Bible verses clearly condone the Killing of Gays and Witches.

Originally posted by dalan.
reply to post by Praetorius

 

You do get at my general point, though, in that HOW to follow that law (as well as addressing specific mandates within it) is up for further review, on my part at least. By definition, sin is transgression of the law, and Christ never referred to giving any new law.

Only a fool uses something like the Bible as a tool for establishing any law. It doesn't matter what the Bible says, its all irrelevant whether its the Old or New Testaments.

Here is what the bible says about fools:
Proverbs 18:2 ESV A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Proverbs 1:7 ESV The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 10:23 ESV Doing wrong is like a joke to a fool, but wisdom is pleasure to a man of understanding.

Proverbs 18:7 ESV A fool's mouth is his ruin, and his lips are a snare to his soul.

Ecclesiastes 7:9 ESV Be not quick in your spirit to become angry, for anger lodges in the bosom of fools.

Proverbs 15:21 ESV Folly is a joy to him who lacks sense, but a man of understanding walks straight ahead.

Proverbs 10:8 ESV The wise of heart will receive commandments, but a babbling fool will come to ruin.

James 2:20-24 ESV Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Matthew 7:26 ESV And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

Proverbs 14:29 ESV Whoever is slow to anger has great understanding, but he who has a hasty temper exalts folly.

Proverbs 15:7 ESV The lips of the wise spread knowledge; not so the hearts of fools.

Proverbs 14:8 ESV The wisdom of the prudent is to discern his way, but the folly of fools is deceiving.

reply to post by Danbones


Hadn't seen some of that, but I knew that he was gay. Gruesomely ironic that he had the Bible created that (barely) condemns his behavior.

Yes, I agree. The rules were there to ensure we got along, and I figure if the Bioble really is what some say it is, homosexuality wasn't THAT big a deal. There's LOTS more in there about burning offerings to the Lord than condemnation of homosexual acts. So I was thinking, if one wanted to take the homosexuality thing seriously, one should surely be making many burnt offerings. I mean, it just doesn't seem to be the big issue given its rare mention.

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by lastrebel

 

Where did Jesus over-ride such laws upon His death?

Please explain.

but many gentiles did not want to follow the dietery laws or go through the painful and risky surgery of adult circumcision.


But then, rather conveniently, Peter went into a trance and interpreted a rather disputable vision as doing away with all dietery restrictions (Acts 10:9-16).

Well if Peter's interpretation of a vision while in a trance was disputable maybe the laws Moses interpreted while he was without food and water for 40 days are also disputable.

Reply to post by tinfoilman

Wow. You totally massacred Matthew 5.




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reply to post by tinfoilman

Of course the early church continued to follow the law. The apostles and the early church were Jews. That's how they grew up and were raised. But for gentiles these traditions don't apply.

seems the few instances that can be found are relative to winning Jews and only understanding in part-like the Sabbath is still to this day by many

For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ.

when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles

When I was with the Jews, I lived like a Jew to bring the Jews the Good News of Christ. When I was with those who follow the Jewish law, I too lived under that law. Even though I am not subject to the law, I did this so I could bring to Christ those who are under the law. PRT

And it is yet far more evident if, in the likeness of Melchizedek, there arises another priest who has come, not according to the law of a fleshly commandment, but according to the power of an endless life. For He testifies
“ You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.”

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


Care to point out where? I posted the quotes of what I was quoting. Did Jesus not say he had come to fulfill the law? Did Jesus not give a list of rules to follow in Matthew 5? What are you arguing against? You make a claim with nothing, point out where you disagree.

Can't we all just agree on common sense?, Rock and batteries in a sock = WTF, hitting someone with said weapon =Bad. Doing it because a book told you to = Epic Fail. Also he said gays should be stoned to death because he read it in a book at least 2000 years old, and some how thought rock or rocks in a sock and batteries.

Clearly he had no common sense, as he tried to stone someone, with batteries and a sock being 2/3rds of the weapon. So I don't think we should blame Christianity or any religion we should blame the act or individual. Depending on your beliefs of blaming the sin not the sinner.

Personally I think we need to own up to our own actions and not hide behind religion or any other scapegoat, or else someone will always have a perfectly good reason for committing heinous acts. Again If your gonna kill someone by doing something like that. I don't think you really need the bible to give you the official thumbs up, just my opinion on it.

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
I think that its time for those that are "representatives" of the "word" should realize that this is deemed as wrong because of the actions that it represents! Stop picking and choosing what you think that god said, and either stand by it or move on. You cannot be taken seriously if you cannot be behind your faith.. whether you like the repercussions or not.

Stop blaming the O.T, or the so called misrepresentation, that only "you" can understand. This is a book and word of violence. It always has been and always has be.

Peace, NRE.

hmmm, I guess you are to live up to your pagan idiots like Manson, Pol Pot, stalin, etc...
How silly these args are when the profane attempt to become moral authorities over those they know nothing about and a scripture they have yet to venture into.
But somehow you know what others know about it and you simply project ignorance to your imaginary foe.
So, as society falls into the abyss LOOOOOOOONG after the secularising of everything government, even religion literaly abolishing any feint resemblance of Christian life and values, when does the secular/pagan world accept fault for DU poisoning entire populations for the sake of oil and the like????
I mean really, are you waiting for government to become moral for you? Good luck in waiting.

edit: lol, if I don't point out the obvious it will look to some as condoning this act from silence.
It does not take alot of study of Yashayah's teachings to know this guy knew about as much as you do of scripture.
I easily put this murderer in the same camp as most of the gossips that are trolling this thread. But I will have a hard time believing he was a disciple of the Savior. Where's the evidence? Where's the fruit?
I hear the old Babylon religion is catching on though.
It was based upon comfort, leisure and the elevation of government and laws as god. I see alot of proselytites here.I wonder if they know they are deeply religious?

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

If you believe that Jesus had a divine message, you believe him. The problem is that Paul came along and changed a bunch of stuff, and made being Christian a whole lot easier by promising Jesus did it all for you. And................thats not what Jesus says. Jesus gives you a whole lotta work to do, and he says it will be hard, and that only a few will take that harder narrow path.

Your pastor is following Pauline doctrine. If I had to lay bets with my immortal soul, I would follow Jesus and take that harder, narrower road less traveled of trying to live as Jesus lived, and do as he asked us to do. But thats just me.

Let me just say that it is VERY refreshing to meet someone who understands.
Thank you!

reply to post by halfoldman


The Bible is every little bit as sick and twisted as the Koran and every other religious book.

The bible also mentions how one should cost a slave or how your wife should be put to death for sleeping with another man (or woman)..lol

The sooner all holy books are burnt and banned, the safer and nicer the earth will be..!!

reply to post by halfoldman

The problem with most people who try to understand the bible is that when God goes to Israel everybody wants to claim it. Who did He give the law to Moses and Israel. Who did Jesus say he came to Earth to teach I've come for the lost sheep of the house of Israel He told a Gentile woman, when she wanted help.
When Israel rejects Jesus in the book of Acts we finally see God through the writer say "Lo we turn to the Gentiles".

I think all of you people arguing about what the bible says/said are basically wasting your typing efforts. How can you guys trust a book written by a human? Do you REALLY know if they were contacted by God? Maybe they were on some sort of peyote trip? Why is it moses was alone in the mountains and not with a group of people? We don't know what really happened, all we have are the words of some human to hang from.

I'm pretty agnostic, but i lean more towards "There could be a god" but I will not let a book written thousands of years ago by a single man who I never knew, dictate my life. I don't understand why so many people are so weak, that they have to turn to a multi-thousand year old book for answers... I see it like this.... If god exists, then he gave me the ability to make my own decisions and gave me (personally) good morals. I don't need a book to tell me what's wrong and right, I just know what is.

For those that have never read the Bible properly, the life of the Israelite was easily corrupted and in the old days the purity of the religion was kept in place by hard and fast rules. A lot of those rules preceeded what we now know as correct by way of washing, diseases etc.
Someone who would corrupt a people is to be kept from them. In this case keeping someone alive who corrupted the people would just spread their sin according to the Bible.

However, since Jesus, the way to reach God was no longer living lives that required rules and sacrifices. Everlasting life was now based on grace not performance (something the Catholics still need to learn).

So the Bible does not condone the killing of gays and witches for over 3000 years as those practices were not even followed properly in the latter days of the OT.

So what is your point again, because those that live under God now are bound by different rules and so for the last 2000 years at least, homosexuals and witches could live the way they wished and be judged later. Where deaths have occurred, is based on man deciding otherwise and that he would like to be the judge instead of God.

So anyone who wished physical harm to anyone might indeed read the Bible but they do not belong to God according to that same book. Knowing the words of the book mean nothing toward salvation, for as it says, even demons know the Bible better than most living men.

So as the Bible Christians live by does not condone what you say it does, I ask. What was your point?

So is making a graven idol, but Moses was told to make a graven image of a serpent from Bronze, killing is wrong, but Moses was told to kill, stealing was wrong, but Moses was told to take the land and properties of the conquered, lusting after your neighbors wife is wrong, but he was told to take the wives and daughters of the slain for his people...

In all this he did not question God, save at one point, questioning his power to get water from a rock.

Now those of you who fear God to the point of not questioning him, not his existence but his person...will never know him.

Like Issac who took his son up to be slain...

These people never known God, God tested the people to see if they would rise up against Moses when he commanded them to do contrary to the commandments. Not one spoke out.

And because of this they wandered 40 years to land a stone's throw from the gate of their captivity.

Originally posted by halfoldman
I read that a 17-year-old US man murdered a 70-year-old man, because the older man had allegedly solicited on the younger, but the youngster believed God justified him in beating the old man to death.
There is no proof about what the old man did.
Whatever the case, the defendant is clearly called a "man", and he was not a child.
thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...

A 28 year-old Philadelphia-area man admitted he stoned to death a 70 year-old man because the Bible says to stone homosexuals. John Joe Thomas reportedly killed Murray Joseph Seidman, whom he knew, and told police, “I stoned Murray with a rock in a sock,” because he had read in the Bible that gays should be stoned.

According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, “The young man and Seidman were often seen together grocery shopping and going to church,” and “He then described how he placed batteries and rocks in a sock, and hit Seidman in the head at least 10 times.”

Think about this. Gays are being stoned to death in 21st century America. Actually, we don’t even know if the man who was stoned was gay, but his murderer thought he was

edit on 21-4-2011 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)

Isn't that from the Old Testament otherwise known as the Torah for Jews?
Wouldn't it be nice if there was a new Quran/Koran

reply to post by rumor21


The quotes show the verses and the translations. NLT is New Living Translation and NAB is New American Bible.

Originally posted by JerryB08
. I believe in Jesus. However in every book you have to take in account that humans are wretched beings and I'm sure the authors added or edited or miss translated what was useful to them.

How do you decide what to believe in the bible and what not to believe?

If it is possible that some of the bible was edited or mistranslated, then isn't it possible ALL of it was?

I have a big problem with this thread and the way people are looking at this. If someone told you to jump off a bridge because they said when you hit the ground you would be free and happy unconditionally, would you do it? [Keep in mind this is an actual person you can see, touch, and hear their voice, who is reassuring you that this is correct] ... No. I thought so.

So here we are in the 21st Century, and we have people taking a book off a shelf, rationalizing that it in some way speaks an ultimate truth about how and what -people- [other human beings who are absolutely no different then you in any way. You both breath the same air, food comes from the same earth, and your minds are free to choose what you want to believe.] get to live. A text, ink on page can some how justify such action against another human being.

Irrationality is the brother of stupidity, and yet here we are as a society, plagued by individuals who like to entertain the two. I'm tired of hearing of this barbarism taking place, and everyone pointing fingers at whose the worst. When in reality, all they bring to this world is a sense of division and hatred.

If you want to be a human being, and do what is "RIGHT". Be a good human being to another human being. Treat them with respect and lend a helping hand. AND if you disagree, agree to disagree and go about your business. Thats how simple it gets. Enough with this insanity. No one cares what you believe or why, just respect the FREE WILL to chose what to believe as an individual.

If we created a respectful forum in order to discuss and debate things in a civilized manner, people could actually begin to understand their beliefs better and we wouldn't have this idiotic war going on, on an international scale and domestic.

Tolerance. People. Tolerance.

PS: For all those quote people.

Matt. 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

We as a people. Not a religion, or sect. Believe and know it is WRONG to KILL.

Maybe you should all stop being so "Religious" and be more of a "Person".

Reality Check anyone?

reply to post by halfoldman


Its disgusting religion believes in this, and condones it, i hope religion falls and falls hard and so does every person who kills and condones the death of gays and lesbians.

I think a lot of people have trouble with Christianity because they read it and see Jesus as a kind and loving God. Then once the Bible is cracked open and the earlier stuff is read, people wonder, "Is this the same God?"

How do you reconcile the fact in the Bible it does say to kill witches, homosexuals, adulterers, etc. And yet Jesus the Christ Himself said:

KJV Matthew 22:36-40

Then one of them, [which was] a lawyer, asked [him a question], tempting him, and saying, Master, which [is] the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

But having said that Jesus said he came to fulfill the law and that not one bit of the law was to be removed.

What are the Laws of Moses used for? Its like a compass, it lets you know what is good and what is evil. It also provided civic & civil codes, and the basis for a theocracy ruled by God.

Evil things:
Witchcraft
Being homosexual
Cheating on your wife/husband
Stealing
Murdering

Before Christ died and rose again there was no sin "eraser" and every bad deed had to be "covered" with a sacrifice and repentance.

Who is the target audience for the Law? God's children.

While the Law is universal, the enforcement of it is not. Any 1 sin = death in the spiritual sense (Read as: go to hell)

But back to the comparison, why don't Christians follow Levitical law?

The answer is simple and cheesy: Because the law is death, the law cannot save you from sin only condemn you. We follow life, just as the Jews did when those laws were written, we put our hope and trust in the saving unmerited grace of God.

So when someone asks me why I don't kill someone who is homosexual or witch I just think of the fact that I am in no place to put an eternal judgement on someone. I am though more then happy enough to say what right and wrong according to scripture.