Does the TEA party know what the actual budget cuts were yet?

Originally posted by getreadyalready
The short answer is no. But, I also do not want my children and grand-children to allow the continual sliding and erosion of their individual rights. This country is drastically different, in a worse way, than the country my grand-parents lived in and envisioned for the future. So, while I hope my children can live a better lifestyle than I have lived, I also hope they are not willing to sacrifice their liberties for it. I hope they are at least "willing" to make the hard sacrifice for the greater good.

Sorry for the late reply but this thread got buried and I never realised you came back. I understand and agree with the above but I do not see how any of that applies to anything coming from the TEA party (planned parenthood???) or the Ryan budget plan that provides tax cuts for the already wealthy while slashing many of the programs that help people move up through the social classes. It only leads to further class stratification which I suppose is one type of freedom but I value the freedom to have opportunities a little more that the freedom to not have 47 cents a year go to poor women getting PAP tests.

My answer to this one and many of the other questions will be almost the same thing. I can totally get on board with a plan that delays the tax cuts, and still makes deep cuts in spending. I just haven't seen that plan. For all the criticism the Tea Party is taking, at least they are active. Show me an aggressive plan that balances the budget in 5 years and I'll support it!

See this is where you confuse me. Just because you have not seen a plan that is perfect, you are willing to like the one that offers so many tax cuts in a plan to balance the budget in 30 years? And you will only accept an alternative that beats that deadline by 25 years? I guess I do not see why anyone that claims to be of what the TEA party is supposed to be for would just accept the one option handed to them because it is the only option handed to them. Isn't that highly antithetical to the movement? "Throw the bums out! No more corporate cronyism! Listen to the people!" The people do not want tax cuts for the rich and the people do not want to lose medicare. The TEA party guys in Washington are only offering that and you suggest it is ok because well, it is all you have?

Obama has some good ideas too! Remove the loopholes, remove the limits on Social Security contribution, get rid of the tax cuts for the rich and the loopholes for the corporations. Ease the restrictions on foreign earned investments, so that corporations can bring their money back to the states. BUT, do it along with major spending cuts. I'd be happy to support a plan that incorporated the most aggressive parts of each side! I have a feeling, we will get the exact opposite. We will probably get a plan that incorporates the least aggressive parts of each side, and that will just be another failing plan.

See, I agree with what you just wrote 100000000% and that is what confuses me. I see none of that in the Ryan plan and much less I find it hard to swallow it because it is the only option out there. We should be demanding what we want. You and I both want what you just wrote above. So, is the point of the TEA party to make that heard and get that to happen or just accept what they decide to give us?

I am not at all against spending cuts. I just do not understand the tax cuts. They have never proven to create the jobs they promised, in fact the exact opposite. Tax cuts only further damage the revenue stream and anyone claiming fiscal responsibility should first and formost be against cutting off the money coming in before deciding what else not to buy. Spending cuts are fine when they make sense but in correlation the the tax cuts, they only serve to further funnel money from one class to another which is my idea of the exact opposite of freedom and American Capitalism.

That is easy to say. I would love to say the same thing, but what is your solution then? Do we refuse to vote? Do we write letters? Talk to the press? Run for an office?

Why not?

I mean really nobody cares what we refuse to settle for. The government is so disconnected from the people that it is worthless to bluster and blow and stomp our feet, because they just don't care. The corporations will still finance their campaign, and someone will still get elected and play the same game.

This is where you lose me again. You say you are a TEA party guy. The TEA party keeps bragging about how they got their people in office and have a voice in Washington. Now you are just throwing up your hands and calling it all off? Does that mean you no longer feel allegiance to any of the TEA party candidates that won? Does this mean the movement is pointless? I mean, if you feel no one cares what you have to say, why bother calling yourself part of the TEA party then? What is the party all about if no one is listening?

So, back to my confederacy statement, or supporting the imperfect Tea Party and using it as a baby step. Unless you have a better plan that will be more effective, then I am all ears.

Is there something wrong with the idea above that we both agree on?

Pretty much the same as above. At least the Tea Party is "active" and at least they are not supporting the status quo.

You just said there was no point because no one was listening.

We need radical changes, and we need them quickly. You may not think the Tea Party is the majority, but I think you are wrong.

How so? They won a slim miniority of elections and polls indicate they make up no higher than around 33% of respondents. Can you show something different?

I think the vast, silent "majority" is busy working in rural America, and busy working the graveyard shifts and the factories in the cities, and I think their views are not out in the open. Their views are ignored by the polls, because they don't bother answering the polls. Their views are ignored by the politicians, because they are not writing letters or going to rallies, because they are too busy scraping to get by. I think the Tea Party is speaking for those people. At least I hope that is what is going on. If the big money GOP continues to hijack the coattails of the Tea Party, then it is all a wasted effort.

I think you are assuming alot. Do you suppose I do not work for a living? Do you suppose I am some rich liberal elitist with nothing but time to worry about birthers? It would lead me to wonder then who you are and why you have this free time. Sorry but I see nothing in the above but hopeful assumptions and I find it hard to base any real decisions on what other peopel hope might be true. You see how I can say the exact opposite thing as you and then where are we?

As in all my responses, show me a better, more immediate, more efficient plan, and I will support it!

I think we both just agreed on one in this post. So how about getting that heard by Ryan and his minions?

reply to post by Sinnthia


See, I don't think we agreed on one plan. I think we agreed on the better parts of Obama's plan, but that is only half the story on his plan. The other half is to continue spending to try to bolster the economy and protect failing business plans.

What I COULD agree on, would be Obama's tax plan (temporarily), and the Ryan spending cuts plan combined. That would make significant progress possible.

And I wasn't hypothetically jumping from a 30 year balance budget to a 5 year balance budget, that was just an example of a very aggressive estimate that I could support. If someone shows me a great 10 year or 20 year plan, that doesn't burden me further with taxes, and that doesn't give my money away to shoddy business practices or lazy freeloaders, and I will support it.

And, the "silent majority" I was talking about doesn't mean I am assuming anything about you. You and I might be exactly the same. We are both hard workers that are expecting a lot from our government for what we pay in. BUT, there are a whole lot of people out there, that are also hard working, but they don't get out to Tea Party events, they are not writing letters, they might not even be watching the news. They are just scrapping and scraping to try and survive and provide for their families. THOSE ARE THE MAJORITY!! Those are the people that the pollsters ignore, and the politicians ignore, and the pundits ignore. Those are the people that would support a fair tax, or a flat tax, or a sales tax. Those are the people that really depend on a fix for Social Security, and those are the people that need a cut in government spending.

If we came up with the proper plan, and the proper platform, it could satisfy you and I both, and it would thrill that silent majority. Lets make the plan!!

My biggest fear is that all of the "compromise" from both sides will eliminate the best parts of each plan, and we will be left with the worst parts of each plan. I'm afraid Obama and the Dems will cave on their tax plan, and I'm afraid the Tea Party Reps will cave on too many of their spending cuts. We will be left with a hollow shell of a plan, call it progress, everyone will pat themselves on the back for reaching across the aisle, and all of us hard workers will continue to suffer.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

See, I don't think we agreed on one plan. I think we agreed on the better parts of Obama's plan, but that is only half the story on his plan. The other half is to continue spending to try to bolster the economy and protect failing business plans.

I guess that is what I was agreeing with you on. There is some good in one and some in the other and the ones you picked out seemed ok with me. I am sorry if that was not more clear.

What I COULD agree on, would be Obama's tax plan (temporarily), and the Ryan spending cuts plan combined. That would make significant progress possible.

That was exactly what I was referring to.

And I wasn't hypothetically jumping from a 30 year balance budget to a 5 year balance budget, that was just an example of a very aggressive estimate that I could support. If someone shows me a great 10 year or 20 year plan, that doesn't burden me further with taxes, and that doesn't give my money away to shoddy business practices or lazy freeloaders, and I will support it.

I guess I focused on the 5 year ideal compared to the propsed Ryan 30 year reality because it seems that we often forsake the good for the perfect and I just feel that as the greatest country in the world, we can do better than that.

And, the "silent majority" I was talking about doesn't mean I am assuming anything about you. You and I might be exactly the same. We are both hard workers that are expecting a lot from our government for what we pay in. BUT, there are a whole lot of people out there, that are also hard working, but they don't get out to Tea Party events, they are not writing letters, they might not even be watching the news. They are just scrapping and scraping to try and survive and provide for their families. THOSE ARE THE MAJORITY!! Those are the people that the pollsters ignore, and the politicians ignore, and the pundits ignore. Those are the people that would support a fair tax, or a flat tax, or a sales tax. Those are the people that really depend on a fix for Social Security, and those are the people that need a cut in government spending.

I agree with you to a point. See, I feel like I know a lot of these people. These people that never really get active about anything and even voting kind of seems like a chore. But, they have jobs that somehow afford them 8 hours of right wing AM radio indoctrination. So I hear them say passionately how they feel about things then tell me that if they do vote, they will vote for the guy who anyone but Rush Limbaugh will tell them is going to work against people just like them, people too busy trying to feed their familes to look into anything on any real level. These people scare me. I am not saying they would be perfect if they listened to progressive radio at work either but these are the people that never go to rallies or get involved in any meaningful way but when they do at least vote, they vote for the guy that seemed the most pissed off. They scare me.

If we came up with the proper plan, and the proper platform, it could satisfy you and I both, and it would thrill that silent majority. Lets make the plan!!

I am all for it. I see no reason this has to be a the TEA party refuses to go along with X unless the only plan passed is that specific one that only they (the minority) want. I really just want compromise and I would prefer it were written up by people that work for a living and pay at least 35% back in taxes as opposed to those who get $100,000 write off for buying a yaght (sp?) or inherit tax free millions from grandpa to invest overseas and then again reap taxless gains on it. I am sure most TEA party folks on the surface can agree to some of that.

My biggest fear is that all of the "compromise" from both sides will eliminate the best parts of each plan, and we will be left with the worst parts of each plan. I'm afraid Obama and the Dems will cave on their tax plan, and I'm afraid the Tea Party Reps will cave on too many of their spending cuts. We will be left with a hollow shell of a plan, call it progress, everyone will pat themselves on the back for reaching across the aisle, and all of us hard workers will continue to suffer.

And we will be left with something akin to a HCR reform that is pretty much the opposite of what Obama promised and his voters supported yet still pisses off the Republicans as well I am sure.

See, I bet we differ on a great many number of things and can still find plenty of common ground.