How do I know that YOU have consciousness?

Who sows consciousness in spacetime, reaps eternity.

reply to post by alphabetaone


You are talking about inborn intelligence.
The thought i am speaking about requires words.
Words then ideas and concepts.
Babies are concept free.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by alphabetaone

 

You are talking about inborn intelligence.
The thought i am speaking about requires words.
Words then ideas and concepts.
Babies are concept free.

edit on 28-4-2011 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Please, for starters I would appreciate it if you don't believe that you think you know better what it is I am talking about than I do.

Secondly, no I am not.

Thirdly, there aren't context dependent definitions of thought. Thought IS the ability to reason and show judgment, it's involuntary...and intellect plays no part whatsoever in that ability.

It is inconclusive as to whether or not babies are concept free... it cannot be proved or disproved.

reply to post by alphabet one


Are you a professional in the field of thought?
Where do you get your information?
Tell me more.

Originally posted by alphabetaone
Thought IS the ability to reason and show judgment, it's involuntary...and intellect plays no part whatsoever in that ability.

I'm not sure if I agree with this. I think thought can be non-judgmental and without reason.

Judging is judging. Reasoning is reasoning. Thought is thought.

One is not required for another to happen.

reply to post by yic17


Judgment is not the same as judging. There are multiple definitions of judgment.

Look at this definition of it, I bolded and underlined the applicable references.

judg·ment
   /ˈdʒʌdʒmənt/ Show Spelled[juhj-muhnt] Show IPA
–noun
1. an act or instance of judging.
2. the ability to judge, make a decision, or form an opinion objectively, authoritatively, and wisely, especially in matters affecting action; good sense; discretion: a man of sound judgment.
3. the demonstration or exercise of such ability or capacity: The major was decorated for the judgment he showed under fire.

4. the forming of an opinion, estimate, notion, or conclusion, as from circumstances presented to the mind: Our judgment as to the cause of his failure must rest on the evidence.
5. the opinion formed: He regretted his hasty judgment.
6. Law .
a. a judicial decision given by a judge or court.
b. the obligation, especially a debt, arising from a judicial decision.
c. the certificate embodying such a decision and issued against the obligor, especially a debtor.
7. a misfortune regarded as inflicted by divine sentence, as for sin.
8. ( usually initial capital letter ) Also called Last Judgment, Final Judgment. the final trial of all people, both the living and dead, at the end of the world.


Also, especially British , judge·ment.

Origin:
1250–1300; Middle English jug ( g ) ement < Old French jugement, equivalent to juge- (stem of jugier to judge) + -ment -ment

—Related forms
in·ter·judg·ment, noun
re·judg·ment, noun

—Synonyms
1. determination. 2. discrimination, discernment, perspicacity; sagacity, wisdom, intelligence, prudence. 6a. verdict, decree.

Find, contained therein, all applicable to thought. I'm sure I could go through the same exercise for "reason", but I'm sure you get my point.

reply to post by alphabetaone


Still. Thought doesn't mean judgment. I can have non-judgmental thoughts. Thoughts that are not even opinions.

While majority of our thoughts today are opinions and judgments - it is not necessary for a thought to be one.

Thought is thought - it's independent of being a judgment.

For example, I think inside of my mind "Chag Kala Wana"
What does it mean? Nothing. I just made something up that has no meaning, not an opinion or a judgment. But it is still a thought.

Definition of thought from Dictionary.com - the product of mental activity.

Originally posted by yic17


For example, I think inside of my mind "Chag Kala Wana"
What does it mean? Nothing. I just made something up that has no meaning, not an opinion or a judgment. But it is still a thought.

What you said, absolutely underscores my point perfectly..."Chag Kala Wana", are not words....not at all, but you reasoned and made a judgement that they are, in fact, not words but an incoherent collection of consonants and vowels.

Originally posted by yic17
Definition of thought from Dictionary.com - the product of mental activity.

Yes, but you forgot the other 25 definitions that follow on dictionary.com....I will, again, point out by bolding and underlining applicable entries:

thought

–verb

1. to have a conscious mind, to some extent of reasoning, remembering experiences, making rational decisions, etc.
2. to employ one's mind rationally and objectively in evaluating or dealing with a given situation: Think carefully before you begin.
3. to have a certain thing as the subject of one's thoughts: I was thinking about you. We could think of nothing else.
4. to call something to one's conscious mind: I couldn't think of his phone number.
5. to consider something as a possible action, choice, etc.: She thought about cutting her hair.
6. to invent or conceive of something: We thought of a new plan.
7. to have consideration or regard for someone: Think of others first.
8. to esteem a person or thing as indicated: to think badly of someone.
9. to have a belief or opinion as indicated: I think so.
10. (of a device or machine, especially a computer) to use artificial intelligence to perform an activity analogous to human thought.

–verb (used with object)
11. to have or form in the mind as an idea, conception, etc.
12. to consider for evaluation or for possible action upon: Think the deal over.
13. to regard as specified: He thought me unkind.
14. to believe to be true of someone or something: to think evil of the neighbors.
15. to analyze or evolve rationally: to think the problem out.
16. to have as a plan or intention: I thought that I would go.
17. to anticipate or expect: I did not think to find you here.

–adjective
18. of or pertaining to thinking or thought.
19. Informal . stimulating or challenging to the intellect or mind: the think book of the year. Compare think piece.

–noun
20 .Informal . the act or a period of thinking: I want to sit down and give it a good think.
—Verb phrases
21. think of,
a. to conceive of; imagine.
b. to have an opinion or judgment of.
c. to consider; anticipate: When one thinks of what the future may bring, one is both worried and hopeful.
22. think out / through,
a. to think about until a conclusion is reached; understand or solve by thinking.
b. to devise by thinking; contrive: He thought out a plan for saving time.
23. think up, to devise or contrive by thinking: Can you think up an arrangement of furniture for this room?
—Idioms
24. think better of, to change one's mind about; reconsider: She considered emigrating to australia, but thought better of it.
25. think fit, to consider advisable or appropriate: By all means, take a vacation if you think fit.
26. think nothing of. nothing ( def. 19 ) .

Originally posted by alphabetaone
What you said, absolutely underscores my point perfectly..."Chag Kala Wana", are not words....not at all, but you reasoned and made a judgement that they are, in fact, not words but an incoherent collection of consonants and vowels.

1. Who says a thought cannot be "an incoherent collection of consonants and vowels"? From my previous definition, any mental activity can be a thought.

2. I "reasoned" and made "judgment" with my "reply" .. I never said I wasn't. But my "example" of "Chag Kala Wana" wasn't a judgment nor a reasoning.

Thoughts are related to what we observe, feel and sense with our body.

We can choose to have a neutral thought, until we share our thoughts with others.

Our mind will always categorize and store what we observe. Our mind will categorize feelings and senses.

Our body has a limits to how much pain it will endure. and your mind will either force "You" or your body to make choices. Your mind can make your body react to pain instantly, but You can override that ability if you choose to do so.

To make a choice is to have thoughts. We always have thoughts no matter what. If we can remember is a totally different thing.

reply to post by yic17


... huh.

reply to post by spy66


The point is though babies don't have a choice, they can't decide, not to begin with, they are born without the ability to think.
They learn behaviour, words, how to judge and reason.
All babies can do is put things in their mouths to feel and taste the environment. They are no more than sensors, they sense the environment.
Thought, judgement and reason are learned behaviour.
If you watch a baby you can see it reflect the environment.

Thought is an ability to react to something that is not happening.
Thought is the illusion of opposites, good/bad, right/wrong, yesterday/tomorrow.
Babies do not learned to lie until humans teach them.
The truth is obvious to a baby until it is confused by the human world of 'things'.

If you are conscious, that is, if you know that you are conscious, even if I am simply a manifestation of your mind, then, as I, being a manifestation of your mind, are also a part of your consciousness, thus, I am conscious, to the same extent that you are.

There can be separate fields of consciousness, but only to the extent that they can create new consciousness between them.

reply to post by yic17

This is what I've found useful for me.

The question you ask is a question that only you can prove to yourself. No science experiment is at the level of proving this, but they are knocking at the door. You are the only conscious being in your universe. Your dilemma is a matter of perspective. The others you interact with are reflections of you, as you are to them. However, they don't take part in shaping your world. You decide what world you are going to live in, and the others that are in that world you have chosen, have also made a similar choice. The other world you could have lived in still exists, but you can't see it because you chose not to live in it. Your free will creates your world. Once you chose your reality, accept it. Blame no one but you for where you are. Accept full responsibility and be content with it, while at the same time realizing that you can leave it and enter a new modality.

The only thing in the world you can know with certainty is your own experiences. No one can ever prove something to you. They can try, but it is only proof to themselves, unless you believe it also. Doing this puts you two in the same world. Had you not had faith in what this person had to say, they will disappear from your reality. If they stay in your life, you still have more to learn from them.

If you truly want to know anything, ask and the universe will show you. You are on your way to figuring it all out, simply because you asked.

I'm going to be honest with you, if this is your perception of reality then you have one screwed up mind, greed, wars, fooseball, Peewee Hermon, men's gymnastics, what the heck is wrong with you? Pull yourself together and create a therapist. This is your brain telling you that you need help.

You also had to edit this post but you didn't give a reason...now that's deep.

Originally posted by The_Phantom
I'm going to be honest with you, if this is your perception of reality then you have one screwed up mind, greed, wars, fooseball, Peewee Hermon, men's gymnastics, what the heck is wrong with you? Pull yourself together and create a therapist. This is your brain telling you that you need help.

You also had to edit this post but you didn't give a reason...now that's deep.

edit on 29-4-2011 by The_Phantom because: (no reason given)

Even therapist are screwed up, ha ha. I am one.

Again to answer the op's question. You are questioning from the paradigm of solipsism or materialism. It sounds like you think you are your thoughts, but you are not. You are a witness to your thoughts. If you think, you are a character in the play then you will have questions about others in the play. Your question starts with a false inherited premise that you are who you think you are. This may make no sense at all for awhile...Again, you are a witness, a consciousness, an awareness. The body and mind are simply tools to experience.

Originally posted by yic17
Okay, here's a philosophical question I have read many times but haven't gotten a solid answer yet.

So I know that "I" have consciousness. But how do I know that YOU or any other living being on Earth/Universe also have consciousness?

Is there any way anyone can show solid proof that you have consciousness besides of saying "I know because I do!"?

How do I know that I am not the only conscious thing in the Universe and that everything is just within my mind?

Thanks.

because i am consciously telling you that this is a stupid thread

You know what the real answer to this should be?

That if you even had doubt that *I* (anyone who responds here) does have consciousness, then any answers you get would be moot in the first place. It simply wouldn't matter.

Originally posted by yic17
Okay, here's a philosophical question I have read many times but haven't gotten a solid answer yet.

So I know that "I" have consciousness. But how do I know that YOU or any other living being on Earth/Universe also have consciousness?

Is there any way anyone can show solid proof that you have consciousness besides of saying "I know because I do!"?

How do I know that I am not the only conscious thing in the Universe and that everything is just within my mind?

Thanks.

How do you know 'you' have consciousness, you may have been created with that state only to fulfill the purpose of asking those questions, maybe you are a part of my imagination that i wished existed and wondered about those things, so that i could spend some time on ATS reading about this?

You may be thinking something right now while reading my reply, but maybe i decided you would have those thoughts because i wanted for you to think that way?

Lets try a little experiment, how good is your imagination? lets create a character, a complex one, lets add some misfortune to her life, then let her have some nice things in life, but at the same time let her feel dispair, imagine her questioning the meaning of her life, can you do that? to help you out think of her being blonde, add personal details, small, tall, skinny, blue, green eyes, whatever, then visualize her going to the store, shopping around, going to school, driving or whatever, if you keep adding things to this imaginary person, eventually you will turn her into a full character right? so, make it so that she questions her existence for hours and hours, have you created life? is she inside your mind only or does she exists somewhere? can you just forget about here and make her disappear, or maybe she has turned into something so big and with life of her own, that now you can't just let her go away? i wonder what would happen if you start adding more persons around here, let her have children, take care of them, are you creating a world around her or is everything on your imagination? will you start caring about her like you would care about tv characters, where you sometimes feel for them as if they were real?

Wait but this doesn't have anything to do with you question?

to the poster of the opening post.

What I think is that you mean you differ from other people because of your own motivations and standards, since they are true to what life is, and you don't see them in others. You sense they don't have these laws and knowledge and it makes you differ to them, knowing they don't have this consciousness. It makes one wonder howcome others aren't born with this knowledge. There is only one life and makes one think howcome others can be living like they are. They don't use life, do they think life, I mean, do they search for the strenght in life. The strenght knowledge and insight gives. Do they strive to know the essences of what knowledge can bring. The satisfaction of have being able to obtain the essences in knowing.

They are, without being mean, materialists. They live on the world, while we live on something that cannot be touched. They need matter for their wishes to be fulfilled. We left matter aside to know and to live the consciousness we have only to expand, to become more drenched in knowledge. We are looking for other things they are. We do not have the urge of connecting to this world. What makes me wonder the most is howcome these people don't have this drive to knowledge. After knowing so much one suddenly falls into the knowing of not knowing. One cannot have all he has obtained of insight stored in ones mind. It became the drive to who you are. It saturates the body.

some thoughts.+