Income Taxes Illegal??

Most people know that the FEDERAL Reserve bank is creating the US dollars. But the truth is that the Federal Reserve is not federal at all, but owned by twelve super-wealthy International Banking families, such as the Rothschild�s and the Rockefellers. This is a well hidden secret, but can even be verified in �Encyclopedia Britannica�, and by the statements in this article, as we shall see. This setup is against the US Constitution, where the government is supposed to create our money (the 16th Amendment), which should be backed up by gold and silver.

The government granted its power to create money to the Fed banks. They create money, then loan it back to the government charging interest. The government levies income taxes to pay the interest on the debt. On this point, it's interesting to note that the Federal Reserve act and the sixteenth amendment, which gave congress the power to collect income taxes, were both passed in 1913. The incredible power of the Fed over the economy is universally admitted. There is no real law that states that Americans must pay Income taxes?

Originally posted by Styxvolt
This setup is against the US Constitution, where the government is supposed to create our money (the 16th Amendment), which should be backed up by gold and silver.

Yes, but that is assuming our government does not make our money. It has never been proven that twelve companies make our money.

I think you boys wound up in the wrong spot. You should take this discussion to government conspiracies, this thread is about secret societies, like the masons or illuminati or fraternies.

Originally posted by dtdfever1
I think you boys wound up in the wrong spot. You should take this discussion to government conspiracies, this thread is about secret societies, like the masons or illuminati or fraternies.

Well, Styxvolt does mention that 12 secret societies control the Federal Reserve.

also the IRS book says that income tax is voluntary!!?? If it is voluntary, then why do we have to pay?

Probably because they have us snowed into thinking that it's required when it's probably not. I say probably because I don't know for sure, but I've got a friend who is pretty well read on that subject. He claims also that there is no law that states that we MUST pay, so he, in turn doesn't. He sub-contracts for a well known retail sales company, and he just doesn't report anything, and seemingly it is overlooked. His father has been doing it for years, and has houses, vehicles, etc. and has not been in any trouble for it. Yet. They claim to be well within their rights. The problem is most people don't know, so the falsehood perpetuates itself through the sheer ignorance of the general public.

As to secret societies running the Fed, I would imagine that is true to some extent, in that the Rothchilds and Rockefellers as mentioned before, probably have their hands very deep in the goings-on of the Fed. This is completely speculation on my part, although it seems I have read something about it. I would imagine that a few if not several officers of the Fed are involved in the Bilderberg group or the Trilateral Commission or both. I think that if there is some "Illuminati" conspiracy or the NWO is for real that the members of said organizations can be expected to be waist-deep in whatever is going on. I haven't researched it too much, but what I have read about the Fed and the IRS made me sick to my stomach. They have developed a system to just make money out of thin air, that's why the cost of everything is going up. More money in circulation means less value per dollar, because they don't have the hard currency (silver/gold) to back up all the worthless paper they keep printing.

I don't know if it is related to a secret society or not, but it is a scary situation nonetheless.

Just my thoughts...

If the government prints the money, then it also needs a way to periodically pull it out of the system. There would be a huge glut of cash stuck in the system without it, and then the value of that cash would diminish as it accumulates.

Sure, you don't have to pay taxes. Bums don't. But if you want to drive down the road forget it, its government funded. Want to use your wireless phone or watch TV, forget it, its government owned airwaves. You pay, if you want to play. Like any good business they will charge you for their services.

Tell me you people have jobs right? I hear the same old thing all the time. Tell you what, start learning to live on the net pay and stop dreaming about the gross pay on your paycheck. And if you still don't think its enough, you know what, get a better job.

OR, how about go to a country where they don't have taxes, but they probably don't have jobs either or a good quality of life.

So, how many deadbeat, I need a free handout from the man, lazy good for nothing communists do we have skulking around these boards?

Originally posted by Styxvolt
Most people know that the FEDERAL Reserve bank is creating the US dollars. But the truth is that the Federal Reserve is not federal at all, but owned by twelve super-wealthy International Banking families, such as the Rothschild�s and the Rockefellers. This is a well hidden secret, but can even be verified in �Encyclopedia Britannica�, and by the statements in this article, as we shall see. This setup is against the US Constitution, where the government is supposed to create our money (the 16th Amendment), which should be backed up by gold and silver.

The government granted its power to create money to the Fed banks. They create money, then loan it back to the government charging interest. The government levies income taxes to pay the interest on the debt. On this point, it's interesting to note that the Federal Reserve act and the sixteenth amendment, which gave congress the power to collect income taxes, were both passed in 1913. The incredible power of the Fed over the economy is universally admitted. There is no real law that states that Americans must pay Income taxes?

The Act that was passed in 1913 was never ratified......we should have
never started paying taxes due to this fact.

[edit on 7/26/2004 by Soul Reaper]

Yeah I have a job, but I also have three other mouths to feed besides my own plus rent, car payment, etc, etc, etc. I pay my taxes and don't complain about it, not so much to use the roads or cell phones or watch TV, just because that's the way it is. If I could put that extra 180 bucks per check in my family's mouths you bet I'd do it. The system is screwed any way you look at it really, but at this point what can you do? At the end of the week I'm still counting change, even though I have a technical and specialized job. So what? Am I a bum or a deadbeat just because I live paycheck to paycheck?

BTW we should really take this discussion elsewhere if we want to continue in the same vein. Unless, of course you would like to discuss the possibility (or probability, depending on how you look at it) of secret societies at work within the Federal Reserve or the IRS.

*edit* Side note: I don't know how it is where you are from, but here we pay a fee to use the road. It's called registration and license plates. 25 bucks in change every year from everyone in the city should cover it, I would think. Not to mention the "universal service charges" on all your utilities including phones - land lines or cell phones. All that is federal taxes for just that purpose. What we are talking about here is what they take out of what you earn with your labor. If you make a living by selling things, you are supposed to pay taxes on that. If you make your money by your own labor, that should not and originally wasn't meant to be taxed as I understand it. Could I be wrong? Of course. If so, would someone be so good as to correct me?

Sorry guys, that was a long side note

[edit on 7/26/04 by The Axeman]

I had also heard and read about this, so I decided to ask my dad. When I asked him if he paid income taxes he told me "yes". Then I asked him if he knew it was "voluntary", and he said "yes". He said that he pays it so they will leave him alone. This is true, because if you don't pay it then the "feds" will call you and all that jazz. I'm not sure what they can do to you, but they will pester you to death.

So does this mean that Al Capone should never have been arrested? I'm screaming Secret Society on this one y'all...

There's no secret society to it, it's a good ole boys network, plain and simple.

The system will beat you everytime unless everyone was politically active and made sure the system worked for everyone like it should. But that would be a full time job that simply would not pay, and therefore its not practical. And the chuckleheads running the show know this.

A penny here, a penny there, they really do have all this figured out. And there is not a thing you can do about it. Why, that would be the equivalent of waltzing into Area 51 and seeing what's in those big buildings without being shot. Ain't gonna happen....

Originally posted by Styxvolt
Most people know that the FEDERAL Reserve bank is creating the US dollars. But the truth is that the Federal Reserve is not federal at all, but owned by twelve super-wealthy International Banking families

Rubbish. Please do some research before posting. Debunking Myths about the Federal Reserve

Thanks HTB that is a wealth of info. Unfortunately I don't have the time right now to sit and read it all, but I assure you I will and I shall return with my comments at that time. Looks like it took alot of time to do such extensive research and is very well presented. Kudos to you.

Well, the taxes are legal, according to our judicial system.

People have tried all sorts of dodges to get out of them. There's a website called "Idiot (sic) Legal Arguments" that documents some of the odd strategies that people have used in attempting to prove that they don't have to pay income tax by a lot of odd things ("that flag has a fringe around it and so it's not a US flag!") -- or that the US government does not otherwise have the right to set certain laws that they object to.

Note: while this page deals specifically with militias (because they are the ones most frequently trying these tactics), it should be noted that other people have used this information with the same lack of success. All the cases cited ended up as a "win" for the government and the person withholding the tax was forced to pay and/or jailed.

www.adl.org... (the index... fascinating stuff)

You'll find all the arguments here, including "the tax is illegal." You can then look up the cases online (if you wish) and see what citations were (findlaw.com is a good source) used and what the government's case was based on.

In many cases, they can't even get a lawyer to represent their side of the case (because the lawyers know that what they're arguing isn't legal and that it's been ruled on many times. It's like trying to argue with a cop with a speed gun and active video that you were NOT going 80 mph and you did NOT run into that car, even though they've got you caught on tape.)

Here's one based on Hawaii's "sovereignity":
www.angelfire.com...

And yes, these fail even when tried by a jury:
caselaw.lp.findlaw.com...

When you own a house, you pay taxes. You pay for certain rights and priveleges (a license fee to drive a car.) If you don't like the taxes, then move to another country and don't pay the US taxes. But if you're going to live here and use our roads and other services, then you really should pony up for your share of it.

P.S... given the direction of the conversation, I'm moving this to the government area. It's drifted away from "secret societies" into other arenas. (this is not a criticism of the idea or the conversation; simply moving it to an area where it fits better.)

Originally posted by Byrd
When you own a house, you pay taxes. You pay for certain rights and priveleges (a license fee to drive a car.) If you don't like the taxes, then move to another country and don't pay the US taxes. But if you're going to live here and use our roads and other services, then you really should pony up for your share of it.

But the point I am trying to make (not that it is illegal, just wrong) is that all those things have taxes that we pay for them anyway! You pay a tax on your personal property, be it cars, houses boats, and for what? The priveledge to own something? I completely understand liscense fees and all that, somebody's gotta pay to keep the roads in shape. The thing that urks me is income taxes and property taxes. I can do sales tax, fuel tax, taxes added to utility bills for (as I stated earlier) "universal service fees", and the like, but I don't like having to shell out 25% of my check to income taxes! That my friends whether legal or not is just wrong!

If I go down a construction site and break my back for 8 hrs a day, why in the (expletive deleted) do I have to pay uncle sam 25% of what I earn? Just for the right to bust my arse? I don't care who you are that ain't right! I already paid my tax to use the road to get there, not to mention the tax I paid for the right to own a vehicle, plus the tax I paid on the fuel to get there, and the list goes on and on. If you figure it up and add all the sales tax and fuel tax and all the other taxes you pay in a year, I bet it would come up to 50-65% of your total income for the year. I'm sorry to rant, I just think the system sucks. They may have laws that say they can take my money, but that doesn't mean I have to shut up and like it. Just my opinion.