posts you may have made in that thread well enough to know if you're being serious or not...
Yes, I'm serious. I'm not referencing this article because it's too vague to know anything. I was just referring to a situation I hope to NEVER find myself in. I don't lose any sleep over it.. it's just something that came to mind when you mentioned being at gunpoint by several officers. It would scare the crap out of me too!
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 03:27 PM #17
biodole
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Originally Posted by Unistat
Geez O'Pete, We don't get that outrageous kind of liberal bias out of the newspapers even here in Detroit!
As to the the War on Drugs, it's only a victimless crime till you start counting bodies. I doubt the cartels would just give up their murderous business practices if we only made drugs legal.
Speaking as an officer, I really have to say that you made an incorrect statement.
The war on drugs is what causes cartels, drug-runners, and all the drug crime imaginable. During prohibition of alcohol, crime skyrocketed and the birth of organized crime occurred. Once prohibition was lifted, violent crime dropped exponentially, and alcohol related crime sank to unprecedented levels.
Let's all be adults here and realize something. If a person wants to do something to THEIR OWN body...why should that be illegal? If a person commits a crime under the influence of drugs (just as if they did sober), the penalty should be firm and harsh.
When there is a substance made illegal (contraband), you now have the ability to procure and sell it illegally to justify profits. If drugs were legal, major pharmaceutical companies like phizer or merck would "safely" manufacture it for pennies on the dollar and there would be no more profit for drug cartels and local dealers alike. When was the last time you saw someone selling beer on the corner? Or when was the last time you heard of a whiskey smuggling operation? How about the last time that 17 people were killed in a gunfight over tequila? The crime goes away. Sure, there might be more junkies...but who cares? Let them kill themselves. Would certainly free up a lot of breathing room for the rest of us.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 03:30 PM #18
jcioccke
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Not enough information for me to make any judgment. Regardless there is a 5 year old without a father today. It may be the father's fault or not. Only time will tell.
Needguidance, I agree that was way too much of a reference.
Quote Originally Posted by vincelli
Let me put it politely. Your statement is grossly incorrect. In fact, it is so incorrect that we probably need to provide scientists with a grant to develop a "Scale of Incorrectness", at the top of which would be your statement.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 03:32 PM #19
jannino
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Originally Posted by yellowreef
No one said anything about mistaken address. Unfortunately, having served and having a full time job, wife and kids doesn't necessarily mean someone can't be up to no good. Working narc in a military town I see it all the time. The article wants you to think they got the wrong house by painting a picture of a standup guy, but like I said thats not always true just given those facts.
I was responding to Murf's comment of being at gunpoint by several officers and someone having an accidental discharge. I was just adding to that another situation that would be absolutely scary and awful to be in.
I don't know anything about the article. Only thing that stands out to me is that the agency isn't releasing why they were at the house? Is that normal?
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 03:47 PM #20
beachcop05
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Originally Posted by jannino
I don't know anything about the article. Only thing that stands out to me is that the agency isn't releasing why they were at the house? Is that normal?
Yes it is. If there is an investigation still pending.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 04:28 PM #21
mdrdep
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Well there's another few minutes of my time down the drain.
Today's Quote:
"Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves."
Ronald Reagan
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 04:55 PM #22
Vorkon
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Originally Posted by biodole
Speaking as an officer, I really have to say that you made an incorrect statement.
The war on drugs is what causes cartels, drug-runners, and all the drug crime imaginable. During prohibition of alcohol, crime skyrocketed and the birth of organized crime occurred. Once prohibition was lifted, violent crime dropped exponentially, and alcohol related crime sank to unprecedented levels.
Let's all be adults here and realize something. If a person wants to do something to THEIR OWN body...why should that be illegal? If a person commits a crime under the influence of drugs (just as if they did sober), the penalty should be firm and harsh.
When there is a substance made illegal (contraband), you now have the ability to procure and sell it illegally to justify profits. If drugs were legal, major pharmaceutical companies like phizer or merck would "safely" manufacture it for pennies on the dollar and there would be no more profit for drug cartels and local dealers alike. When was the last time you saw someone selling beer on the corner? Or when was the last time you heard of a whiskey smuggling operation? How about the last time that 17 people were killed in a gunfight over tequila? The crime goes away. Sure, there might be more junkies...but who cares? Let them kill themselves. Would certainly free up a lot of breathing room for the rest of us.
I yell this same thing often, Even though I do not do drugs, never have did a drug, Or like anyone around that does them. I do not feel there should be a law or government intrusion in someones life as to what they do in their homes "On this topic".
Once they step into society or general public and commit a crime then there are laws that will take into action. IMO
Originally Posted by EKV123
~sigh~ You guys are really some strange individuals..
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 05:46 PM #23
BAinCJ
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For the police version of this incident, read the following and watch the video
www.kgun9.com...
Living it one day at a time.
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 07:01 PM #24
medica430
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"Like enemy of the state Osama bin Laden, Guerena died with his wife close by."
Yeppers. This is the exact point where my short attention span kicked in and I started daydreaming about my lunch date with Jennifer Aniston.
Last edited by medica430; 05-19-2011 at 07:03 PM. Reason: Added Quote.
"People don't fail, they give up". - Dale Carnegie
Reply With Quote 05-19-2011 07:06 PM #25
pulicords
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Originally Posted by biodole
During prohibition of alcohol, crime skyrocketed and the birth of organized crime occurred. Once prohibition was lifted, violent crime dropped exponentially, and alcohol related crime sank to unprecedented levels.
Let's all be adults here and realize something. If a person wants to do something to THEIR OWN body...why should that be illegal? If a person commits a crime under the influence of drugs (just as if they did sober), the penalty should be firm and harsh.
Well, it's nice to know that since prohibition was lifted society doesn't have any more problems associated with the abuse of alcohol!
Sir, you are perpetuating a myth. Organized crime was around long before prohibition was enacted and when it ended other criminal activities (prostitution, extortion, gambling, robbery, burglary, sales of stolen property, vehicle theft, etc...) continued funding it's growth. Ignoring the social consequences of "victimless crimes" (your description not mine) while arguing for their legalization is akin to claiming that all humans need to do in order to fly is to strap on a pair of wings.
The vast majority of violent crime is committed by and against persons who are under the influence of either alcohol or some sort of drug. Homelessness, teen pregnancy, single parenthood, domestic violence and dependance on government assistance, injury traffic collisions, and suicide are all directly associated with drug and alcohol abuse in the vast majority of instances. While there may be "treatment" for addiction, there is no cure and without the direct intervention of the courts (threat of imprisonment), many if not most addicts have little incentive to attempt recovery.
Those suggesting that all society has to do to prevent associated crimes like those described above is legalization of all substances, conveniently fail to address: Who is going to pay to care for those with such addictions, when the addicts themselves are unable as well as unwilling to care for their own needs?
The suggestion (as you've made yourself) that crimes associated with addiction can be "dealt with harshly" is also complete bunk. Not only does addiction itself present a commonly used excuse for criminal activity, the question of "specific intent" is routinely disputed when those under the influence commit violent crimes such as murder. "Was the store keeper executed to keep from identifying the defendant or was the defendant so "intoxicated" that he accidentally shot the victim during the course of the crime?"
"I'm not fluent in the language of violence, but I know enough to get around in places where it's
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