Islamist movement, invading countries, really?!

So many threads, so much support... For hate? Really... This is going to be a thread of which many will put in one ear and bring out the other, infact, I can guarantee most will do that.

Enough of that let's get on to the facts... YES, I, with all most ability will try to show facts in this thread.

Many questions are being asked about muslims in todays day and age, the one that bugs me the most...

"Why don't they go back to their country if they don't like our laws?!"

Well, if anyone tried to think logically or did some research, it won't be very hard. Trust me, I was like you...


Let's start with illustrations...




Hmm, lets talk about our observations, what do we see hear? Well, from 1991-2000, the immigration surged... Many events were taking place such as the Gulf War which caused mass devestation in Iraq which forced them to look for a different country or in many cases, die, my friend is someone who nearly suffered that fate with his family but came to Canada and he and his family are proving a great asset to Canada just like the majority of muslim immigrants.

2001-2010... Muslim immigrants surged even more due to the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, they were once again forced out due to there home being destroyed and no security, law, or order. They had to leave, not only for there sake or safety, but for there famillies...


Now the second part, why can't they leave there cultrual practices in the old country and not force it there? The reason..? Although many did change rather quickly, some just phycologically can't fast enough, has to be gradual....

To put it simple, it's like the average american women going to the middle east with there fashions and different cultural practices and suddenly have to start being culture perfect with there way of life, and forcing there cultural practices... It's hard, you have to understand it took christians how many years to gain equality and balance? Hundreds of years...

Invading the west, invading there culture with there religion is also comments I see flying loosely... When radical islamists number atleast 5% in a country... Than you should start worrying...! But frankly, there is not even atleast 10% muslims in any non muslim western countries.

You should not start making assumptions without experiencing one on one the actual experiences... I also see many hypocrites who believe that on the T.V, Internet "Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear"... Than when they see the Islam-related news (Must be negative, if it's positive, it doesn't mean anything to you!), they make a thread and start attacking muslims as if they were modern day nazi's.

4% muslims in U.K, 2% in U.S... Hell.. Maybe to you that's allot, but it's still doesn't mean it was unprovoked... They were forced, forced to leave there countries and start a sudden new life, you should have sympathy... Don't forget your government are part of the reason this happened,so before balming anyone, look at the reasons, and blame every singe person responsible.... Not just one minority. Don't be like Nazi's finding a specific group, listening to the countless propoganda against and using it to grow hate against them.

I know I used the term "Nazi" allot, but in no way do I see something that extreme, I am just using an example of what happened in our not so recent history and it can happened again...


So I ask you... Please don't look at part of the problem... Look at the whole thing...


Sincerely,

Daniyal.

reply to post by Daniyal


Sorry, but this thread has done nothing to sway my views on Muslims. Why are they coming to our countries and then refusing to intergrate into our societies. Over there if women don't comply they'd be killed on the spot yet in the white countries Muslims are free to do as they say and please because its their culture. Of course its not the majority that do this but it is still bad to see many Muslims refusing to adapt to a country that they are supposed to call home.

Originally posted by BigBruddah
reply to post by Daniyal

 

Sorry, but this thread has done nothing to sway my views on Muslims. Why are they coming to our countries and then refusing to intergrate into our societies. Over there if women don't comply they'd be killed on the spot yet in the white countries Muslims are free to do as they say and please because its their culture. Of course its not the majority that do this but it is still bad to see many Muslims refusing to adapt to a country that they are supposed to call home.

Thank you for saying this because I felt like saying something similar to the OP but in a more nasty way, so thank you for saving me from doing so.

reply to post by BigBruddah
I agree. If you do not want to integrate into our society, leave our country. Go back home and do your thing there.

i can imagine this thread beaing very debatable....my experience 5 yrs ago i whent to the local kebeb shop about 12am,it was a lovely warm night and i had jeans and a t-shirt on,my shirt had the union jack on it,as i aproached the shop 2 young asian lads (early 20s) came out with there food and as they aproached me one of them said "ENGLAND FU**ING ENGLAND",i ignored it went into the shop got my order and went out..as i came out the same 2 asian lads were sitting in their car and as i passed by they shouted out the window "ALLLLRIIIGHT MATE" in the most stupid put on indian/pakistani accent(i heard them talking in perfect english born accent)any way im annoyed and thought sod it i put my head through the opend passenger window and said "yeh im alright are you,then proceeded home but not b4 standing behind there car and pretended to take a picture of the plate...they were gone in 30 seconds...this is one tiny part of britain and grows worse by the day.....regards dave

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


Did you even bother to read it? They got NO home to go BACK to. Is that more clear? If you call IED's and missiles and tanks your home, than you must be one tough guy.

reply to post by Daniyal


In the UK they are demanding that all women wear burkahs in an area in which Muslims are the majority. They are threatening to kill women who disobey their rotten souls. What is going to happen eventually is that the Muslim with the help of liberals are going to push so far, they end up getting slaughtered.

If Muslims are going to live in the West they have to live as Westerns live and leave people alone. They are not in the hell holes the came from and if they want Mulsim hell they can go back to it.

This is how they gain strength then they use Islam to try and change laws then they will attack. Any muslim that thinks this is a lie. You should really change your faith. Oh wait, thats not allowed...

What the west NEEDS to know

video.google.com...#

reply to post by sara123123


Forgot the part where I said they will gradually? Hell, I am all for forcing them to respect everyone's culture, but they need time... Imagine having your loved one(s) killed, moving to a place that is extremely new to you culturally, they are fighting propaganda, hatred, and other forms of negativity towards them.

You do know how long it took the west to get civilized. don't deny that.

reply to post by 5StarOracle


I can change my faith, and I won't get killed for it, my parents of which my dad is a scholar in Islam said you can change faiths to Christianity, Judaism, etc... As long as a I live a caring and loving life and respect some rules. But me... I want to stay Muslim because I love Islam, it's extremely beautiful(Not saying others aren't). You just gotta do some research but I am not condemning you for it as many people get brainwashed to follow those views against Islam.

reply to post by Daniyal


You go right ahead and condem me your words have no worth. It is Islam which forbids it so dont act all suprised when the mahdi comes to town.

reply to post by 5StarOracle


Uh huh, prove it, that's what ATS is all about right... Prove your words, and I will prove mine and I will disprove yours along with it. Deny Ignorance...

reply to post by BigBruddah

Originally posted by BigBruddah
Over there if women don't comply they'd be killed on the spot

Would they? Really? "Over there"? Over where? Comply to what?

I don't understand your entire post. You seem to imply that your views on muslims hasn't been changed (you still hate them because they refuse to integrate or something?), then to save yourself from criticism you add a line at the end saying "of course it isn't the majority, but many of them do it"?

What does it mean to adapt?
Should they learn the language of the neighbourhood they've moved to (english or spanish, most probably)? I'd say yeah, that'd be a good idea, in fact, it'd probably be best for them, HOWEVER, you do realise that the US doesn't have an national language, right? But still, learning english would probably be for the best.

Should they get to know their neighbours? I'd say yeah, again, it's probably for the best. But again, it certainly isn't necessary. It shouldn't be necessary to be all super-social, and some people just aren't. They aren't being unfriendly, they just don't feel comfortable with meeting so many people regularly. Myself, for example, I spent 5 years in one neighbourhood, and while I'd smile and all whenever I passed my neighbours on the way home, I didn't go out of my way to know them, and they didn't me. And I wasn't some super-evil terrorism-plotting mad hermit for that. I just like to keep to myself. If you make a friend or two out of the neighbours, good for you! Is it necessary? I don't really think so.

Should they start guzzling down beer and joining in for the weekend's pork sausage barbecue? Certainly no reason for it. Why should they compromise on their beliefs?

People seem to forget that the US is an immigration culture, famous for being a "melting pot" and so on. No single immigrant culture (british, irish, spanish, italian, mexican) can claim that theirs is the REAL American culture.

And as for the absurdly racist mantra of "Go back home", in many cases, these immigrants are refugees from parts of the world where the US had been militarily involved, and as a result, the infrastructure (what was left of it) had been totally destroyed- Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, etc. In other cases, sure, they were trying to escape their own repressive regimes. The US government had been "kind enough" to resettle them in the America, but now they have to face hoards of misunderstanding americans yelling stuff like "GO BACK HOME!" because they choose to wear a hijab, so they must be extremist terrorists?

reply to post by sara123123

Originally posted by sara123123
In the UK they are demanding that all women wear burkahs in an area in which Muslims are the majority. They are threatening to kill women who disobey their rotten souls. What is going to happen eventually is that the Muslim with the help of liberals are going to push so far, they end up getting slaughtered.

Who is demanding? Are they some sort of spokesperson for all UK muslims? Are they anything other than a fringe crazy group? Is anyone actually even demanding any such thing?

Some interesting information in comic form

The point everybody is missing here is that muslims from war torn areas should be moving to other islamic countries not to countries where bacon is served for breakfast. I as a nonreligious person find it very distastful that muslims want locals of their new home to adapt to their religion and culture. Ask yourself, why does saudi Arabia not welcome refugees from islamic countries? I personally do feel that it is all a progammed event to achieve certain agenda. How else can one explain that muslim immigrants who make up less than 2% of the population want to impose their wish on their new "home" country?

reply to post by pro-all

Originally posted by pro-all
The point everybody is missing here is that muslims from war torn areas should be moving to other islamic countries not to countries where bacon is served for breakfast. I as a nonreligious person find it very distastful that muslims want locals of their new home to adapt to their religion and culture. Ask yourself, why does saudi Arabia not welcome refugees from islamic countries? I personally do feel that it is all a progammed event to achieve certain agenda. How else can one explain that muslim immigrants who make up less than 2% of the population want to impose their wish on their new "home" country?

Again this vague insinuation of "wanting to change our laws" or "wanting to impose their wish on us". What does it mean? In what sense is this being done?

You find it distasteful that someone would wish to exercise their freedom of choice to NOT choose to have bacon for breakfast? I guess you don't think jews belong in the US either, then? Or some Hindus and Buddhists or Jains? Or even vegans?
Muslims certainly seem fairly boxed in, with no way out. If they get something for breakfast without bacon in it (using your example), then people will look at them angrily and tell them to "GO BACK HOME!" and "Don't you impose your culture on us!". If they decide to go across the street to the newly opened Halal diner (which opened for this very reason), then people will accuse them of segregating themselves, and not integrating, and will begin picketing the diner and telling them "GO BACK HOME!" "Don't impose your culture on us!"

Also, out of curiousity, who is doing this "programming"? You do realise that unlike Christianity (especially catholic Christianity), Islam doesn't have any hierarchy with some sort of "Priest" "Super-Priest" "Pope-Priest" levels. In fact, even at their "Priest" level, the guy has no power over his congregation, and the congregation has no obligation to the priest, except that the priest lead them in prayer.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by pro-all

 

Originally posted by pro-all
The point everybody is missing here is that muslims from war torn areas should be moving to other islamic countries not to countries where bacon is served for breakfast. I as a nonreligious person find it very distastful that muslims want locals of their new home to adapt to their religion and culture. Ask yourself, why does saudi Arabia not welcome refugees from islamic countries? I personally do feel that it is all a progammed event to achieve certain agenda. How else can one explain that muslim immigrants who make up less than 2% of the population want to impose their wish on their new "home" country?

Again this vague insinuation of "wanting to change our laws" or "wanting to impose their wish on us". What does it mean? In what sense is this being done?

You find it distasteful that someone would wish to exercise their freedom of choice to NOT choose to have bacon for breakfast? I guess you don't think jews belong in the US either, then? Or some Hindus and Buddhists or Jains? Or even vegans?
Muslims certainly seem fairly boxed in, with no way out. If they get something for breakfast without bacon in it (using your example), then people will look at them angrily and tell them to "GO BACK HOME!" and "Don't you impose your culture on us!". If they decide to go across the street to the newly opened Halal diner (which opened for this very reason), then people will accuse them of segregating themselves, and not integrating, and will begin picketing the diner and telling them "GO BACK HOME!" "Don't impose your culture on us!"

Also, out of curiousity, who is doing this "programming"? You do realise that unlike Christianity (especially catholic Christianity), Islam doesn't have any hierarchy with some sort of "Priest" "Super-Priest" "Pope-Priest" levels. In fact, even at their "Priest" level, the guy has no power over his congregation, and the congregation has no obligation to the priest, except that the priest lead them in prayer.

edit on 19-4-2011 by babloyi because: (no reason given)

Muslims like you seem conveniently at ease leaving out the belligerent stance of your religion. I have never heard of Hindus or bhuddists wanting to impose their will on others. Have you not seen placards where muslims openly display that Islam will dominate the world? I have mentioned it on other forums and will do so again: For me being religious and extremist is being mentally challenged.These people who weant to fight and kill for their god are simply sick. If you want to know more, islam was never mearnt to be outside of middle east. How else can you travel thousands of miles to perform the Hajj if there were no modern means of transport? Open your eyes a lil bit.

reply to post by pro-all

Originally posted by pro-all
Muslims like you seem conveniently at ease leaving out the belligerent stance of your religion. I have never heard of Hindus or bhuddists wanting to impose their will on others. Have you not seen placards where muslims openly display that Islam will dominate the world? I have mentioned it on other forums and will do so again: For me being religious and extremist is being mentally challenged.These people who weant to fight and kill for their god are simply sick. If you want to know more, islam was never mearnt to be outside of middle east. How else can you travel thousands of miles to perform the Hajj if there were no modern means of transport? Open your eyes a lil bit.

Do you think that you never having heard of Hindus or Buddhists wanting to impose their will on others is because they don't, or because you simply haven't heard of it (because of your uninterest, or uninterest of media, or whatever)? Because just like there is a small minority of muslims who want to "impose their will on others" (although I've not seen any examples provided yet, except an unsubstantiated "all women in the UK wear burkhas" and a "they held up placards saying it"), there are minorities of Hindus and Buddhists too. I guess you've never heard of Burma? Or hindu extremism?

As far as Hajj goes, you realise there was this thing they invented about a century back called an "aeroplane"? And before that, there were ships. And when there was no water inbetween, people walked, or travelled as part of a caravan. Are you seriously suggesting that distance required to travel for Hajj is a reason that Islam is no longer applicable in the world today?
Because honestly, that's a very strange argument.

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by pro-all

 

Originally posted by pro-all
Muslims like you seem conveniently at ease leaving out the belligerent stance of your religion. I have never heard of Hindus or bhuddists wanting to impose their will on others. Have you not seen placards where muslims openly display that Islam will dominate the world? I have mentioned it on other forums and will do so again: For me being religious and extremist is being mentally challenged.These people who weant to fight and kill for their god are simply sick. If you want to know more, islam was never mearnt to be outside of middle east. How else can you travel thousands of miles to perform the Hajj if there were no modern means of transport? Open your eyes a lil bit.

Do you think that you never having heard of Hindus or Buddhists wanting to impose their will on others is because they don't, or because you simply haven't heard of it (because of your uninterest, or uninterest of media, or whatever)? Because just like there is a small minority of muslims who want to "impose their will on others" (although I've not seen any examples provided yet, except an unsubstantiated "all women in the UK wear burkhas" and a "they held up placards saying it"), there are minorities of Hindus and Buddhists too. I guess you've never heard of Burma? Or hindu extremism?

As far as Hajj goes, you realise there was this thing they invented about a century back called an "aeroplane"? And before that, there were ships. And when there was no water inbetween, people walked, or travelled as part of a caravan. Are you seriously suggesting that distance required to travel for Hajj is a reason that Islam is no longer applicable in the world today?
Because honestly, that's a very strange argument.

edit on 19-4-2011 by babloyi because: (no reason given)

I'm not prepared to engage you in circular arguments as it seems you've made up your mind of what to accept. But I'd like to see instances where the two other religions tried forcing outsiders into their fold. How ridiculous you bring Burma into the picture? How many people know of this place? "A small minority", thats always the excuse of muslims when they want to play their game of deceit. But you failed woefully this time. These extreme tendencies in islam are anchored in the Quran. You may have to edit this book. Aeroplane invented a centurty back? Please give me a break. How many centuries have islam existed before the aeroiplane was invented? And ships? Yes ships with sails that took years to make a voyage. Islam was a religion invented for the people in middle east. People living several thousands of miles away had no means ever to come to Mecca. Now with modernity it has metomorphized into a world religion that Allah decreed for all races. Seriously I don't know what goes on in people's head.

reply to post by pro-all

Originally posted by pro-all
I'm not prepared to engage you in circular arguments as it seems you've made up your mind of what to accept.

I could say the same of you.

Originally posted by pro-all
But I'd like to see instances where the two other religions tried forcing outsiders into their fold. How ridiculous you bring Burma into the picture? How many people know of this place?

Depends how ignorant and uneducated they are, and how obsessed their media is with painting it in a bad light.

Originally posted by pro-all
"A small minority", thats always the excuse of muslims when they want to play their game of deceit. But you failed woefully this time. These extreme tendencies in islam are anchored in the Quran.

I'd like to see evidence for that. And it'd be a SPECIAL treat if that "evidence" wasn't a mass copy-paste of a list of cherry-picked, distorted, miscontextualised and mistranslated verses off an islam-hate website. Because those have already been answered to zillions of times on ATS.

Originally posted by pro-all
How many centuries have islam existed before the aeroiplane was invented? And ships? Yes ships with sails that took years to make a voyage. Islam was a religion invented for the people in middle east. People living several thousands of miles away had no means ever to come to Mecca.

I'm not quite sure what exactly you are suggesting here. Do you think Islam never spread beyond the arabian peninsula before the turn of the last century? Do you think that muslims all over the world didn't travel for Hajj every year before the turn of the last century?

What exactly are you arguing about? What exact point are you trying to propagate? I don't understand. Or is it just lashing out at Islam because you don't believe in it?




Actually, forget all that, I think you are right. This DOES seem to be descending into a circular argument. To bring it back on track, let me remind everyone of the OPs main point (as I understand it). World events are conspiring (or have conspired) to cause a certain amount of immigration (a point worthy of discussion..exactly how much, compared to immigration from other countries/religions/cultures) from traditionally muslim countries such as Afghanistan and Iraq, into the US.
There is also a significant backlash from the American public, and to a certain extent, the American government, supposedly towards the "culture" of the immigrants. The OP states that they are adjusting, it just takes time to adjust, and in a spirit of coexistence, suggests that once you get to know them, they are really very nice people, and grouping them all together with the bad apples is a mistake.

And so far the responses here have been "Get lost, we don't want you here"?

reply to post by babloyi


Yes you are right unfortunately, but I won't stop trying to help people learn that there negative dillusions about Islam are a mistake and I will help them. I also do my best to help immigrants integrate and get comfortable with Canadian culture, many immigrants come to my school suprised at the different culture, I show them the perfect ways how they can enjoy it without it getting in the way of there beliefs... Really, they get so happy and proud to be here, they show that to there parent who in turn show that to other immigrants and friends. Islam is not a monster, it's a religion with 1.3 billion people with most just wanting peace and prosperity. I think we can agree with that.

I wan't to bring another point to everyone... Don't treat culture like they are a different species... Honestly... We are all humans, were all suppose to care for each other because our minds enable us to go farther than instincts...