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Our Universe, in all its majesty and grandeur (which, of course, includes ALL sentience, ALL self-awareness) is, somehow, considered by some to be NOT "conscious" or, in other words, not [Individually or Collectively] aware of Itself.
This premise is somewhat akin to saying "Life and Consciousness are both exceedingly rare in this universe; thusly, the vast majority of the universe is dead – as We define dead. That Consciousness Itself is, basically, nothing more than a kind of interesting quirk; a peculiar oddity to be found in scattered recesses of a [generally] stillborn natural occurrence we refer to as the universe.” Consciousness in our Universe is, to some, sort of like living fleas sitting on a dead dog, wondering what to do next…
We seem to use rather arbitrary definitions of "life" that We ourselves contrive, as We then blithely categorize and contextualize this and that as being "alive" or “not really”. Put another way, We “choose” defining characteristics of what We view as being “living”, that We assume to reflect life; and We then seek out those very same qualities in “things” which surround us. Of course, We can say something to the effect that “We are merely discovering rules and laws which are already in place; and that’s all We are doing.”
What We (or they – take your pick) are apparently unaware of (intentionally or otherwise) is that We create the “rules” that We, then, discover; that We create those “laws” along with everything else that We then “discern” as being already there … this premise being valid DESPITE evidence of universal awareness (free yourself of those “billiard balls” and think Quantum here). We create Everything - up to and including ourselves (or WEselves – again, take your pick and be happy) as well as our ever-present, ever-changing and ever-creative points of view; for it’s our very points of view which register existence Itself.
But does the perceptible Universe exist in an “objective” sense if it’s not perceived to do so?
To put all this another way (for the love of God – say it isn’t so!), without some sort of “counter” to register the existence of the so-called “objective reality”, there can be NO reality. The counter being referred to here, which you have probably guessed by now, is the “Human Perspective”. While there is the “Raccoon Perspective”, the “Starfish Perspective”, the “Gnat Opinionator”, the “Stinkbug Take”, the “Oak Tree Retrospective”, the “Dung Beetle Overview” and on and on, it is The Human Perspective which stands alone and is, quite literally, subjectivity and objectivity personified*.
It is the subjective facet (or “tool” – for me, a to-ma-to/to-mah-to kind of thing) to the human perspective which registers rocks and trees, baby seals and popsicles and shoe horns and planets and stars. The subjective facet to the human perspective also registers the richness in the aroma of freshly-brewed coffee as well as the delicateness displayed by the fragrance of honeysuckle as it wafts on the moisture-laden air of a spring morning. Additionally, the subjective facet to the human perspective perpetually reminds us of the importance of Love – the Love of Life, the Love of Individuals for each other and, of course, our Love for Everything of which We are part.
Another [integral] portion of, or facet to, the human perspective is the compliment to the subjective, which is, of course, the “objective” facet. It is this regimented “tool” of the human perspective which categorizes and classifies. It is this facet to the human perspective which also determines the perceived order of this “reality”; and because this “reality” seems to be one that is comprised of separateness, of “things”, the objective facet provides the very basis for an “orderly and sane exploration” of what we refer to as physical existence. In short, the objective tool and the subjective tool work in a complimentary fashion in order to promote a “balanced” Human Perspective overview of Individual existence while embroiled within this kind of “reality”.
Within this perceived “order of things”, however, the objective portion of the human perspective seems [for some] to have become quite self-important; a mere facet of the human perspective which has evolved over the centuries to actually “believe” in its own separateness, and that reality can and does exist with or without the subjective OR the objective – although this belief is seemingly and inexorably mired in “objective” reasoning; “objective” belief.
The objective “tool” is, to my way of thinking, in many instances viewing its own reflection in a vein similar to the [assumed] star of the team picturing him/her/itself as being the team’s entirety – with any and all other contributions to the overall perspective being relegated to either insignificance or irrelevance. While it is inarguably true that the objective facet to the Human Perspective is integral in significance (insofar as its contribution to the [whole] Individual picture is concerned) and equivalent to all other facets of the perspective in importance, it is not MORE than any other “tool” – except, of course, within the [rather artificial] framework of its own assumed vision of itself; its own “belief”. It seems the objective facet to the Human Perspective quite often assumes that the “objective” exists without being created by the “objective tool” which spawns it.
Originally posted by sirnex
reply to post by Mindpeace
What We (or they – take your pick) are apparently unaware of (intentionally or otherwise) is that We create the “rules” that We, then, discover; that We create those “laws” along with everything else that We then “discern” as being already there … this premise being valid DESPITE evidence of universal awareness (free yourself of those “billiard balls” and think Quantum here). We create Everything - up to and including ourselves (or WEselves – again, take your pick and be happy) as well as our ever-present, ever-changing and ever-creative points of view; for it’s our very points of view which register existence Itself.
We don't create the rules and laws. We create the abstract meanings behind physical processes. We define an observable process as a law because of our language. We could call gravity a tree instead if that suits you, point is the physical process of gravity, be it called gravity or tree will still have a physical affect that causes you to fall flat on your butt.
We do, if we have non of our 5 senses nothing would exist for you, we are merely a projection of these sense.
We have the power to manipulate gravity and all the sorts, we just have to create an illusion within this illusion and wala. We are multi-dimensional beings we create a parallel universe every time we breath and move, I am the god of this universe and your the god of your own universe. If you think you can and will accomplish something then you will but however if you don't and doubt your self then the chance of you accomplishing something will have a probability of 50%
Nor does quantum mechanics say anything about human consciousness creating reality. Quantum physics has nothing to do with the creation of reality by any means at all. What it does deal with is the inner workings of the subatomic level of reality. What it has no bearing on is the macroscopic level of reality where classical physics still and does work.
If you don't quantum mechanics mix up with our knowledge of the sub-consciousness, that our bodies are "quantumly" processing things. We are yet to discover more and this is a matter of time.
But does the perceptible Universe exist in an “objective” sense if it’s not perceived to do so?
Considering our species is roughly two million years old, yes... it still exists as an objective reality.
Considering that we find artefacts linked to being made by a civilisation 285million years ago we are quite old as species, remember recorded history only started 10000 years ago.
To put all this another way (for the love of God – say it isn’t so!), without some sort of “counter” to register the existence of the so-called “objective reality”, there can be NO reality. The counter being referred to here, which you have probably guessed by now, is the “Human Perspective”. While there is the “Raccoon Perspective”, the “Starfish Perspective”, the “Gnat Opinionator”, the “Stinkbug Take”, the “Oak Tree Retrospective”, the “Dung Beetle Overview” and on and on, it is The Human Perspective which stands alone and is, quite literally, subjectivity and objectivity personified*.
Utter nonsense. Why would human consciousness be held as more important that any other living thing in the entire universe? Are you a narcissist?
Because we are the gods of this universe, we are more than just memories and experiences we are already immortal, I might of actually died in another universe by now but Im still alive today, but the fact is by calling "death!" the end is limiting our precipitation that we are actually an infinite being.
Another [integral] portion of, or facet to, the human perspective is the compliment to the subjective, which is, of course, the “objective” facet. It is this regimented “tool” of the human perspective which categorizes and classifies. It is this facet to the human perspective which also determines the perceived order of this “reality”; and because this “reality” seems to be one that is comprised of separateness, of “things”, the objective facet provides the very basis for an “orderly and sane exploration” of what we refer to as physical existence. In short, the objective tool and the subjective tool work in a complimentary fashion in order to promote a “balanced” Human Perspective overview of Individual existence while embroiled within this kind of “reality”.
Within this perceived “order of things”, however, the objective portion of the human perspective seems [for some] to have become quite self-important; a mere facet of the human perspective which has evolved over the centuries to actually “believe” in its own separateness, and that reality can and does exist with or without the subjective OR the objective – although this belief is seemingly and inexorably mired in “objective” reasoning; “objective” belief.
The reason objective reality is so important is because reality IS objective. It actually really does exist regardless of our own existence. You can't even view reality without your five sensory organs. Any one of those organs fails and you lose a vast amount of information about reality. If you lose your eyesight, all visual aspects of reality disappear, but regardless of that subjective trait, you will still die if hit by a car even if you can't see it.
Reality is not subjective or created by our perception of it.
But this is not reality as you say, we are all in our own illusion, I can basically kill anyone by saying "he doesn't exist or he died" but that's just me.
edit on 11-4-2011 by foreshadower99 because: (no reason given)