Arizona gov. vetoes presidential 'birther' bill

Originally posted by backinblack
Because you say so...
Sure mate, no one ever breaks the law..

Who are you accusing of breaking what law or is this how birthers try to distract?

Originally posted by backinblack
Has it not already been shown that by illegal means and very few people involved, a short form was quite easy to obtain back then?

The answer is no three times now unless you can show any different. Can you?

Originally posted by kro32
There is more than enough proof of his birth certificate and even pictures of it, just not with the state seal on it because it is a copy.

But there is a state seal on it.

See the Third Picture

Any republican calling for further proof is just walking into a cleverly laid trap by Obama.

Obama didn't set this trap. The birthers set themselves up and Obama is just standing on the sidelines watching as the GOP splits down the center over this issue. He is just practicing the old saying: Never interrupt your opponent while they're making a mistake.

I knew this bill wouldn't pass, but I'm kind of disappointed. I would have loved to watch the political drama played out. That would have been a great show! But there will be plenty of great stuff to come in the next year and a half.

reply to post by Sinnthia


Gee Sin you talk your role seriously..
Now you answer for others..

The answer is no three times now unless you can show any different. Can you?

I've seen the rules...
You tell me why it couldn't be done if someone wanted to..
Seems easy to me..

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

I knew this bill wouldn't pass, but I'm kind of disappointed. I would have loved to watch the political drama played out. That would have been a great show! But there will be plenty of great stuff to come in the next year and a half.

I heard the bill isn't dead..
It just needs to go back for a re vote and get 2/3 majority which it did the first time anyway..

Originally posted by backinblack
You have to wonder what happened to majority rule and representative Government in the US..

In the US, a majority cannot rule to take away the rights of another. We elect our government to represent us, sure, but not to legislate unconstitutional practices.

Originally posted by backinblack
But doesn't this bill merely mimic existing Fed rules?

No. If it did, there would be no 'need' for it. Why have a redundant law? You need to read about how it violates the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution. Give it a try. Southern Guardian explained why it's unconstitutional on page one. Surely you support the Constitution?
.

reply to post by kro32

There is more than enough proof of his birth certificate and even pictures of it, just not with the state seal on it because it is a copy. There's a reason people like O'reilly and Limbaugh are not on board with this. It's because if Obama falters in the polls for whatever reason he is gonna whip this thing out and make the birthers look like complete idiots.

Any republican calling for further proof is just walking into a cleverly laid trap by Obama.

Obama's COLB document that has had its image published on the internet DOES have the embossed state seal on it, and the signature of the authorized official responsible for maintaining the vital statistics data for the State of Hawai'i. Pictures of that COLB document that clearly show these security and authenticating items have been published on the internet too.

I don't believe that this is a "cleverly laid trap by Obama", the Birthers dug this hole all by themselves. However I am sure President Obama is aware of Napoleon's advice: "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake".

reply to post by backinblack

but the president needs to be a natural born citizen and the short form simply doesn't adequately prove that..

Of course it does. It gives the exact location of his birth: Honolulu Hawaii. It also lists his parents who we know were not foreign diplomats nor members of an invading army.

That is absolute, 100% proof that he is a natural born citizen.

There is no wiggle room.

Arizona is bound by the Constitution to recognize the Birth Certificate as provided by the State of Hawai'i. Article IV Section 1 reads:

Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.

The birth certificate in question meets the 100% of the criteria that Congress has prescribed to prove such records.

There is no controversy. Except in your mind.

reply to post by backinblack

But doesn't this bill merely mimic existing Fed rules?

No it does not, despite its sponsors claims. For a start, it rejects passports as acceptable evidence.

For an analysis of the differences between the Arizona bill and the Federal rules it claims to be modeled on see CIPA v HB2177

Originally posted by backinblack
Has it not already been shown that by illegal means and very few people involved, a short form was quite easy to obtain back then?

No, it has not been shown, just repeated often.

Okubo, who said that she gets weekly questions from Obama ‘Birthers’ that are “more like threats,” explained that the certificate of live birth reproduced by Obama’s campaign should have debunked the conspiracy theories. “If you were born in Bali, for example,” Okubo explained, “you could get a certificate from the state of Hawaii saying you were born in Bali. You could not get a certificate saying you were born in Honolulu. The state has to verify a fact like that for it to appear on the certificate.

Source

Originally posted by backinblack
I heard the bill isn't dead..
It just needs to go back for a re vote and get 2/3 majority which it did the first time anyway..

As far as I can find, you are correct about that. And so you don't have to say "I heard..." here's the source: Arizona State Government.

The governor has a veto power over legislation, including the more powerful line-item veto with respect to appropriation bills. However, the legislature can override the governor’s veto with a supermajority vote (although this is rarely done).

Interestingly, the AZ legislature COULD have bypassed the governor, but they chose not to...

The legislature can also bypass an anticipated veto by sending the measure to the people through the referendum process. (The governor has no veto over any citizen-initiated measures.)

Both of these statements together lead me to believe that the legislature was just doing this 'for show' For a Tea Party Show. They knew the governor wouldn't sign it. If they wanted to guarantee that it passed, they could have skipped over the Governor (and her veto) and put it to the people. It SURELY would have passed if the people got their hands on it! In other words, the legislature KNEW it was unconstitutional and wouldn't pass Brewers desk. But they come out smelling like roses for their constituents... (who probably don't know they could have skipped the gov's veto)

The people of AZ (and the nation) are being manipulated even more then they know! Now all the Tea Party legislators have job security because they tried so hard for AZ to get rid of the usurper! They will be voted in again, a new governor might NOT veto this legislation next time it comes around and it will go to the Supreme Court and be found to be unconstitutional and be thrown out. Again.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Obama didn't set this trap. The birthers set themselves up and Obama is just standing on the sidelines watching as the GOP splits down the center over this issue. He is just practicing the old saying: Never interrupt your opponent while they're making a mistake.

I hadn't read this far in the thread when I made my post above! Honest!

Sorry Bene...

reply to post by backinblack

I've seen the rules...
You tell me why it couldn't be done if someone wanted to..
Seems easy to me..

Then do it. If you talk the talk, you got to walk the walk. If it can be done do it.

Don't worry, I'm not holding my breath. It can't be done. The Hawai'ian law that allowed out-of-state births to be registered in Hawaii didn't exist until 1981, the the child being registered must be less than 1 year old (Obama was 19 or 20 by that time), and most importantly, it MUST show the ACTUAL place of birth. (i.e. if the kid was born in Mombasa to tourists from Hawai'i, then returned to Hawai'i, the out-of-state registration will show the Location of Birth to be Mombasa, not Honolulu).

Its been claimed to be 'easy to do' for almost 3 years now, why aren't there dozens of examples on display? If Hawai'i is so casual with its vital records, why hasn't the US State department canceled every passport ever issued to people who claim to have been born in Hawai'i? There should be millions of examples of that to use as evidence of the fraud perpetrated by Hawai'ian State officials. Why isn't the entire State Government in prison already?

Do you not recognize how stupid this idea is?

reply to post by rnaa

Its been claimed to be 'easy to do' for almost 3 years now, why aren't there dozens of examples on display?

You want people to come forward and admit they committed fraud??
I don't see that happening...

haha i wonder if we would have to see proof of hillarys circumsicion !!!!! Well i know she can prove old bill had two....think about it .....there it is !!

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by tungus

 

Gov has a point.. there should have been a bipartisan panel created to judge the candidates..

Yes. You either show your birth certificate or you don't qualify.
How hard could that be?
Of course, that might be a problem for someone with dual citizenship so you might want to keep that locked.

Originally posted by Sinnthia
reply to post by tungus

 

You are dissapointed that the Governor did not violate the constitution?
What kind of patriots are you birthers?

Disappointed? No, am enjoying the circus no matter which way it turns.
I do not vote, ----the most patriotic thing I can do for my country.

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by tungus

 

I think she did the right thing.

Chicken? Hardly.

The birthers are the real chickens. They have no answers to anything so they've decided to troll Obama with this birth certificate nonsense.

This could go away really fast and forever....if we only saw the birth certificate.
Obama is the troll here. He is the one trolling by creating the issue in first place.
I wonder how much costs the taxpayer the legal fees for his records to be kept sealed?
We not only can't see his records but we also are paying not to see them. Oh, the irony...
Remember, the birth certificate is only one of the things he keeps locked.
His school records, his Harvard thesis, and so on.
Wouldn't you like to know the views of a person running for President?
I am more interested in his papers from Harvard than the birth certificate.

Originally posted by backinblack
Simple FACT is the short form does NOT adequately prove someone to be a "natural born citizen"...

Putting the word "Fact" in all caps does not magically transform a disproved claim into a "fact".

The tonnage of evidence, law and yes "facts" all agree that the COLB that President Obama presented is valid and true.

No evidence has been presented to the contrary that hasn't been debunked.

The statement you make above is false on every concievable level.

All we have to do is amend the Constitution to require all Presidential Candidates to

be an American Born citizen.........Oh wait...............

Originally posted by backinblack
So tell me, how does a Short Form 100% prove all requirements of "natural born citizenship" ??
Has it not already been shown that by illegal means and very few people involved, a short form was quite easy to obtain back then?

Back then? You are un-informed on the issue. The COLB that then candidate Obama has released was issued in 2007.

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by rnaa

 

Its been claimed to be 'easy to do' for almost 3 years now, why aren't there dozens of examples on display?

You want people to come forward and admit they committed fraud??
I don't see that happening...

Michelle Bachmann is an alien from the planet Parphenia...those aliens constitute a large segment of the US population.

Why doesn't the public at large not know about it?

You want people to come forward and admit they Aliens from Parphenia??
I don't see that happening...

I can plug-and-chug with this failed BS argument all day.