Osama Bin Laden and the South African Nukes

I thought the Missing Nukes come from Russia? Oh and I remember a thread where a bunch of middle class guys got a nuke for less than even a million

I wouldn't be surprised if there were more missing or unaccounted for nukes. During the cold war, there must have been tens of thousands of the damn things in existence.

If you have watched the film "the sum of all fears" you will probably have said to yourself "S***, all it takes is for a couple of rouge extremists with access to such items and to be well placed within the govt and that could very well happen!"

There is far more to all these recent conflicts than just the typical "oil" and "liberation" facade. No way tho that any of it will reach the public domain. However, thanx to the OP, we have a collection of documents which all point in the same direction.

There is a plethora of info out there, it's just scattered to the four winds.

Excellent , informative post ... Thanks
Didn't realise this went as far back as Thatcher - shouldnt be suprised that bi*ch had something to do with it.
Also didn't realise Dr David Kellys history in this ... Fills in a lot of blanks !

S&F

There was a suspicion that some of the South African nukes were the very same devices detonated in North Korea.

The range is similar to the 16 kt quoted for the South Africa weapons with the North Korean 2009 test 1-20 kt

Analysts have generally agreed that the nuclear test was successful, despite uncertainty of the exact yield.[23]

The U.S. intelligence community assessed that North Korea "probably" had conducted a nuclear test with a yield of "a few kilotons."[24] The Preparatory Commission for the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organization assessed the yield at only slightly larger than the 2006 test, which was one kiloton.[24]

Russia placed the yield of the test significantly higher at 10 to 20 kilotons.[24] This was approximately the yield of the Fat Man and Trinity bombs developed by the United States during World War II.[25] After the 2006 test the Russians estimated a far higher yield of 5 to 10 kilotons when other sources estimated a yield of 0.5 to 0.9 kilotons.[16][26] Defense Minister Lee Sang-Hee of South Korea said that more data were needed but that the yield might be between 1 to 20 kilotons.[16]

Based on readings from 23 seismic stations, the Preparatory Commission for a Comprehensive Test Ban estimated the blast wave as 4.52. This corresponds to an explosive force of 2.4 kilotons and compares to a wave of 4.1, or 0.8 kilotons, for the 2006 blast.[27]

Analyst Martin Kalinowski at the University of Hamburg estimated the yield at being from 3 to 8 kilotons, still a very successful test when compared with the 2006 test.[16][28] Hans M. Kristensen of the Federation of American Scientists cautioned that "early news media reports about a 'Hiroshima-size' nuclear explosion seem to be overblown."[16] The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists asserted that the blast was more powerful than the 2006 test, but put the yield between 2 to 6 kilotons, far short of a Hiroshima-type device. The group concluded that the bomb failed to detonate correctly, but that still in that case the potential of this weapon should not be dismissed.[

What worries me most is this - why would the most senior Al Qaeda leader apart from Bin Laden make a claim about Al Qaeda possessing a nuclear weapon, unless they had one.

Sure he could lie - but by doing so he would undermine every other threat Al Qaeda issued to terrorise the West.

By undermining their own credibility, they undermine their ability to cause terror.

Claiming to have a nuke is the ultimate lie - so why would an organisation that requires 'terror credibility' issue a claim that undermines so totally their own credibility as a terrorist organisation ?

Any short term gain ( frightening the US interrogators ) would be undermined by the resultant long term credibility damage to the organisation.

This information on the nuclear weapons only came via the Wikileaks site - yet at the same time as this information was given to the US, the US government began to impose searches on ships, containers and trains etc capable of carrying nuclear weapons into the US - SO THE US GOVERNMENT TOOK THE THREAT SERIOUSLY !

Why would the US government take such a threat seriously ?

Unless they knew that there were missing nukes that Al Qaeda may have gained access too.

Originally posted by Unknown Perpetrator
There was a suspicion that some of the South African nukes were the very same devices detonated in North Korea.

The range is similar to the 16 kt quoted for the South Africa weapons with the North Korean 2009 test 1-20 kt

Analysts have generally agreed that the nuclear test was successful, despite uncertainty of the exact yield.[23]

The U.S. intelligence community assessed that North Korea "probably" had conducted a nuclear test with a yield of "a few kilotons."[24] The Preparatory Commission for the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty Organization assessed the yield at only slightly larger than the 2006 test, which was one kiloton.[24]

Russia placed the yield of the test significantly higher at 10 to 20 kilotons.[24] This was approximately the yield of the Fat Man and Trinity bombs developed by the United States during World War II.[25] After the 2006 test the Russians estimated a far higher yield of 5 to 10 kilotons when other sources estimated a yield of 0.5 to 0.9 kilotons.[16][26] Defense Minister Lee Sang-Hee of South Korea said that more data were needed but that the yield might be between 1 to 20 kilotons.[16]

Based on readings from 23 seismic stations, the Preparatory Commission for a Comprehensive Test Ban estimated the blast wave as 4.52. This corresponds to an explosive force of 2.4 kilotons and compares to a wave of 4.1, or 0.8 kilotons, for the 2006 blast.[27]

Analyst Martin Kalinowski at the University of Hamburg estimated the yield at being from 3 to 8 kilotons, still a very successful test when compared with the 2006 test.[16][28] Hans M. Kristensen of the Federation of American Scientists cautioned that "early news media reports about a 'Hiroshima-size' nuclear explosion seem to be overblown."[16] The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists asserted that the blast was more powerful than the 2006 test, but put the yield between 2 to 6 kilotons, far short of a Hiroshima-type device. The group concluded that the bomb failed to detonate correctly, but that still in that case the potential of this weapon should not be dismissed.[

The Vela Incident reports state that the estimated size of the South African bomb used in the Vela test was between 2 to 4 kilotons.

This is the same level as the North Korea test of an estimated 2-4 kilotons.

It appears that the North Korea bomb could have been one of the South African bombs in relation to its explosive signature.


en.wikipedia.org...


The "double flash" was detected on September 22, 1979, at 00:53 GMT, by the American Vela Hotel satellite 6911, which carried various sensors that had been designed specifically to detect nuclear explosions. In addition to being able to detect gamma rays, x-rays, and neutrons, the satellite also contained two silicon solid-state bhangmeter sensors that would be able to detect the dual light flashes associated with a nuclear explosion—to be specific the initial brief, intense flash, followed by the second longer flash.[2]

The satellite reported the characteristic double flash of an atmospheric nuclear explosion of two to three kilotons, in the Indian Ocean between The Crozet Islands (a very small, sparsely inhabited French possession) and the Prince Edward Islands which belong to South Africa at 47°S 40°E / 47°S 40°E / -47; 40Coordinates: 47°S 40°E / 47°S 40°E / -47; 40.

www.timesonline.co.uk...

The single biggest threat to US security is the possibility of terrorists obtaining nuclear weapons, President Obama declared on the eve of a global summit in Washington to prevent a nuclear terror attack.

“If there was ever a detonation in New York City, or London, or Johannesburg, the ramifications economically, politically, and from a security perspective would be devastating,” he said as he met President Zuma of South Africa.

Mr Obama will call on the leaders of 47 nations today — the biggest gathering of heads of state by a US leader since the founding of the UN in 1945 — to introduce tougher safeguards to prevent nuclear material ending up in the hands of terrorists. As far back as 1998, Osama bin Laden stated that it was his Islamic duty to acquire and use weapons of mass destruction.

During the two-day summit, Mr Obama will try to convince representatives, including David Miliband, who is standing in for Gordon Brown, that the dangers of loosely guarded atomic material are so grave that a global agreement is needed.

Mr Obama has put nuclear weapons at the top of his foreign policy agenda. He signed a treaty with Russia on April 8, restricted the role and development of US nuclear weapons last week, and is trying to reach agreement on new sanctions against Iran.

The unprecedented gathering of 47 nations in Washington to address this issue underscores the perceived severity of the threat posed by nuclear terrorism. “We know that terrorist groups, including al-Qaeda, are pursuing the materials to build a nuclear weapon and we know that they have the intent to use one \ a catastrophic danger to American national security and to global security were they able to carry out that kind of attack,” Ben Rhodes, the White House's deputy national security adviser for strategic communications, said last week.

reply to post by leejohnbarnes


Bottom line... we only have the interrogator's and government's word that KSM actually said any of this in the first place! Under torture, anyone would admit to anything, which makes it all very shaky indeed.

I'd also wager that the story of the nukes going to Iraq, and then Syria, are nothing more than a fabrication used, like the "dodgy dossier" to make the case for the pointless war and invasion. I mean. we have clearly been lied to about almost every damned aspect of recent conflicts and the WoT, so what's a few more lies to cover up some illegal arms trading / shuffling?
Funny though, I told a family member some of this history pertaining to David Cameron and the SA trip before the elections that got him into power, and was laughed at.

This is a most excellent thread!!!

This ties together some of the biggest secrets in recent history:
1. Dr David Kelly
2. The arms deal
3. The Helderberg
4. Korea nukes
5. The nuclear threat

Your research is top notch, i'm honestly starting to believe that the entire "new" south africa spiel was in order to relieve us of our nukes, which were incidentally isreali designed. I've heard tell that the real secret is where the plutonium came from ... any bets it's the USA?

That this issue is becoming more open every day scares me greatly. The events are playing out as they should, with the stolen SA nukes out there somewhere, and al qaeda threatening to nuke something, bin laden's death nonsense being disseminated, and with all us skeptics in the room, about time for another display of shakinah, or shock and awe as we've come to know it.

I am NOT a fan of prophecies, especially the date and time variety, but 21 may is turning into a very likely "something" call it a leak of some sort ... how do i know? I don't ... i'm feeling the bow wave of an event, that would involve all of these events. Earthquake and nuclear detonation, probably different places ... a catalyst.

Will keep this thread watched, peace

www.thestar.com...

In a break between huddles with early arrivals Sunday, Obama outlined the stakes for the two-day summit, warning: “Organizations like Al Qaeda are in the process of trying to secure a nuclear weapon – a weapon of mass destruction that they have no compunction at using.

“This is something that could change the security landscape of this country and around the world for years to come,” said Obama. “If there was ever a detonation in New York City, or London, or Johannesburg, the ramifications economically, politically and from a security perspective would be devastating.”

Originally posted by Britguy
reply to post by leejohnbarnes

 

Bottom line... we only have the interrogator's and government's word that KSM actually said any of this in the first place! Under torture, anyone would admit to anything, which makes it all very shaky indeed.

I'd also wager that the story of the nukes going to Iraq, and then Syria, are nothing more than a fabrication used, like the "dodgy dossier" to make the case for the pointless war and invasion. I mean. we have clearly been lied to about almost every damned aspect of recent conflicts and the WoT, so what's a few more lies to cover up some illegal arms trading / shuffling?
Funny though, I told a family member some of this history pertaining to David Cameron and the SA trip before the elections that got him into power, and was laughed at.

The Al Qaeda leader who under torture admitted to having a nuclear bomb is not the issue - the issue is that the US took what he said seriously.

The US did believe what he said was true - hence Obama mentioned it at the meeting in South Africa.

The ONLY reason you would take an outlandish threat like that seriously - is if you knew that nukes have been lost and that terrorists may have got hold of them.

The issue of the South Arican nukes WAS NOT INCLUDED IN ANY OF THE DODGY DOSSIERS nor was it used as the basis of the WMD in Iraq claim.

This whole thing has simered below the radar for decades.

I wonder how many people laughed before 911 if anyone had said to them that terrorists would one day fly into the WTC buildings and kill 3000 plus people.

I guess most people would have laughed.

That couldnt happn in America.

No one is laughing now.

Originally posted by harryhaller
This is a most excellent thread!!!

This ties together some of the biggest secrets in recent history:
1. Dr David Kelly
2. The arms deal
3. The Helderberg
4. Korea nukes
5. The nuclear threat

Your research is top notch, i'm honestly starting to believe that the entire "new" south africa spiel was in order to relieve us of our nukes, which were incidentally isreali designed. I've heard tell that the real secret is where the plutonium came from ... any bets it's the USA?

That this issue is becoming more open every day scares me greatly. The events are playing out as they should, with the stolen SA nukes out there somewhere, and al qaeda threatening to nuke something, bin laden's death nonsense being disseminated, and with all us skeptics in the room, about time for another display of shakinah, or shock and awe as we've come to know it.

I am NOT a fan of prophecies, especially the date and time variety, but 21 may is turning into a very likely "something" call it a leak of some sort ... how do i know? I don't ... i'm feeling the bow wave of an event, that would involve all of these events. Earthquake and nuclear detonation, probably different places ... a catalyst.

Will keep this thread watched, peace

Thanks mate.

It scares me too.

I just hope I am talking nonsense and that these stories are all wrong.

Things just got more scary.

More than one Al Qaeda leader has confirmed they have a nuclear weapon ;


nuclear-news.net...


Abu al-Libi, al Qaeda’s third in command and “operational chief” before he was captured in 2005, reportedly said the nuclear device was “located in Europe” and would be used in retaliation over bin Laden’s death, according to the leaked files.

WikiLeaks docs: Nuclear reprisals if bin Laden killed, Privacy Inc, by Declan McCullagh, 3 May 11,

Recently-released WikiLeaks documents show that detained al Qaeda members have predicted nuclear reprisals if Osama bin Laden were captured or killed.

The classified Defense Department files, obtained from detainee interviews at the Guantanamo Bay prison, were released by the document-sharing Web site a week before the raid in Pakistan that resulted in bin Laden’s demise.
Abu al-Libi, al Qaeda’s third in command and “operational chief” before he was captured in 2005, reportedly said the nuclear device was “located in Europe” and would be used in retaliation over bin Laden’s death, according to the leaked files. The phrase “nuclear hellstorm” appears in the Defense Department’s dossier on Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, who allegedly confessed to masterminding the September 11 attacks and will be tried by a military tribunal.

Another detainee, Sharif al-Masri, reportedly said that if al Qaeda was able to move the bomb to the United States, they would be able to find operatives of Europeans of Arab or Asian descent to use it. He said, the records show, if bin Laden “were to be captured or killed, the bomb would be detonated in the US” and that al-Libi “would be one of those able to give the order.”

The claims–which could, of course, be false–add more detail to suspicions in Washington about possible reprisals following Sunday’s special forces raid in Pakistan. Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.), chairman of the House Homeland Security committee, told Fox Business yesterday that “we have to assume that al Qaeda is going to try to retaliate as quickly, as lethally as possible.”

…… Other secret Guantanamo documents published by WikiLeaks starting on April 24 show:

• Mohommad Zahir (PDF), reportedly a major weapons dealer associated with the Taliban, was arrested “on suspicion of possessing weapons including Stinger missiles and uranium,” which were “intended for use in a nuclear device.”

• Muhammad Binyam (PDF), a member of al Qaeda, reportedly suggested “constructing a nuclear dirty bomb for an attack against the U.S.,” and said he was willing “to become a martyr.”

• Abd Al Rahim Abdul Raza Janko (PDF), who acknowledged receiving training at al Qaeda’s al Faruq Training Camp, reportedly described plans “including nuclear attacks and suicide attacks around the world,” although interrogators viewed his reliability as suspect and questioned whether he would have had access to that information…news.cnet.com...

Wikileaks files here ;


wikileaks.ch...


Page 9 - references details on the fact Al Qaeda have nuclear bomb




In the last ten minutes this document has been moved from the wikileaks site - why would that happen ?

When I first clicked on it, you could read the full report on the page by a small reader - now the whole report has been removed !

reply to post by leejohnbarnes


Again though... all we have is lies within lies, wrapped up in more lies!

The people are getting uppity and need to be scared back into compliance, so wave the bogeyman again and add in an even more terrifying angle. If a nuke were to be detonated somewhere, I for one would not be looking at some turban wearing cave dweller as the perp!

Originally posted by Britguy
reply to post by leejohnbarnes

 

Again though... all we have is lies within lies, wrapped up in more lies!

The people are getting uppity and need to be scared back into compliance, so wave the bogeyman again and add in an even more terrifying angle. If a nuke were to be detonated somewhere, I for one would not be looking at some turban wearing cave dweller as the perp!

Go to the wikileaks link in the post above and go to page 9.

Also read the page after page of top level inside Al Qaeda information provided by the guy.

They appear to have a bomb, and this guy was one of the people with the authority in Al Qaeda to order its ignition.

THEY REALLY BELIEVE THEY HAVE A BOMB AND HAVE IN PLACE AN AL QAEDA COMMAND STRUCTURE IN ORDER TO AUTHORISE ITS IGNITION.

They are not lying.

They really believe they have a bomb.

They believe it so much, they have established a command structure to be in charge of it.

This information is confirmed from multiple sources inside Al Qaeda.

I was worried before, now I am truly scared.

"American Hiroshima" is a term nearly forgotten and they definitely want you to forget. Google it and you'll know with some certainty that this is about to happen. Al Qaeda are patient, simply waiting for the best time to strike. With the debt ceiling hit, the US in total financial turmoil. The time is near for their suitcase nuke attack. It will push the US over the edge into oblivion. It is why Baba Vanga stated Obama will be the last US president.

reply to post by leejohnbarnes

I just hope I am talking nonsense and that these stories are all wrong.

You should be so lucky ....

I'm waiting for another ATS'er to weigh in, i think he knows

Just a reminder if i may: Osama and Obama and alciada are all red herrings. This is all part of the master plan, to destroy society as we know it, you have just opened up a ... hidden aspect of it. But a lot is starting to make sense now.

reply to post by leejohnbarnes


Aaaah! Well if it's on wikileaks then it must be true and we are all doomed then.

Seriously, Al CIA-duh and Wikileaks are controlled disinfo operations. I tend to ignore them completely and take more notice of past events and who is behind them.

Was it Al Qaida that was behind supplying South Africa the means and materials to make the nukes?
Was it Al Qaida that was behind the smuggling of those weapons out of South Africa?
Was it Al Qaida that despatched our current Prime Minister to oversee the smuggling and cover up of those weapons?
Was it Al Qaida that killed Dr. David Kelly, probably to cover up all the dirty goings on and close a potential wildcard leak, that could have put some seriously high up players in jail, or at least prevented them ever coming into power?

See, Al Qaida is nothing more than the scapegoat, the created bogeyman outfit waved at us to scare us all into falling into line and doing as we are told to finance the wars. The real people behind all this are the very ones we now see in power and, as such, I see them as a greater threat to my safety than some turbaned man making scary speeches and videos from a cave in crappystan!

The link to the wiki leaks site ten minutes had a full copy of the dossier on it concerning

Abu Farajal Libi


Now that dossier has been removed from the wiki leaks site.

In the dossier it had about twnety pages of the interrogation report on Abu Farajal Libi which explained how he was one of the Al Qaeda leaders with the authority to issue the order to detonate the nuclear bomb that Al Qaeda have, that the bomb was stored in Europe and that if Osama Bin Laden was killed then they would ship the bomb to the US and explode it in the US.

Now the Wikleaks file on Abu Farajal Libi has been removed within the last ten minutes from the Wikileaks site and also the records of Wikileaks even having a dossier on Libi have been removed from the wikileaks lists of documents.

The links from this article here ;

nuclear-news.net...

Which I followed to the wikileaks site by clicking on the blue highlighted text which is able to be accessed by clicking the blue words 'leaked files' at the end of this sentence ;

Abu al-Libi, al Qaeda’s third in command and “operational chief” before he was captured in 2005, reportedly said the nuclear device was “located in Europe” and would be used in retaliation over bin Laden’s death, according to the leaked files.
"
Has been removed within the last ten minutes from the wikileaks site.

And all documents relating to Libi have also been removed from the wikileaks site - even though the main site still states they had dossiers on Libi on wikileaks here ;

wikileaks.ch...

All those documents have now been removed.

WOW - it appears that someone is trying to hide the information on this thread.




Now the Wikileaks file on