Woman mauled to death by pit bulls in New Mexico

reply to post by rubbertramp


I definitely think the owners are responsible and should be charged.

The breed of the dog has nothing to do with it. It's how they are raised that makes the difference. People who can't keep their dogs contained and controlled shouldn't own them.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


i agree and i disagree.
the breed does make a difference, along with whether or not they are spayed or neutered, like i mentioned a few replies back.
i'd say that at least 20% of pit owners chose the breed for aggressive characteristics and/or the status symbol that goes along with them.


don't see many articles about people being mauled by a pack of chihuahuas, even though chihuahuas probably bite more people than pits.

pits are like the monster trucks of dogs.
denying they are some sort of status symbol to many humans is stupid.
that wasn't directed at you personally, just stating a fact as i see it.

reply to post by rubbertramp


One problem is that many people misidentify dog breeds in these situations. Any dog attacks someone and if they can't ID the breed, they call it a Pit Bull. Many times they are actually other breeds.

Can you Find the Pit Bull?

Which one is a Pit Bull?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


without cheating, my answer,
in the first link it is number 1.
in the second it is number 8.
am i close?

i do agree about your point though.

Originally posted by rubbertramp

2 or more uncut males can actually live together if raised that way, but are usually the ones who get together and tear apart the little male nextdoor if they get loose.

My neighbors male is uncut. And I agree, spaying and neutering is a very good way to lower the aggression levels. But its not failsafe. My neighbors dog will not just kill males. Last summer on a walk he attacked a female in heat, who had gotten out of her yard and came up to him. Not the best sign, when a male turns down free sex in favor of trying to kill the offerer of it. One of his offspring has already been put down, as well, for killing other animals. This dog just likes to kill other animals. And depsite what some may claim, his owner is not doing anything to make him vicious. He is a pet. He is just a pet with a high level of aggression and willingness (and most importantly, the ability) to kill any and every other dog besides the one he was raised with. And I say "dogs" not because he would limit himself to dogs. But cats and squirrels can climb trees and he cant, and so far, all they have done is break the back of one neighbors pet cat, in her own yard, when they caught it as it was beginning to climb. (I say they because the female is less aggressive to other dogs but LOVES to go after cats.)

As pit bull owners go, the guy is a decent guy. He really does try to contain them, and he has really stepped up his efforts, (by adding a strong electrical fence and shock collar to his repertoire,) mostly because he knows that if it doesnt stop, his dog will be put down, and he loves him. I feel for him, and like I said, the dogs are nice to me, and I like them too, but I would not be sorry to see them go.

A lot of the figures on how aggressive the breed is only looks at how frequently a breed will bite people. The better studies look at how frequently they are involved in severe or fatal attacks, and not count the nips equal to someone getting their throat ripped out.

But no one really quantifies the toll these dogs take on other pets and factors that into the equation. And in my experience, thats where they do their real damage. And even proponents of the breed do not deny this.

www.gopitbull.com...

Human aggression in dogs is entirely different than
aggression directed at other animals. Inter-dog aggression is a normal
trait of the breed (as it is in many terrier breeds, among others).
Historically, humans were always in the pit, handling fighting dogs
closely, while the animals were in full fight drive. A dog that was a
danger to people and prone to biting was not feasible, and therefore
carefully selected against.

www.rottweiler.net...

One more time. Dogs that are bred and conditioned for the specific purpose of pit fighting with other dogs have to be very tolerant of human handling. You see, the focus of a fighting dog is not a human being but the opponent dog (As a result of genetic and training factors). Consequently, while fighting dogs are very aggressive towards other dogs usually they are non-aggressive towards humans.

Originally posted by rubbertramp
in the first link it is number 1.

That's a Boxer puppy.

in the second it is number 8.

There are no pit bulls in the second link.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


i agree with most of what you said, and did not mean to claim that spay and neutering is a cure all, but it sure does help in general with most.
does your neighbor have any kids?
this is another thing that i've seen, kids being too close to dog fights.
dogs are like people, we/they have a snapping point where we are not really responsible for our actions.
i used to have a male wolf hybrid. in his 15 years he never started a fight, it was always another loose dog entering his property, or some idiot with a male that lets it show aggression towards him.
once a fight started i'd be the one he bit trying to break it up.
he's turn around and snap at me thinking i was another dog.
he'd instantly let go discovering it was me, but once it starts there really is no turning back.
some breed have a very quick 'snapping point'.
in the 15 years there were probably about half a dozen fights he was in, never due to him.
for instance, the last one was a guy walking around with a big male dobie, he was walking by my booth at a flea market, my wolf was just lying on his blanket not bothering anybody.
his dobie was yanking on the leash barking and growling. idiot had one of those collars with a snap buckle, like the waist strap on back packs.
collar pops and the dobie just nails my wolf right in my space.
my wolf grabs it by the neck, flips it over and holds it to the ground on it's back.
he let go and jumped in the rv when i told him to, and the owner had to chase the dobie all over the place because he just took off.
stuff like this is ugly, there were kids around and luckily the dobie didn't take it out on anyone else.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


yup, you got me.
after taking a second look at the first link i can now see that.
it reminded me of a friends pit, she's a sweetheart.
she's a 'pink eye' or 'pink nose' or something. looks almost identicle, except on second look the image does not have the same jaws.

thanx for making me look like a fool!

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


thanx for the links you added.
very interesting.
it's like my friend that raises mastiffs, when he shows them they show no aggression towards other dogs in the arena. they were raised this way, but in their yard the 'protection' instinct kicks in and it is a completely different story.

Originally posted by rubbertramp
agree with most of what you said, and did not mean to claim that spay and neutering is a cure all, but it sure does help in general with most.

I do agree, too. It does help a lot. But its just no guarantee. Unfortunately.

Originally posted by rubbertramp
does your neighbor have any kids?

Yes, but fortunately the little girl has never been around when the dog kills another animal. Although she did once see the aftermath when they had left him chained in the front yard, and some neighbors dog had wandered too close. (In that case, legally, no fault of the owner of the pit, of course.)

A lot of what you say about your hybrid makes sense for a pack dog. Or even a herding type dog. My issue with pits is that although it CAN be that the dog is entering their territory, it doesnt have to be. This dog will try to get into another animals yard and kill it if it gets out of its own yard. As I have said before, I like the dog, and Im not afraid of him for my own sake, but because of his pet killing ways, I would really like to see him gone.

He just locks onto (visually) any other animals and then wants to kill it. It doesnt matter if the dog is in heat, wants to play, is in its own yard. The pit does exactly what it was bred to do. Tries to kill other animals. And so far, he hasnt made even one attempt to bite a human, nor am I claiming he has. Its all murderous aggression towards other animals. And I dont hate the dog for it, he is just doing what people for hundreds of years have bred him to do. But I dont want him killing my pets. Or my neighbors pets. We all love our animals too, and its a shame when you cant let your animal out in the yard because it might be the day he has dug under the fence, or some friend of the neighbor has come by and forgotten to latch the gate.

There is only on solution to this: BAN DOGS!

People need to be responsible dog owners.

The woman that was killed was just out walking. She did not deserve to be killed. I own dogs and understand dog behavior.

My opinion is that the dogs should be killed immediately. The owners of the dogs should be charged with manslaughter. It was their fault that the innocent woman was killed.

If you wish to raise dogs that are capable of killing then you are responsible for their behavior.

reply to post by Rockdisjoint


I think they should just be professionally bred for several generations to lower their fighting drive. Dog fighting is illegal here, why keep the trait in the breed? You can keep all the physical "looks" of the dog, and just select against the fighting drive.

What I find funny is that the neighbor wanted pits to protect his home from burglery. And anyone with a dog treat could get in that house.

lol a guy came to help... then watched from his car

Originally posted by violence=answer
lol a guy came to help... then watched from his car

not sure what you found amusing, but ok................................................

I think the owners of the dogs should be held legally responsible. I also think the dogs should be put to death.

reply to post by rubbertramp


that instead of helping... at all... he watched a old lady die from his car... because of 4 dogs.

that fact is worse than the initial attack.

grow a pair.

HELP THE OLD LADY

reply to post by rubbertramp


Type "pack of dogs kills" into Google and see how many come up. It's really not hard to create accurate search parameters. I'm an old lady and I can do it. You probably can too.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

Type "pack of dogs kills" into Google and see how many come up. It's really not hard to create accurate search parameters. I'm a middle-aged woman and I can do it. You probably can too.

my apologies, but i'm really not sure what this is pertaining too.
was it something i said, a point i made, a question i asked?
i'll scan the thread and see if i can figure it out.

Originally posted by Wildbob77
People need to be responsible dog owners.

The woman that was killed was just out walking. She did not deserve to be killed. I own dogs and understand dog behavior.

My opinion is that the dogs should be killed immediately. The owners of the dogs should be charged with manslaughter. It was their fault that the innocent woman was killed.

If you wish to raise dogs that are capable of killing then you are responsible for their behavior.

Perhaps a solution would be to have all dog owners demanded to attend special seminars on individual breeds. also every dog registered to their owners or pay a hefty fine and prison time?

sometimes drastic measures force a person to respect the situation and responsibility.