Plymouth police fight bid to expose sites of 69 secret cameras

Plymouth police fight bid to expose sites of 69 secret cameras

www.thisisplymouth.co

Senior officers at Devon and Cornwall Police have warned that any exposure of its covert network of automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) cameras would put the public "at risk" and damage investigations into organised crime.

If the ruling led to other forces being ordered to reveal the location of their cameras police fear criminals could create a national map to avoid detection.

A senior Devon and Cornwall officer told The Herald: "ANPR has been a fantastic weapon in our fight against crime. It has been a huge success, particularly in taking millions of pounds worth of drugs off

(visit the link for the full news article)

And what about the publics right to relative privacy as they go about their daily business?

Just how 'covert' has this country become if they are 69 secret cameras in just one area?

A map of these cameras would end up on peoples GPS systems just like all the speed cameras have done, But i'm sure it would not take too long for the police to move these cameras around.

I cannot see how organised crime is reduced by the means of these cameras.. If you are that organised, you're not going to go out in an un-insured vehicle.. That's just begging for attention!!

And what the senior officer meant to say was that the police have been very successful in taking millions of pounds off of the general public in daylight robbery campaigns.

Giving away that level of detail is frankly ridiculous. It will put the public at risk."

It does nothing of the sort.. the public will be no more at risk from anything. There is, as far as I can tell, no evidence to support this claim.. What it will do is reduce the police forces ability to secretly spy on everyone, everywhere..

The locations of the cameras were requested under the Freedom of Information Act by Steven Mathieson, news editor at Guardian Government Computing, in July 2009.

The force refused claiming the ANPR map would "be likely to prejudice the prevention of crime".

It also blocked the move after an internal review, a decision which was supported by the Information Commissioner.

Mr Mathieson then appealed to the Information Rights Tribunal which last month found in his favour, ordering that the information be disclosed within 35 days.

So there is hope yet of these secret cams locations being made public... The sooner the better IMO.

[url=http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/news/Police-fight-bid-expose-sites-secret-cameras/article-3543401-detail/article.html]www.thisisplymouth.co.uk[/u rl]
(visit the link for the full news article)

They should just stick them everywhere, then they cannot be avoided if that is their worry.

Yhea I became aware of a few of these ANPR cameras in my travels, they are not totally hidden but you do have to know what to look for, the fixed ones are at choke points such as the Tamar bridge (major route from Devon to Cornwall) I know the location of quite a few, I have no need to avoid them but I do know of a few people that avoid them as a matter of routine... They may come under the umbrella of 'the usual suspects' lol, usually a less than perfect youth, they do get somewhat harassed by the police as they are driving about, using those cameras the police can get a very good idea of your movements by the 'pings' - a camera pings you and it's relayed automatically to a car in the area and a police man who has expressed an interest in a certain person.

This is straight out of "1984" I swear. They do things like this with cameras to invade our privacy all the time, meanwhile, try filming a cop in public, see what happens.

Originally posted by Now_Then
using those cameras the police can get a very good idea of your movements by the 'pings' - a camera pings you and it's relayed automatically to a car in the area and a police man who has expressed an interest in a certain person.

Which is effectively covert surveillance...

Big brother IS watching everything you do.. or anywhere you intend to go.

Think I'll fit some high powered IR lights to front and rear of my car

Um... really?

...exposure of its covert network of automatic number plate recognition (ANPR) cameras would put the public "at risk" and damage investigations into organised crime. ...

REALLY?

These devices "protect" the public? The fixed location cameras "investigate" organized crime?

It seems that the establishment now just takes for granted that they don't really have to explain themselves anymore.

The blue cameras on the blue poles all over the UK are now part of the ANPR network,I think I read that they have/will have facial recognition as well.

They cover the UK,on all roads and all entry/exit of towns/cities.

They have been running ANPR for at least a year by now.

Many are not aware of this.
Some info/further reading on the subject:

Trafficmaster claim that the system stores only part of a vehicle's registration number.
They state that only the middle four characters are stored.
Since most registration numbers in the UK have seven characters, there is no such thing as the middle four! The system must therefore be able to read the whole registration number in order to extract the 'middle four' characters. Trafficmaster further claim that only a sample of vehicles is used.
It it obvious that if a given vehicle is chosen at random by one sensor, then the next sensor must read all the registration plates passing it in order to catch the vehicle. Since vehicles travel in all directions, all sensors must read all vehicles for the system to work.
It may be that only a sample of registration numbers are stored for average speed calculations, but the system clearly must have the ability to capture all vehicles.

www.abd.org.uk...

Originally posted by zookey

They should just stick them everywhere, then they cannot be avoided if that is their worry.

I can think of a place I'd like to see them stick these damn cameras! They don't "prevent" organised crime, do the police actually believe an "organised" criminal is going to be tearing around in a car with no insurance? No, ANPR is used for one reason and one reason only, to track you. As a sideline it manages to nab the odd chap with no insurance/tax/MoT.

A question to my American brothers, is there a similar system in the US or is it just the land of the blind here in the UK that have to deal with them?

Interestingly, I was surprised no-one on ATS has mentioned this yet:

www.guardian.co.uk...

Quote from news source, Guardian.co.uk

Britain's largest police force is using software that can map nearly every move suspects and their associates make in the digital world, prompting an outcry from civil liberties groups.

(Visit the link for full news article)

And look what I just found on the same site..

A page with several 'live' "traffic" cameras..
They say the images refresh every two minutes, but you can bet someone is watching them real time..
I feel quite confident that these cameras are a part of the ones in this topic..
www.thisisplymouth.co.uk...

there is a similar system being slowly added in the u.s. when they put them in my city, they said "the main reason we are putting these in is to protect the public by enforcing traffic laws, not profit", when all they do is ticket people for rolling through red lights. its funny that now all the cops are getting chargers and mustangs with the lights either low or concealed so you can't recognize them at a distance.

i think i read somewhere that in the u.s. someone can't be charged for traffic violations without it being physically witnessed by a police officer in person, but i'm not sure. anyways, the cops don't follow that.

Originally posted by Extralien
And look what I just found on the same site..

A page with several 'live' "traffic" cameras..
They say the images refresh every two minutes, but you can bet someone is watching them real time..
I feel quite confident that these cameras are a part of the ones in this topic..
www.thisisplymouth.co.uk...

You got it Friend,and whats the betting you can sign up to watch these cameras and get paid for reporting illegal acts/tax dodgers etc.

This is just awful IMO-its what Hitler/Stalin/Mao/Pol Pott wanted,but they lacked the technology.
Even China today can't beat us with the amount of cameras..

Don't get me wrong,but this is textbook authoritarianism right here...
If they are not yet watching and databasing your every move,then they at least want you to believe they are doing so.

Originally posted by Silcone Synapse
Don't get me wrong,but this is textbook authoritarianism right here...
If they are not yet watching and databasing your every move,then they at least want you to believe they are doing so.

Oh "THEY" are. It doesn't take a huge technical mind to link all this stuff up and form a very interesting picture of a person's movements. We can't be having people moving around freely can we? No that just won't do. What if one of them commits a crime, hey wait, what if we could track them then use some predictive software to tell us when they are thinking of committing a crime? "Minority Report" anyone?

Originally posted by Extralien
Think I'll fit some high powered IR lights to front and rear of my car

Well that all depends on whether you want to stand out like a Christmas tree or not! Your really would stand out from the crowd to the police cameras, and it's not always a robot watching the screen, human eyes too.

reply to post by Now_Then


Well, why not??
IR systems are becoming more popular for the majority of vehicles these days

Good excuse to get it fitted

Infrared camera for Automotive An infrared camera can be incorporated in cars, busses, trucks, trains, … for driver vision enhancement. An infrared camera sees up to 5 times further than headlights. Thanks to infrared cameras the driver can see pedestrians and obstacles on the road from a further distance. This way an infrared camera can help to avoid deadly accidents.

www.flir.com...