Solutions to our world debt crisis?

Originally posted by AndrewSwann
If the money system is gone you know who wins? OPEC. They will have trading goods and have leverage over everyone and could force policies on us if we have nothing on them. Its a monopoly for oil now and it needs to end.

That presumes any need for their product. If We extract from the plenum, We can have all the energy We want. I highly recommend reading two threads I have here, linked in my sig:

[b]The End of Entropy - the foundation (read first)

The Ethical Planetarian Party Platform - the structure

We can cast off slavery to Our robots and live richly, ALL of us.

I dont understand how starting over or adopting a new global currency could help in any way.

Lets put things in perspective here.

Lets say the united states is doing great economically.
Decide to buy debt from a country.
Lets say 5 trillion from a country with roughly 80 million population.
That so called country decide its tooo hard to pay the debt and they cant take it anymore. They wanna reset.
How do you think american would react?
Knowing exactly they are heading the same way downward.. eventually.

I know this perspective doesn't reflect the reality of the situation with china because in fact the US is a great customer of chinese goods and they dont want that same economy to collapse already.

If the situation doesn't change or improve in 3-4 years we might have to adopt a new global currency and trust me that new currency is gonna worth the same as monopoly money,

I'm confident that some one is gonna pull sumtin out of their hat just basically cause ATS is almost always wrong concerning gloom.

A proposal for changing the American money / system has already been proposed.

In December 2010 Dennis Kusinich proposes:

HR6550: The National Emergency Emplyment Defense Act
A pdf copy is available for download

It calls for the abolishon of the Federal Reserve, Fractional Reserve Banking and no call for a gold standard. It goes on further to deal with repayment of current debt with newly created interest free debt amongst many other proposals.

Here in the UK back in 1980 the often government quoted Economic Research Council compiled a report entitled Goverment Debt and Money Creation, with the following conclusion -

CONCLUSION
If the Government had followed a policy of extensive fiduciary control and had itself issued credit , rather' than allowing the banks to do so, it could, for example, have made a net reduction over the period 1970-80 in the need for Government borrowing from the £48,578 million Securities issued to about £22,OOO million, a saving of about £27.000 million on the national debt over the period. The effect of implementing the proposed move now would be that a net amount of £20,OOO million of national debt could be cancelled. The consequent reduction of interest payments on the national debt and, therefore, of taxation or further borrowing required to meet these payments, would help to bring about reflation without inflation.

I don't know jack about the UK's finances, so I'll refrain.

But the US would be simple enough. Drastic military cuts. Frankly we don't need the majority of our military bases; Sell them off to the host countries. Bring the men and women warming the benches at these bases back home and put them to the task of rebuilding our infrastructure. Cease maintenance of outmoded technology, channel those funds either back into the treasury or investments in wind, thermal, and solar energy. Sell outmoded equipment as scrap or disabled collector's pieces. Halt offensive operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, and Libya; maintain advisory forces in these areas to train the nationals, for a period not to exceed two years (if they can't clobber the Taliban by then, screw it, the Taliban could probably do a better job of running the place). Remove all private contracts; our military should not be seen as a for-profit bonanza free of budget limits.

Follow this up by reclaiming arable but unused land from corporate entities; oil companies buy up federal land at huge subsidies for "exploration" then subdivide and sell it off at immense profit. End this practice, and sell the land at a discount to non-corporate holders who will use it to provide either agricultural output, or solar / wind energy output, under contract to not sell for X amount of years. Add a program for a paid volunteer civilian workforce to join work on our infrastructure; salaries and training. Create an incentive program for companies to hire from and build in the US states at US market wages. Stiffly fine those companies that are found to employ slave labor overseas.

In the halls of government, "small government" begins with head counts. We do not need administrative administrators, and Senators can learn to drive their own damn cars. Thin the ranks of Legislative, Judicial, and Executive "fluff" positions; most of our congressmen, judges, et all, are paid enough to hire their own help and still live perfectly comfortably on Chesapeake Bay.

With what's left, invest in environmental resource protection; we need water, we need air, we need safe soil, and, believe it or not, we need wilderness as well. Restructure the EPA and similar government organizations to be staffed with people who actually have meaningful educations in things like, I dunno, ecology. Provide a mandate for actual protection of our nation's natural resources, rather than the charter for over-exploiting them and lying about it that currently works.

A nation's wealth is based on its natural resources and labor production. Currently we are destroying both of these, even as we allow costs - such as pollution, poor infrastructure, and governmental bloating - to build up. If we reverse these trends, it would take about five years for a clear turnaround. Which means there's another thing we'd need to do.

Stop pretending miracles happen. They don't.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


If you've not already done so TWF download HR6550 and give it a read. On reading your post you my find yourself agreeing with it or at least part of it, as it talks on green issues also.

As in the phrase "rally round the flag" the awareness and promotion of the bill can force it to be recalled, but collectively the country is going to have to scream for it, for it will not be done freely.

Originally posted by ukWolf
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

If you've not already done so TWF download HR6550 and give it a read. On reading your post you my find yourself agreeing with it or at least part of it, as it talks on green issues also.

As in the phrase "rally round the flag" the awareness and promotion of the bill can force it to be recalled, but collectively the country is going to have to scream for it, for it will not be done freely.

Collectively this country couldn't find its ass with both hands, even if they had a Sherpa with a map helping them out. Collectively this country will look at that proposition, or the things I mentioned, and scream and beat themselves stupid(er) about "SOCIALISM!!!!!" if they even bothered to look at all.

Then they'll go back to watching TV and killing themselves by inhaling tar and eating brominated oil because emphysema and morbid obesity are the hallmarks of freedom, baby.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


No soloutions from you today then, other than not to bother.

Now back to the OPs' topic, Soloutions to Our World Debt Crisis.

the all around 'debt' is the lenders 'profits'.... profits from a rigged system which favors the 'house'
better known as the banker elites/money changers of the Jesus era which he condemned as Vipers and from Satan...


make the USD-Federal Reserve Note only useful for gaming within the bank & finance & derivative community, better known as Wall Street
...have the US Treasury & Congress approve the mint and print a new form of money that can be used for trade and commerce in the world of Main Street ---- and never will the two currencies get intermingled or correlated to one another in the practical world.


iow, let the banker-finance elites swim in warehouses & arenas full of their bogus funny money just like Scrooge McDuck...let them fight amonst themselves about raking in profits, from each others' skinning...
just leave we the public out of their filthy world of make-believe wealth transfer
(a make believe world that has encroached on the lives of real people in the natural world and has been a phantom cause of most of the worlds ills and proverty and imbalances)

Fox I agree. However to make this happen we would need everyone in the current government to leave and have a whole new one. Almost like a coup. The people and officials dont want this type of change so I Believe that we will fall. This will show them that our capitalism did not work and that we need drastic change. If this happens there is a chance but at what cost will it be acomplished? I guess we will wait and see.

Originally posted by mayabong
Seems like all this debt is imaginary. Maybe they can just start over.

i agree with you 100 %! just void the damn thing!

It would be great for us to void it but for China it would be terrible and they would not agree to it unless something else was in the deal for them.

Originally posted by AndrewSwann
Fox I agree. However to make this happen we would need everyone in the current government to leave and have a whole new one. Almost like a coup. The people and officials dont want this type of change so I Believe that we will fall. This will show them that our capitalism did not work and that we need drastic change. If this happens there is a chance but at what cost will it be acomplished? I guess we will wait and see.

Or... We could call for the release of the tech that draws energy from the plenum. That will get rid of the need for money, allow Us to restructure the planet and give everyOne the option of living richly.

Yes, it's a radical solution. But the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. As long as We're strapped to money in the society of Humanity, We will see poverty and a power elite. Rearranging our money supply rather than getting rid of the need for it is what We have done, over and over - and We result in vast poverty and a manipulating power elite. To change money is to do the same thing - it's insane.

So We need to do something different. That is why I came up with The End of Entropy and The Ethical Planetarian Party Platform. I hope you read them [smile]

GDP v National Debt by Country



UK Debt

*We owe £15,595 for every man, woman and child
*That's more than £33,902 for every person in employment
*Every household will pay £2,126 this year, just to cover the interest

www.debtbombshell.com...

Projected end of year debt = +60% of GDP

www.ukpublicspending.co.uk...

The real risk from government debt is the burden of interest payments. Experts say that when interest payments reach about 12% of GDP then a government will likely default on its debt.

www.ukpublicspending.co.uk...

In the US, projected end of year debt = +100% of GDP

www.usgovernmentdebt.us...


The entirely false construct of debt = growth needs to be torn down. Usury needs to be torn down and those self congratulatory loan sharks who pay themselves fat bonuses based upon debts that have yet to be realised need to be expunged.

But that would be even harder. I dont exactly see a way to get that to come into rule.

reply to post by AndrewSwann


Were you replying to my post? Take a look at the map in the link, note the countries operating in the black! (Not advocating socialism or multi-party presidential republics!) Countries with low debt to GDP ratios are, as far as I can see, more protectionist of national interests over corporate or banking interests.

No I was responding to the post before yours. That idea would work great and I am in total agreement with you. The US could not live this way though. The private usury should still stay in effect for ;arge purchases such as cars or houses but our government should not be buying any of those things. They get money from the citizens while they just sit around and yet they cannot make ends meet. The govenment needs a whole new idea of what you can spend in proportion to what you have. They spend until they are done no matter how much the debt is. It needs to end now.

Originally posted by AndrewSwann
Does anyone here belive the U.S. or U.K. could ever repay the unreal ammount of debt both countries owe? I do not see any way that these countries could ever pay back trillions of dollars. Does anyone have a resonable solution to it? With the rediculous spending and the constant western involvment in countries and situations that should not be taken on, I see no easy resolution without complete rebuilding. Throw around your opinions and ideas if you have any.

I know what we should do as a world.

Drop all the debt.

Just were the hell is all this debt owed!

Whoever it is owed to, just drop it.

Then each country can build its economies back to a healthy state.

China owns a large chunk our the US debt. They are a great military power and I dont belive they will do that but that seems to be one of the only plausible solutions

reply to post by AndrewSwann


Solutions to our world debt crisis?

1-call the crooks on their BS and abolish the politics of artificial scarcity
2-abolish usury



www.cafr1.com...
www.cafr1.com...
www.project.nsearch.com...

CAFRs: The Biggest Secret $60 trillion invested by US government www.abovetopsecret.com...

The One Thing they will not discuss, CAFR www.abovetopsecret.com...

NYC (just the city) is siting on 2.2 trillion Dollars of investment capital (liquid assets, stocks bonds etc) kept on this separate set of books.

the US-gov is sitting on 64 trillion Dollars

So youre saying that the government is not in debt counting their investments?