A question for those who hate taxes

reply to post by adeclerk


I hate taxes as much as the next guy, but some level of taxation is necessary in order for the government to function. I think the real question here is, what kind of government do you want to have, and more importantly, what kind of government will lead to the long term success of this country?

I think the answer is obvious. All you need to do is look at the difference in the trajectory of this country in its first 150 years or so of existence...in an era of relatively limited government and low and even non-existent income taxes and where individual and entrepreneurial freedom reigned ...and compare it to the trajectory of ever-increasing government scope, high taxes and intrusiveness since the New Deal, but especially since Johnson's Great Society era in the 60s.

We were once a society that focused on solving practical and technical problems, and we were damn good at it. Now, we spend our time and money on social problems, literally dumping more than a trillion dollars a year into social welfare programs, with, at best, mixed results. For a while, we lived in the richest, most powerful country in the world, and its precisely because we focused on problems we could solve, not ones we couldn't. Its funny that some people wanted to change that so bad. I guess they got their wish.

Originally posted by adeclerk
I've noticed that people who are supposedly the most patriotic Americans have a tendency to hate taxes. So I have two questions for those of you:

1. Do you realize that paying taxes is the most patriotic thing you can do? Why would you not want to contribute to America's success/ allow America to continue? (This is NOT a debate about America's success)
   
2. Do you realize that not paying taxes makes you no better than the illegal immigrants who don't pay taxes?
   

Thoughts?

Thought# 1 I certainly don't agree "paying taxes is "the most patriotic thing "you can do.
If that were true we'd still be paying the crown duties on tea imports ,just because someking felt it was his divine right!.

Thought # 2 I see the government as a somewhat necessary evil that should only be tolerated in small doses. The smaller the gov the better.

As per "no better than illegal immigrants" I present Carlos Mencia ( the hispanic currently channeling George Carlin's biting, brutally honest social commentary ) this whole hour+ (7each 10 minute segments is worth watching! I just discovered these clips yesterday.).
(Part5 of 7 only.):
not really"work safe" for language bu the insight is worth it.

Originally posted by gorgi
Paying taxes is a good thing. If we do not, we end up like Somalia, which has almost no central government. I suppose thats what the patriotic anti tax payers want.

Man, you sure do pitch Somalia ALOT.

I've noticed that people who are supposedly the most patriotic Americans have a tendency to hate taxes. So I have two questions for those of you:

Taxpayer (victim of state theft) here. My specific tax farm designation is irrelevant, I think.

Do you realize that paying taxes is the most patriotic thing you can do?

So it would seem, by your logic, that the founding fathers of your nation were by order of magnitude far less patriotic than you, as the rate of taxation in their day way far, far less.

Why would you not want to contribute to America's success/ allow America to continue? (This is NOT a debate about America's success)

You simply cannot reference 'Americas success' as the ultimate virtue and then, in the next breath, discount any inquiry into how we might define that success. That would be like selling us on the virtues of a used car and allowing no questions or debate as to if said car has wrecked before, or if it can even run. What an insane framework you lay down for us to mindlessly accept.

Oh and by and by, America attained its massive base of wealth *based* on relatively low taxation. In fact it was *built* without the so called income tax.

So if anything, 'Americas success' was manifested by the opposite of that which you are asserting. Not to mention that whole anti tax revolution thing, which was the tipping point that triggered your revolution and paved the way for Americas stunning and unprecedented rise in power and success.

But all history and circumstance aside, I oppose taxation on the grounds that taxation requires the initiation of force (taxation = theft) and is thus evil and immoral, regardless of your perceived consequences.

reply to post by zroth

Paying taxes is the process of helping the IRS manage the debt on the loans the US has taken from the FED.

The FED is not a federal nor an American run function.

Therefore paying taxes cannot be a patriotic act.

You forgot the Fed is "OWNED" by the banks and the check they handed Congress was a BIG RUBBER CHECK.... Can you say we are paying interest on the COUNTERFEIT MONEY magically conjured into existence by the central bankers? On top of the "money" the Fed loans to the US government directly, the banks within the FED use Fed created COUNTERFEIT MONEY to buy US bonds.

each citizen's share of the national debt is $46,217.93.

Here is a pie chart showing who "owns" the federal debt. www.brillig.com...

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by gorgi
Paying taxes is a good thing. If we do not, we end up like Somalia, which has almost no central government. I suppose thats what the patriotic anti tax payers want.

Man, you sure do pitch Somalia ALOT.

It could be any third world crime ridden country. Somalia is just a great example Kenya or Sudan would do just fine. With no or little taxes there is no government so her you go.

Ask the monster in my avatar about personal income taxes and why he allowed them and the Federal Reserve to come into being. Then say we're not patriotic for not wanting to support tyranny.

/TOA

look if your stupid enough to pay taxes then that's on you....

Between tax credits, offshore accounts etc., etc. the gov (your Boss) pays my taxes out of his pocket and gives me the rest. To the tune of about 10k a year

So yeah I love'em!

The best thing they ever did was make the tax code so complicated their own employees cant figure it out.
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For the noobs:

The tax system is a voluntary system which most people don't know. Don't opt in and you will never have to pay or in my case play. Meaning don't get a social security number and you will never have to pay or play. However that makes it pretty darn hard to do most anything else like drive. etc., etc.

So blame your parents as they are the one's that prob got the number for you in the first place...

AS far as 'your taxes' pay for gov programs, your kidding right? What gov program is the defense dept? They got 400 billion dollars in 2011. Any questions?
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National debt is not mine. I never owned anything i didn't pay for with cash... So it's not my debt...
House, paid cash, built in 2009..
cars 3, paid cash, truck, suv, and a drop top..
no credit cards: That's just stupid, loan sharks give better rates....
6 bank accounts: never put all your eggs in 1 basket.

Look if your financing anything it's not yours so dont call it 'your house', 'your car' etc. Do you have the titles? NO! So it's not yours!

Credit card holders and home & car financiers:
Your the prob with America, you have been sucking on the tit for so long you think it's your God given right to borrow. What happen to save for a rainy day?

Don't complain if your a big part of the problem!!!!

Originally posted by pygmaeus
Wouldn't it be awesome if by paying taxes we got services? Oh wait we do.

Wouldn't it be awesome if by paying taxes we got more services? Oh wait republicans.

Wouldn't it be awesome if the taxes we pay went to those services? Oh, wait, Obama's wars.

/TOA