Natural Selection at a Near Spacefaring Civilization Level

This is a spin off thread from a replay I made to another thread earlier tonight, but I wanted to turn it into a full blown discussion. My First thread Btw..

What does it take for a civilization to make it to a level advanced enough to travel the stars? Lets take a look and see.

Based on our knowledge of evolution the fight for survival starts from the beginning. As the environment that a species has evolved from changes, that species (or individuals from that species) must change through genetic (figure 1) and/or physical (figure 2) adaptation(s) in order to survive and pass on their genes.

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Figure 1. Examples of different sized finch beaks, which are used to gather different types of foods.

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Figure 2. A chimp uses a stone as a tool.

As a species evolves to the level of language and civilization does this process of natural selection stop? No, programed in their brains, the species still carries a natural instinct for competition and survival. Only at this leveling they are more likely to be able to adapt to environmental changes due to their use of tools and knowledge. However, much like their earlier ancestors they fight with each other over resources, e.g., water, food, land, etc. in order to survive and pass their genes on (figure 3).

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Figure 3. Revolutionary solders fighting for land, 'freedom' and resources.

Eventually, if this species (being the dominant species on the planet) has not been wiped out due to a mass catastrophic event, it will discover how to exploit nature, i.e., discover how to use fire, electricity, nuclear fusion, etc. to its own benefit. Which brings me to our discussion...

Naturally, a species learns to exploit fire thousands of years before they discover electricity. Think of fire as level 1 on the pyramid of resources, the base. Next comes electricity, then fusion. You cannot discover fusion without fire and electricity. When thinking of electricity the first individual that comes to my mind is Nicola Tesla, the man who mastered it (or was well on his way if it hadn't been for continuous sabotage of his work). Now if you are unfamiliar with this person I highly suggest that you research him and his work, though being here on ATS I'm sure most, if not all of you, are familiar. Well, what you may not know is that Tesla (whether he knew it or not, I do not know) was in direct competition with Einstein over who would be responsible for guiding the direction of human intellect. Tesla for electricity, and Einstein for atomic fusion. Tesla believed that electricity was the future, and through further investigations it would lead humans to prosper and do incredible things, e.g., time travel, teleportation, etc.. Tesla also believed that research at the atomic level would bring only problems and destruction.

What if this choice is a critical step in the natural selection process? Surely, Natural selection does not stop once a species develops language and civilization and masters fire. Personally, I believe natural selection will continue on into space even for a spacefaring civilization, at one level or another. Discovering both at relatively the same time (electricity slightly before), and having to make a choice on which, electricity or fusion, would be the focus of funding and research has led me to believe that this is a critical step, which decides whether a species will survive or become extinct. As we remember, the species still has a natural instinct for survival and competition. Given the choice of fusion over electricity, the species has made it 10x harder to continue on with the game of survival. Look at all of the destruction this choice has lead us to. Now we are at a point where we can make it (atomic fusion), but we cannot control it. What if we would have listened to Tesla? Perhaps we could have found an answer to our current radiation problem. Perhaps we would be worse off (although I seriously doubt it)? Either-way, I'm sure if we can make it through these current problems and learn to control radiation, we will only encounter more crossroads of nature in our future. Ultimately, that will either lead us to "oz' or lead us to our demise.

I truly, believe that we humans carelessly dove too deeply into atomic fusion, without mastering what came before it (electricity). Believe it or not, Tesla was experimenting with the wireless transmission of power, something that is still in its infancy today. After much thought, I began to wonder....What if this is another natural selection curve-ball of nature's to keep a species from continuing on and reaching the leveling of space exploration because of a wrong choice, which proves it unworthy?

What are your thoughts on this?

Well why do you think further research into electricity would not have led to extremely deadly weapons itself. I don't think it's the weapon as much as the intellect controlling it.

Also some would argue that the discovery of fusion led to a fairly peaceful state of affairs since it's inception. Certainly it prevented an invasion of Japan and also halted any world wars since it's discovery.

I really fail to see the negativity of fusion and electricity was never pursued, as far as we know, to the levels of fusion.

What about the tech we haven't seen? What kind of tech do we possess? That is what i'm more interested in.

reply to post by TraptInTheSystem


You seem to equate "natural selection" and conscious choice as one and the same thing. Natural selection is not a "shall I do this or that?" process. It is a swim or drown situation based upon capabilities not choices.

Once saddled with a thinking brain that allows a choice of picking up a spear or flipping on the switch of a nuke planet, the situation has move on to another level. One we have not mastered. We amaze ourselves at what we can do and give little thought of where that leads us come tomorrow. The current growing awareness of the terrific dangers of nuclear power is a wakeup call.

Decisional mistakes in prime time is not natural selection but evidence of ignorance, not a lack of capabilities to arise to the occassion.

Does one think that wireless electricity transmission in the free air is a very safe mechanism? What's to stop that microwave oven from attacking you while you're driving it home in your electric car going amuck from the store? What's to stop airliners from crashing?

Have you ever stood under power line towers with a fluorescent tube before, and when it lights up do you think that's a very healthy place to stay?

reply to post by thepainweaver

When thinking of electricity the first individual that comes to my mind is Nicola Tesla.

Really?

Not Michael Faraday? Alessandro Volta? James Clerk Maxwell? Humphrey Davy? Benjamin Franklin? Charles-Augustin de Coulomb? Heinrich Hertz? Lord Kelvin? George Ohm? André-Marie Ampère?

If you think Tesla was the key figure in the study of electricity, it’s back to school for you, young fellow. Tesla is a favourite of conspiracy theorists, but that’s just because he was crazy, like them. He was also a great scientist – unlike them – but he did his best work well before the atomic age really got started. If he could have seen and understood the strides that were being made even as he lay on his deathbed, he might have changed his tune. Then again, he might not; he was a stubborn, narcissistic individual and may well have held to his ideas even after being proved wrong – again, much like a conspiracy theorist.

Originally posted by Astyanax
reply to post by thepainweaver

 

When thinking of electricity the first individual that comes to my mind is Nicola Tesla.

Really?

Not Michael Faraday? Alessandro Volta? James Clerk Maxwell? Humphrey Davy? Benjamin Franklin? Charles-Augustin de Coulomb? Heinrich Hertz? Lord Kelvin? George Ohm? André-Marie Ampère?

If you think Tesla was the key figure in the study of electricity, it’s back to school for you, young fellow. Tesla is a favourite of conspiracy theorists, but that’s just because he was crazy, like them. He was also a great scientist – unlike them – but he did his best work well before the atomic age really got started. If he could have seen and understood the strides that were being made even as he lay on his deathbed, he might have changed his tune. Then again, he might not; he was a stubborn, narcissistic individual and may well have held to his ideas even after being proved wrong – again, much like a conspiracy theorist.

I sure wish I had said that. Yeah 6 years studying Electrical Engineering (I have an MSEE) causes me to chuckle or face-palm each time I see something stupid like this... Tesla did some very interesting things and moved electrical transmission forward, but he hardly was the most brilliant or important person studying the field and yeah he was a bit nuts too.

reply to post by Aliensun


I've got to be honest, I more or less skimmed through the OP and replied.

reply to post by thepainweaver


I dunno I'm on the fence when it comes to "Evolution". The Bushman on the right has been living the same [if you believe the supposed time-line] for over 200,000 years relatively unchanged. Meanwhile a whole host of Supposedly advanced civilizations have come and gone. All the while we presently believe that we are the pinnacle of civilization...
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Originally posted by Illustronic
Does one think that wireless electricity transmission in the free air is a very safe mechanism? What's to stop that microwave oven from attacking you while you're driving it home in your electric car going amuck from the store? What's to stop airliners from crashing?

Have you ever stood under power line towers with a fluorescent tube before, and when it lights up do you think that's a very healthy place to stay?

I dunno. Tesla didn't seem to have a problem with it. Didn't he die an old man?
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reply to post by Astyanax


First, it is completely obvious you did not read my post, and if you did you need to go back to the second grade to learn reading comprehension, 'kid'. Second, your ability to list electricity scientists, and your authoritative argument are unimpressive. Tesla was merely the example that I used to get my idea across because I like him.

-Speak for yourself, as far as 'crazy conspiracy theorists' go. Did you forget what website you were posting on during your Google of 'electricity scientists'?