Do MOST people idealize Revenge?

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
reply to post by donatellanator

 

Well Karma isn't doing a very good job:

A man serving a life sentence for attempted rape has won £7m on the National Lottery.

news.bbc.co.uk...

I believe in Karma as a state of mind but not as a sort of benevolent, omnipotent entity.

ALS

Karma is not in isolation, there is family karma, it will be the family of the rapist who will benefit from this win.

I have never personally seeked revenge, it is a waste of energy which can be put to better use imo.

Lstening to LBC (UK) talk radio was surprised at the amount of callers supporting an 'eye for an eye'

Confucius said :

"Before you embark on a journey of revenge, dig two graves. "

Most people don't have the guts to exact revenge. They typically shrug and say oh well and move along. Revenge takes thought, patience and a plan, you know?

Originally posted by dizzylizzy

Originally posted by ALOSTSOUL
reply to post by donatellanator

 

Well Karma isn't doing a very good job:

A man serving a life sentence for attempted rape has won £7m on the National Lottery.

news.bbc.co.uk...

I believe in Karma as a state of mind but not as a sort of benevolent, omnipotent entity.

ALS

Karma is not in isolation, there is family karma, it will be the family of the rapist who will benefit from this win.

I have never personally seeked revenge, it is a waste of energy which can be put to better use imo.

Lstening to LBC (UK) talk radio was surprised at the amount of callers supporting an 'eye for an eye'

Even most of the lovely people of Canada would probably secretly be happy if their government brought the death penalty back.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by donatellanator

 

"Karma" isnt as simple as most westerners want to make it out to be. There is more than one version of it. Some people believe it is automatic, and some mystic force handles it, and you dont have to do anything.

And for some, it is just "cause and effect." And revenge fits very well into that second version. You do something, and the karma, or effect of that action, is your victim or their family comes after you.

I dont idealize revenge, I personally just think that we should weed sociopaths out of the gene pool at every opportunity to make the species a little less nasty and a little more cute n snuggly. We kind of suck, overall, and I think the agrarian lifestyle is allowing nasties to build up in the population in a way they would not in a more hunter gatherer lifestyle. I think we need to correct for it.

To me, It's just energy. Radiating negative by seeking and fulfilling revenge will ultimately come back to you as the same negative (with environmental, time, and situational changes to keep you on your toes). I was more speaking on behalf of my own beliefs using the typically used word Karma. I have seen how this law works in my own life so I am inclined to believe in its existence.

I think we breed more hate by "punishing" people. If you hurt/get/negatively affect someone with revenge, what is the likelihood they'll learn a positive lesson and grow from it? It just seems like a lose lose situation to me even with sociopaths involved.

The hunter gathers were loosely affiliated bands of people. I would argue the population is too great and the people too intertwined for this to happen in our modern circumstances. Now, if there was a major reduction in population, I would happily welcome this change because I agree that agrarian society has become a detriment. It is nice to see someone else thinks this way (at least in part). Have you read Collapse?

reply to post by descartes90


Sadly yes.

See my post on the man who as a punishment for dripping acid in some poor woman's eyes, is being punished the same way with most ATSers cheering it on.

Again, revenge, for you people that follow the Bible I leave you these quotes my good little Christians (I'm not even Christian and yet see the wisdom of these sayings).


Leviticus 19:18 "'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deuteronomy 32:35 It is mine to avenge; I will repay. In due time their foot will slip; their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Samuel 26:10 As surely as the LORD lives," he said, "the LORD himself will strike him; either his time will come and he will die, or he will go into battle and perish.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Samuel 26:11 But the LORD forbid that I should lay a hand on the LORD's anointed. Now get the spear and water jug that are near his head, and let's go."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psalm 94:1 O LORD, the God who avenges, O God who avenges, shine forth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proverbs 20:22 Do not say, "I'll pay you back for this wrong!" Wait for the LORD, and he will deliver you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proverbs 24:29 Do not say, "I'll do to him as he has done to me; I'll pay that man back for what he did."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremiah 51:36 Therefore, this is what the LORD says: "See, I will defend your cause and avenge you; I will dry up her sea and make her springs dry.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Romans 12:17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ephesians 4:27 and do not give the devil a foothold.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Thessalonians 4:6 and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you.

****************** Once you "revenge" once you do unto another a terrible wrong, you than have sunk to the level by your very same actions that which you say you deplore.

There is such a thing as karma and it's a twitch baby, let the universe even the score and trust me it will.

As above so below.

Humanity if we as a species do not get out of this violent, hate mode will surely never make it to a class 1 civilization.

We, as in the past, (like Atlantis) will more than likely destroy most of ourselves and start out again with rock axes and spears.

The hate, even for those that are deplorable must stop.

And no I do not say to let "beings" (I don't even know if they are truly real humans) be allowed to roam free and harm more people................but look at our world leaders.

Everyone cries about one poor woman who had her eyes burned out with acid and cheers on the person that will like wise avenge this woman by yet pouring more acid upon the vicious man that originally did this horrible thing.

What about the person who signed off on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, two bombs that vaporized and burned 700,000 people?

What about Hitler that killed 10-12 million people?

What about the Napalm that we saw pictures of naked, running children on fire?

God, when in the hell is man going to put aside his vicious, violent childish ways and grow the muck up?

Revenge.......................let karma decide.

What goes around, comes around and it is not for us but for the universal laws to determine justice.

Humanity, at this point, our justice stinks.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by descartes90

 

Sadly yes.

See my post on the man who as a punishment for dripping acid in some poor woman's eyes, is being punished the same way with most ATSers cheering it on.

Again, revenge, for you people that follow the Bible I leave you these quotes my good little Christians (I'm not even Christian and yet see the wisdom of these sayings).


Leviticus 19:18 "'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deuteronomy 32:35 It is mine to avenge; I will repay. In due time their foot will slip; their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Samuel 26:10 As surely as the LORD lives," he said, "the LORD himself will strike him; either his time will come and he will die, or he will go into battle and perish.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Samuel 26:11 But the LORD forbid that I should lay a hand on the LORD's anointed. Now get the spear and water jug that are near his head, and let's go."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Psalm 94:1 O LORD, the God who avenges, O God who avenges, shine forth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proverbs 20:22 Do not say, "I'll pay you back for this wrong!" Wait for the LORD, and he will deliver you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proverbs 24:29 Do not say, "I'll do to him as he has done to me; I'll pay that man back for what he did."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeremiah 51:36 Therefore, this is what the LORD says: "See, I will defend your cause and avenge you; I will dry up her sea and make her springs dry.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Romans 12:17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ephesians 4:27 and do not give the devil a foothold.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 Thessalonians 4:6 and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you.

****************** Once you "revenge" once you do unto another a terrible wrong, you than have sunk to the level by your very same actions that which you say you deplore.

There is such a thing as karma and it's a twitch baby, let the universe even the score and trust me it will.

As above so below.

Humanity if we as a species do not get out of this violent, hate mode will surely never make it to a class 1 civilization.

We, as in the past, (like Atlantis) will more than likely destroy most of ourselves and start out again with rock axes and spears.

The hate, even for those that are deplorable must stop.

And no I do not say to let "beings" (I don't even know if they are truly real humans) be allowed to roam free and harm more people................but look at our world leaders.

Everyone cries about one poor woman who had her eyes burned out with acid and cheers on the person that will like wise avenge this woman by yet pouring more acid upon the vicious man that originally did this horrible thing.

What about the person who signed off on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, two bombs that vaporized and burned 700,000 people?

What about Hitler that killed 10-12 million people?

What about the Napalm that we saw pictures of naked, running children on fire?

God, when in the hell is man going to put aside his vicious, violent childish ways and grow the muck up?

Revenge.......................let karma decide.

What goes around, comes around and it is not for us but for the universal laws to determine justice.

Humanity, at this point, our justice stinks.

edit on 15-5-2011 by ofhumandescent because: grammar

Even though I have some anarchist views, I do think the common man would have much crueler punishments than our current government does. Which makes me wonder - are the ills of the world the Powers' fault, or our own?

It does seem like lots of people here are big on an eye for an eye or even more severe punishment than that but if you put them on an actual jury (in the US) most people want to truly uphold the letter of the law with a presumption of innocence and they take their jury duty services very seriously when actually called upon to do so. I thank god we are still a country of laws and not a theocracy with individual clerics calling the shots or mob rule.

Originally posted by ChrisCrikey
It does seem like lots of people here are big on an eye for an eye or even more severe punishment than that but if you put them on an actual jury (in the US) most people want to truly uphold the letter of the law with a presumption of innocence and they take their jury duty services very seriously when actually called upon to do so. I thank god we are still a country of laws and not a theocracy with individual clerics calling the shots or mob rule.

True - though those cases when the death penalty is UNAMINOUSLY voted for - that's kinda creepy.

reply to post by descartes90

This is something that has been getting to me for YEARS. I'm not just basing this on a few things, it seems like whenever I hear about a major crime happening in the news, the common reaction is "let's do the same thing to them they did to their victim".

A lot of people are pissed off about a bunch of things, and in the end you get what you give and it's a cycle that perpetrates itself. But some people deserve to get what they give, but not if the cycle keeps perpetrating. So they are justified but what they put out in there justification will eventually come back to them. Karmas a bitch and it knows no borders in this life or the next or any life or existence you believe you will go on to, or even if you don't believe in it, it really does not matter because you can say that it believes in you and it has a wicked sense of humor like all forces of nature or forces outside nature.

Most people deep down admire Hammurabi more than they admire Ghandi. And this is why the Jews and Arabs will never stop murdering each other's children, this is why the American people will never compromise and form a decent government that actually gets stuff done.

Thats really a simple way of looking at it and really says nothing on why anybody or those you mentioned above do anything. I think admire is really the wrong word, more like connect, if somebody choses to follow Hammurabi's law or try to follow what Gandhi or Jesus or Buddha says it's not really because they admire them so much. More like they connect to it or them somehow, or want to connect to it or them for personal reasons that would most likely go back to the beginning of there birth.

And the reasons are many why the Jews and Arabs are at od's, but basically it's because of there deep down similarities when it comes to certain things, and also the reasons are many why the american people will never compromise and form a decent government, but basically the whole giving power over you to anybody or entity is not smart, yes! the whole idea of government is flawed because of that.

And second finding any form of paradigm were everybody can get along and less at od's with each other is not something that is achieved over night. So far it's been since the beginning of history and counting were people have been searching for something like that.

Vengeful people do not care about the human race or planet Earth, they only care about their own families, they are basically gene-selfish and anti-idealist. They are stuck in the mindset that the only way to honor themselves and their loved ones is to hurt back anyone who ever does them wrong.

Human emotion and empathy is a closed circuit that has limits in its grasp because humans have limits or lines in the sand that they draw, in there grasp of how far they can reach or tolerate. And you would be lucky to find those that reach to the family much less beyond the family to any others.

And for most people themselves and there loved ones is all they have really and there whole world, so if somebody and something harms them or there loved ones. That equates to an attack on the whole world, because it is the whole world for them. See what I'm getting at here your not dealing with complicated things and creature, your dealing with simple things and creatures in complicated environment's and scenarios.

We are never going to have a safe world until we give up this idea that Revenge is a good thing and that it is equivalent to Justice. In fact, I truly believe that the key to world peace is the rejection of revenge by the human race. So what do you say? Why don't we abolish revenge today?

That would be easy exempt for one important fact. That fact being that revenge and justice are kind of like two sides of the same coin. Nobody would even think of justice if it were not for something personal or some goal or ideal, that they think is wrong or that they have been wronged in and want to change it. So on a basic bare bones level revenge and justice, exist side by side or are faces of the same primal thing that propel each-other. That thing is the duality of nature I think.

Though the kind of revenge I think you are talking about is the eye for an eye thing. That one is easy to fix but hard to do because its not easy to follow, basically don't start nothing there will be nothing, the law of cause and effect. But that only works for everybody if everybody follows it, and again we come back to the broader reality.

I think revenge does not solve or do anything really but it exists and I really cant fault people in some cases for what they do such as when a murderer kills and rapes somebodies daughter or son. I really cant say nothing for or against wanting revenge. Really in such cases I think its both justified and unjustified in a lot of levels and it's up to the person to personally decide and not be pushed into one or the other. Free will I guess, whatever that means! but I would take it that is why we have courts and other people to judge for us what we freely chose not to judge or look at to closely. Even going so far as inventing gods to judge for us, see! this thing goes far, and I could go on. But.....