Autistic or Just Not Conformists?

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
I think that autism, although there are cases in which real issues are apparent, is a way too label social problems that are being "bred" into the average American.

Many people, not just kids, have severe problems in social situations and communication. Add to that a society in which we have better relationships with technology and we lose the basic fundamental tools we need to communicate with our fellow humans.

Since we are not willing to look within our lifestyles for the "cure", we reach for the pharma solution. Thereby perpetuating the problem, not solving anything.

edit on 30-4-2011 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)

Aye, one thing few people discuss is that severe depression in children can have an effect similar to that of autism.

Autistic or nonconformist?

Whichever label you apply, you’re still talking about someone who cannot handle social interactions effectively, who finds it difficult or impossible to form and sustain relationships with others.

And that, by whatever name you choose to call it, is a serious problem. Interaction and relationships with other people are defining factors of the human condition; Homo sapiens is an intensely social species. Someone who cannot cope with this aspect of life is as crippled, in his or her way, as someone lacking a leg. Indeed, I should say the amputee was far better off, in terms of being equipped for life, than a person who is autistic.

Saying an autistic person is ‘just not conformist’ doesn’t make their handicap go away. Pretending never makes real, except in fairy-tales and popular songs.

This kind of repackaging is not unfamiliar to those of us who are older. In the Sixties and Seventies, an attempt was made to pass schizophrenia off as a kind of ‘alternative’ (and therefore, we were encouraged to believe, somehow equally valid) way of looking at reality. This line was peddled by several psychologists and psychiatrists, most notably R.D. Laing, and actually enjoyed some acceptance among the more out-of-touch members of the academic establishment and their equally out-of-touch students. But looking at schizophrenia this way was no help to schizophrenics in overcoming the everyday difficulties they had in distinguishing reality from delusion. In fact, by pretending to elide the distinction between the two, it made matters worse.

Autism, like schizophrenia, is a terrible handicap for which there is no cure. Pretending that it is somehow less crippling than it is, or that it is simply an alternative, equally valid way of functioning, does not help. Better to acknowledge it for what it is, and do our best (which is admittedly none too good) to find a cure, or at least a palliative for it.

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A word to those who have been diagnosed with something called Asperger’s syndrome: this complex of behaviours bears some resemblance to autism, but is certainly not the same thing. An Asperger’s sufferer may experience agonies of discomfort or embarrassment and miss out on any number of opportunities for friendship, sex, love, etc., due to their inner-directedness and social ineptitude, but klutzhood, however extreme, is not the same thing as social multiplegia, which is what truly autistic people suffer from. A syndrome (look it up) is not a disease but a complex of symptoms or behavioral traits. An Asperger’s sufferer may be out there on the edge as far as normal social functioning is concerned, but they can still function. Some of the most highly-valued contributors to society and culture have been Asperger’s sufferers – mathematicians, musicians, chess-players, scientists. Sadly, those who suffer from autism are not known to contribute in this way.

Human love easy replies to things. They want autism to be xxx, the wipe their hands and be satisfied. Sadly they have no clue as to the actual issues involved. Here is the answer.

Autism as it is defined by behavior common to many children is a few different things - not one, though researchers thing the behavior is everything.

First, there are issues with vaccine generated autism, but this is not all. Depending on how bad the toxic issues are and how long, it can be fixed.

There are soulless being, there is no human higher self attached the soul and no other animating energy from any other higher self - this is not sad but a fact, as having children is NOT a guaranteed right and you are NOT guaranteed a human souled being simply because you had sex. This can also happen when a being who agreed to be the baby-soul, decided to quit, leaving the body without an animating energy. This can rarely be fixed.

People come on to any plane of existence for the first time. Some of the beings we see as autistic are folks who's incarnation is early on in the stages of development. They are lost newcomers. Some folks are fully incarnated, but simply very unevolved, they show up and seem autistic, when in fact they are simply less evolved then the average human. There is nothing to fix here.

The animal kingdom has taken the time recently to put aspects of itself into human bodies, they are appear to be autistic, but closer examination will show they act like..... animals. They are new too. There is nothing to fix here.

There are several other issues at play, but these are the most common. The others are going to be too confusing.

I will say it again. Humans have NO IDEA where the animating energy for babies come from, they barely even know how the earth based process works. They have no idea that they are not guaranteed a bouncy human baby because the had intercourse. There are nearly 7 billion people on the planet now, 20 years ago there was about half. So, where are all the animating energies coming from. Do you think there is an unlimited supply of bouncing human souls just dying to get onto this garbage heap simply because a guy and a girl shack up for two minutes and think having a baby is cool?

I am astounded at the total lack of self reflection that goes into this topic. Sex=perfect baby is all people know.

Wow, I am truly impressed by the quality and variety of input in the replies on this thread. It will take me some time to thoroughly process all the new information and insight given here, but I look forward to it.

The best part of all these replies is the humanity of them. Scientific articles address issues, but these replies bring home the truth that each statistic is a human living and striving and becoming-

Autism has 'crippled my life' in many ways- because of what other people have perceived I do not have- or cannot do- and the limitations people have placed on me- because of that perception. I see many, many normal people who should be blissfully happy because of their full range of emotions, communication skills, etc... in greater pain than I can imagine, every day. So who is crippled?

Some people cannot even be alone with themselves for a few hours in silence. But these same people find me odd because I cannot stand to be 'chatted at' non-stop for more than an hour or two at a time. This activity is considered 'conversation' but it reminds me more of the scraps I toss in my garden for compost. Bits of garbage they need to sort out and discard.

New information is coming out that an equal number of adults possess this 'disorder'- so it is not necessarily a new problem. So who is changing?

www.dailymail.co.uk...

reply to post by crankyoldman


The animal kingdom has taken the time recently to put aspects of itself into human bodies, they are appear to be autistic, but closer examination will show they act like..... animals. They are new too. There is nothing to fix here.

This comment you made fascinates me. Right or wrong, I perceive the energy in a closed system by necessity needs to recycle. As we cause the extinction of millions of animals, plants, even insects- and make it impossible for them to recycle in a similar form- might they not recycle into a more plentiful form, as long as there is the genetic ability encoded in that said form's DNA? I have wondered this- and now I read your post.

Obviously our DNA incorporates the required genetic accommodations for numerous other life forms.

You say people should put more thought into these things. Is this an original thought of your own then, or have you access to information for further study? If so, please share.

I like to imagine that a lot of people who post on the internet start their day by opening the paper and saying 'Now let's see what I know everything about today'. Then they neatly do away with the complexities presented by things like doing research or listening to others, and simply declare that despite tens of thousands of hours spent by science, philosophy and art contemplating the issue at hand, they have figured out the REAL truth. And it is represented by something like 'Most X are really just Y in denial' or 'Most Z are that way because they don't know what I know' or whatever. Then they dust off their hands, fold up the paper, and gaze off smugly into the distance, satisfied once again that their incredible brains can give them such clear wisdom without even having to read a bunch of boring books.

Please note this is not directed specifically at the OP or anyone else, because frankly I just skip past any post that shows signs of the above anyway, so I wouldn't know who to specifically criticize if I tried.

reply to post by sepermeru


Please note this is not directed specifically at the OP or anyone else, because frankly I just skip past any post that shows signs of the above anyway, so I wouldn't know who to specifically criticize if I tried.

Ha Ha! And some people like to wake up in the morning and say, ' Let's see, what thread shall I troll today,' as you so deftly point out by admitting you read none of the posts.

Thanks for the bump, anyway!

reply to post by Ev0lveUp


Goodness, you found every post here to be like what I described? That's pretty sad. I didn't even think so myself, and read quite a few of them. But I'm sorry that you see yourself in what I said. Why is that? How do you fit with what I said?

reply to post by sepermeru


0.o Oh hell...is my super intuitive decipher ring broken? Did I misread your post?

"Defensiveness anyone"? "Yes, I'll have two".

It's a bit difficult- having 'experts' write pages and pages on a 'condition', frequently not even listening to what the actual person experiencing it has to say. So when I read that you had skipped over posts- it pushed all my buttons.

reply to post by Ev0lveUp


I'm sorry, I probably should have been more clear. No, I think many responses here have been thoughtful, informed and useful. Maybe I should focus on posting about that instead of complaining, eh?

Autism is very real and very difficult. But it's also real that sometimes, we begin to overdiagnose and perceive specific real illnesses in many places we would not have before, and there is science to show that this effect is not just based on wider diagnostic ability, but only partly due to that. So the question of why we focus in on particular illnesses and syndromes at certain times is, I think, perfectly valid without having to undermine the reality of actual cases.

reply to post by sepermeru


Autism is very real and very difficult. But it's also real that sometimes, we begin to overdiagnose and perceive specific real illnesses in many places we would not have before, and there is science to show that this effect is not just based on wider diagnostic ability, but only partly due to that

Well said, and I agree. In attempting to understand differences, sometimes a label is developed and things get lumped in almost as a way to not have to do anything about them. That's almost as bad as denying there is a difference to begin with.

Spectrum illnesses are frightening concepts, regardless of the reason they're called that.

Autism is a real condition, I'm afraid. I've met several autistic people before, and they truly do have trouble communicting and developing/maintaining personal relationships. It's not merely a display of unconventional behaviour, however I think that perhaps there are some cases where the diagnosis is made too early.

I asked a psychologist how an individual could be diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome if they did not possess all of its common characteristics.

The psychologist's response was that people with Asperger's Syndrome can present very differently. She indicated that psychologists simply assess an individual's traits and offer a diagnosis that most closely matches them.

That being said, I'm not suggesting that Asperger's Syndrome is frequently diagnosed because it is a catchall. Sometimes its signs are subtle but when you look closely, Asperger's Syndrome is unmistakable.

I also asked a pediatrician what the difference is between Asperger's Syndrome and High Functioning Autism. He indicated that Asperger's Syndrome and High Functioning Autism are two labels to describe the same condition.

reply to post by Reaching


I also asked a pediatrician what the difference is between Asperger's Syndrome and High Functioning Autism. He indicated that Asperger's Syndrome and High Functioning Autism are two labels to describe the same condition.

Ah see, I had not been told that. Interesting! So it is possible that they consider the spectrum overlapping?

reply to post by Ev0lveUp


While I didn't directly ask the psychologist about the difference between Asperger's Syndrome and High Functioning Autism, she did seem to refer to them separately, suggesting that perhaps she regarded them as two distinct conditions.

Meanwhile, as mentioned, the pediatrician directly indicated that Asperger's Syndrome and High Functioning Autism are two labels to describe the same condition.

Perhaps the indicators in psychology/psychiatry are not as concrete as they are traditional medicine and accordingly, labels can be ambiguous.

Regardless of what you want to call it though, autism is very real and people with autism have a different way of interacting with the world.

reply to post by Reaching


Absolutely autism is real and the people with it have a different way of interacting with the world. There is no conflict in your statement or my post. Non-conformists also act differently then the rest of the world- so perhaps we are at odds over perceived motivation?

Having quite a bit of exposure to autistic friends of varying degrees, the most telling difference is that they cannot be motivated by existing protocols, without difficulty.

This all traces back in a way to my belief that we have eliminated vast consciousnesses in our determination to have a perfectly hygienic society- and the genes are there- but there is nothing to utilize them. So we just wind up with the bus, and no passengers.

The fact that our antibacterial, anti-viral, antimicrobial headhunt is really thriving at the same time that increasing cases are being diagnosed- supports this hypothesis, albeit tentatively.

reply to post by Reaching

As we’re discussing a psychiatric condition (or two) here, I think you’d be best advised to listen to the psychologist.

Since autism and Asperger’s syndrome share certain characteristics, it is probable that they are related. But even if they are simply two points along a spectrum of mental functioning and social activity, there is a big difference between them – a difference equivalent to that between being merely short-sighted and functionally blind. As any blind person could tell you, that’s a hell of a difference.

And if they really are points on a spectrum, shouldn’t that spectrum be extended to include normal social functioning, as well as extreme sociability and even a pathological need to be in human company at all times? Would sufferers from Williams’ Syndrome, who are highly articulate and sociable, but profoundly handicapped all the same, be on the spectrum too?

A word to the OP. Are you sure you’re autistic? Someone who can stand to be ‘chatted at’ for even an hour doesn’t sound very autistic to me. Frankly, I can’t take most people for more than a couple of minutes. If that. And nobody ever told me I was autistic.

reply to post by Astyanax


Thanks for the reply, although more and more information is coming out about autism that reveals it is far from only a psychological illness.

Also, you ask me if I am sure I am autistic because you cannot stand to be chatted at for an hour and no one has ever told you you are autistic? Do you see the flaw in that reasoning? I must not be autistic because I am not like you who has never been told is autistic? Um, what?

I apologize anyway, for the generalized analogy- as that was a 'made up' type of scenario to illustrate a point- not a scientifically deduced equation for diagnosis of autism. Hope that helps.

reply to post by Ev0lveUp

Also, you ask me if I am sure I am autistic because you cannot stand to be chatted at for an hour and no one has ever told you you are autistic? Do you see the flaw in that reasoning? I must not be autistic because I am not like you who has never been told is autistic? Um, what?

The above was an attempt to make a serious point in a humorous way. I am quite certain I am not autistic; I don’t need a diagnosis to tell me that. I am also fairly certain that people suffering from autism – the full-blown thing, not Asperger’s syndrome or undefined ASD – would find it very hard to pay attention to what a single person is saying for two hours at a time, unless the subject happened to be one very close to the sufferer’s heart.

Here are a few first-person accounts from people who are more or less autistic. I believe they bear out what I’m saying. Would you say the picture they paint is an accurate one?

reply to post by Astyanax


I think they might be a bit more on the emotional quotient than me, but I saw quite a few similarities. Thanks for taking the time to put up the link!

To be fair, agoraphobia keeps me out of most of the stressful and emotional situations they describe, and the natural world doesn't know there is anything wrong with me, so I don't have any issues in my garden with my plants or the wild ones. (They don't care that I'm awkward )

** clarification- 'chatted at' means I have no idea what they're talking about >.>