Egyptian Grand Canyon? And It's Summertime, too....

I think if you have lurked on this forum long enough, you've seen the threads on the Egyptian outpost somewhere in the Grand Canyon and that the area is shut down and inaccessible to civilians.

If the majority of people are interested, why not put together an expedition? Take a set of motorcycles as close as you can to the disputed area, and hike in. surely there are enough survivalists and explorer types to actually make a two-week expedition to this area and make at least a documentable exploratory search. Hey, man, we even have a rough idea of where it is, that set of Egyptian motif structures in the Canyon.

In the forum there are posts that show links to the canyon and the "Egyptian Ruins" and the trails by which these are accessible. There really aren't any Egyptian things in the Canyon; names were given by the mapmakers of the late 1800's, when all things Egyptian were the rage. You won't be able to "sneak" into the canyon and there's really no point in it when all these places are open and accessible.

Hitthetrail.com is a site for tours and tour guides and resources including canoe trips:
www.hitthetrail.com...

A review of the old tales plus pictures of some of the caves and the Anasazi ruins is here:
www.philipcoppens.com...

The park is very crowded, so I think advanced reservations are a good idea. Looking at the maps, these are not hikes for amateurs and having had experience hiking and working in West Texas, the travelers need to be with good guides who will make sure they're equipped for the trip.

Survivalists actually wouldn't do that well in this area. You need to be physically fit, used to lots of walking and packing gear... and/or have a good guide.

Originally posted by Byrd
In the forum there are posts that show links to the canyon and the "Egyptian Ruins" and the trails by which these are accessible. There really aren't any Egyptian things in the Canyon; names were given by the mapmakers of the late 1800's, when all things Egyptian were the rage. You won't be able to "sneak" into the canyon and there's really no point in it when all these places are open and accessible.

Thanks for the reply, Byrd. I wouldn't suggest sneaking in, as sneaking can imply breaking the law, which would immediately render any provenence untrustworthy and the data suspect. Generally above-board researchers don't break laws.

More by Byrd

Hitthetrail.com is a site for tours and tour guides and resources including canoe trips:
www.hitthetrail.com...

A review of the old tales plus pictures of some of the caves and the Anasazi ruins is here:
www.philipcoppens.com...

Given that a cursory look of Native artifacts seems to have an Egyptian connection (look back to all these threads claiming connections despite gaps in time) its very likely Kincaid and Kenneman mistook one for the other.
Seeing as the canyon is located in a First World nation (debatable with modern debt, but still... :-) ) and resources can be put on standby, other than the financial aspects of this project, I fail to see why it would be so hard to actually mount this and see if there is an Anasazi/Egyptian/Atlantean/Gray outpost. It would be like a certain birth certificate - either its accepted or not, but for whatever a person thinks it's worth, the results would be there.

More by Byrd
The park is very crowded, so I think advanced reservations are a good idea. Looking at the maps, these are not hikes for amateurs and having had experience hiking and working in West Texas, the travelers need to be with good guides who will make sure they're equipped for the trip.

I hike in Big Spring a lot - my folks are from there, especially over the summer when I can go visit my grandmother. I hear you and BFFTexan live out that way - maybe a coffee some time? The major scholastic institutes are in Lubbock and Midland/Odessa and Abilene... So I suspect you are not too far away from there.

Last by Byrd]
Survivalists actually wouldn't do that well in this area. You need to be physically fit, used to lots of walking and packing gear... and/or have a good guide.

edit on 20-5-2011 by Byrd because: (no reason given)

I'm not talking about the stereotypical survivalist, but people who are actually skilled in surviving in the desert. I know that is traditionally Navajo land, so a smart Texican would get a guide who's also familiar with the local flora and fauna in order to eat and stay relatively healthy... and to think that everyone would probably be a little slimmer than before.

Originally posted by MagoSA
Given that a cursory look of Native artifacts seems to have an Egyptian connection (look back to all these threads claiming connections despite gaps in time) its very likely Kincaid and Kenneman mistook one for the other.

Actually, they don't. Check out the threads on Egyptology that are pinned at the top of the forum and start reading up on the art and the religion and writing of the Egyptians. I don't know how familiar you are with Hopi/Apache/Pueblo thought and religion, but they're really very different. And the Anasazi... they weren't around until 900 years after Egypt fell (rule of the Ptolemys. Last person who could read hieroglyphs until the modern time died around 300 AD. Anasazi date to 500 AD.)

And, of course, there's no proof that Kincaid ever existed OR visited the place:
www.philipcoppens.com...

I fail to see why it would be so hard to actually mount this and see if there is an Anasazi/Egyptian/Atlantean/Gray outpost.

It isn't. It's been done many times before. And the ruins are well documented.

I hike in Big Spring a lot - my folks are from there, especially over the summer when I can go visit my grandmother. I hear you and BFFTexan live out that way - maybe a coffee some time?

Oh, I would love it, but we moved from Big Spring in 1979. I used to work at the state park on top of the Caprock there! In any case, I see that you are indeed someone who could march out into the desert and not do ridiculous things and get yourself hurt!

I know that is traditionally Navajo land, so a smart Texican would get a guide who's also familiar with the local flora and fauna in order to eat and stay relatively healthy... and to think that everyone would probably be a little slimmer than before.

Ah jest waves mah lil' credit card and folks brings me what I wants. Although I do know some of what's available to eat, frankly, you need to bring supplies. The desert habitat is very fragile and it takes a long time to prepare things like yucca root (IF you can find it.) Much easier to simply go on one of the canyon expeditions.

Crystallinks has some lovely pictures of the formations. You can see they're not manmade. You can also see they've gotten very excited and photoshopped some real artifacts into the cave walls. In the tale taken from the Hopi, the name "Machetto" isn't Hopi and the "hieroglyphics" down at the bottom of the page are fake (the hawk and the designator for 'deity' are facing different directions, for one thing):
www.crystalinks.com...

Even on my latest adventure (to the Devil's River to look for dinosaur footprints), I stayed in a motel. Less exciting, but I do have mild scoliosis and it's worth it to be able to wake up and actually walk more than 10 feet the next morning. I have eyed renting a camper, however.

But, y'know, it would be kind of cool to get permission (easy enough to do with the right connections) and go explore those places. It would be MORE fun to take a full camera crew and do a report on it, although I think it would be more pleasant to fly around the Temple of Ra than to actually try to climb the freakin' slopes up there. You'd need mountain climbing gear, I think. Helicopter... much cheaper, much more convenient, no days and days of hauling your silly self up those cliffs.

Kind of a fun idea to debunk it once and for all.

I wonder if Mythbusters would fund me. I'd go in a heartbeat!

www.xpeditionsmagazine.com...
This is the entire story from 1909 at the link above

It might be worth finding out where exactly any explorers have gone missing; from my memory I believe I heard there are quite a few reports of those going in and not returning. This was the reason why the area is closed to hiking (not the public access areas). It might help triangulate where others were seeking the truth.

Has anyone noticed any anomalous features by way of Google Maps? Pixelations perhaps?

Are there still trails leading from the Anasazi Ruins to any part of the Canyons? This might be the direction to go searching. .

Read the link I enclosed above. It tells where to look on restricted land, and where the original Egyptian discoveries were made up a high cliff face mostly unreachable, through the wall, down some stairs to a tunnel temple complex inside.

Originally posted by Byrd
(snip)
Actually, they don't. Check out the threads on Egyptology that are pinned at the top of the forum and start reading up on the art and the religion and writing of the Egyptians. I don't know how familiar you are with Hopi/Apache/Pueblo thought and religion, but they're really very different. And the Anasazi... they weren't around until 900 years after Egypt fell (rule of the Ptolemys. Last person who could read hieroglyphs until the modern time died around 300 AD. Anasazi date to 500 AD.)

And, of course, there's no proof that Kincaid ever existed OR visited the place:
www.philipcoppens.com...

I think I misstated my idea - I meant that people mistake a possible connection between the NA and Egyptian cultures... thus why I reference the plethora of threads claiming a connection where there is none... I apologize for that misunderstanding.

(after some snippage)
It isn't. It's been done many times before. And the ruins are well documented.

I keep looking online for documentation concerning anyone debunking this, and missing. Could you spare a link, please?

Oh, I would love it, but we moved from Big Spring in 1979. I used to work at the state park on top of the Caprock there! In any case, I see that you are indeed someone who could march out into the desert and not do ridiculous things and get yourself hurt!

LOL its a small town, I'm not surprised to hear that... My folks fled in the late sixties and I go there for downtime as my grandmother lives on the North Side and it makes for a great reason to unplug from life for a day or so.

Ah jest waves mah lil' credit card and folks brings me what I wants. Although I do know some of what's available to eat, frankly, you need to bring supplies. The desert habitat is very fragile and it takes a long time to prepare things like yucca root (IF you can find it.) Much easier to simply go on one of the canyon expeditions.

this is true... darn you for injecting reality into this! LOL

Crystallinks has some lovely pictures of the formations. You can see they're not manmade. You can also see they've gotten very excited and photoshopped some real artifacts into the cave walls. In the tale taken from the Hopi, the name "Machetto" isn't Hopi and the "hieroglyphics" down at the bottom of the page are fake (the hawk and the designator for 'deity' are facing different directions, for one thing):
www.crystalinks.com...

Even on my latest adventure (to the Devil's River to look for dinosaur footprints), I stayed in a motel. Less exciting, but I do have mild scoliosis and it's worth it to be able to wake up and actually walk more than 10 feet the next morning. I have eyed renting a camper, however.

But, y'know, it would be kind of cool to get permission (easy enough to do with the right connections) and go explore those places. It would be MORE fun to take a full camera crew and do a report on it, although I think it would be more pleasant to fly around the Temple of Ra than to actually try to climb the freakin' slopes up there. You'd need mountain climbing gear, I think. Helicopter... much cheaper, much more convenient, no days and days of hauling your silly self up those cliffs.

Kind of a fun idea to debunk it once and for all.

I wonder if Mythbusters would fund me. I'd go in a heartbeat!

I think you and I are on the same wavelength on this last part - while I am young enough to be able to rough, I am old enough to appreciate a creature comfort or two... I think it would be fun and worth it to go out there and either prove its there (unlikely as it is) and I would love to be able to climb - in the old days in the mid 90s friends and I would sneak into Garden of the Gods in the early morning and free-climb (illegal, we'd get our gear confiscated and a ticket for our shenanigans) and while I am out of practice, i would definitely train back up to do it again.