Jefferson's answer to those who doubt God, due to religion..

"But I have ever thought religion a concern purely between our God and our consciences, for which we were accountable to him, and not to the priests. I never told my own religion, nor scrutinized that of another. I never attempted to make a convert, nor wished to change another's creed. I have ever judged of the religion of others by their lives, For it is in our lives, and not from our words, that our religion must be read. By the same test the world must judge me. But this does not satisfy the priesthood. They must have a positive, a declared assent to all their interested absurdities. My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest. The artificial structures they have built on the purest of all moral systems, for the purpose of deriving from it pence and power, revolts those who think for themselves, and who read in that system only what is really there."
- Thomas Jefferson

Screw religion, I live for the relationship with God. Christianity has been misconstrued so badly because of human flaw, not because of God. He didn't order all the deaths christianity has caused. The priests and intolerant humans caused that. " My opinion is that there would never have been an infidel, if there had never been a priest.". It's only about you, and your relationship with God, nothing else. Never try to tell others their beliefs are wrong, never try to convert them, keep your beliefs to yourself unless others are interested. "I never told my own religion, nor scrutinized that of another. I never attempted to make a convert, nor wished to change another's creed. I have ever judged of the religion of others by their lives, For it is in our lives, and not from our words, that our religion must be read."

I know this is not going to do a thing to change minds, people have their own preconceived notions...and will continue with the attack on Jesus. But if one would just look at the fact that all he teaches us is to help, hope, care, learn, pray and love.

Where is the problem with that? Even if i'm totally wrong, I don't care. At least I'll know while I was here I always tried to do those 6 things, and that's what all people should do for this world during our short stay here..

It is not the church, nor the priests as much as it is temptation and evil. You are never supposed to talk ill of priests as said by mary. They may have flaws and may be sinners because of temptation, but they are just men. They are like you and i and interpret things differently. They are there because the have a more evolved and experienced interpretation of God than many others. If you do not have love for a Priest, then you do not have love for Jesus. You are supposed to hate the sin and love the sinner. Never completely follow one persons interpretation, take their opinion as another perspective and you can learn and build off of it. We are only Human. Blessed are those who hear the Word of God and obey it.

One of the reasons I love the Gospel of Thomas is because it shows Jesus in a more sharp way and probably unaltered (because we know some parts of the Bible have been changed or left out, sadly). Anyway I'd like to leave a couple quotes here that's echoed by other apostles as well (although somewhat differently) that has to do with the individual:

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

107. Jesus said, "The (Father's) kingdom is like a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine and looked for the one until he found it. After he had toiled, he said to the sheep, 'I love you more than the ninety-nine.'"

Don't blame all churches or priests though. While some are corrupt, not all are.

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
One of the reasons I love the Gospel of Thomas is because it shows Jesus in a more sharp way and probably unaltered (because we know some parts of the Bible have been changed or left out, sadly). Anyway I'd like to leave a couple quotes here that's echoed by other apostles as well (although somewhat differently) that has to do with the individual:

3. Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you live in poverty, and you are the poverty."

107. Jesus said, "The (Father's) kingdom is like a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine and looked for the one until he found it. After he had toiled, he said to the sheep, 'I love you more than the ninety-nine.'"

Don't blame all churches or priests though. While some are corrupt, not all are.

edit on 2/4/11 by AdamsMurmur because: (no reason given)

Can you tell me what those verses mean to you in your own words?



Good post btw

Great quote and a great Virginian.


People get tripped up on the word "God." It means so many different things right off the bat, it's hard to tell what someone will assume you're thinking of when you even mention the word to them. It could be a vision like Zeus sitting on a throne, an incorporeal spirit or the entirety of the universe, or many other definitions.

Taoism (a philosophy, not a religion) and Zen Buddhism (arguably likewise) put an emphasis on learning to see past words. In that respect, Asian cultures have us beat.

reply to post by Akragon


The first one to me means not to be fooled by others or follow them blindly because you think it will lead you to salvation. Instead, look within yourself to find salvation, and it will radiate from you as light radiates from the Sun. When he speaks of looking up to the sky or down to the sea when someone exclaims to look in those directions, he's saying that the birds and the fish will be ahead of you, like you're wasting your time. Instead, look within!

The second is somewhat similar. The one sheep who went astray is probably the one who has the bravery to find God on his own and through his own volition, and not just do it because he was taught to. When you look at many people today who call themselves Christian or whatever religion they are, they don't really follow the teachings but still think that going to church every Sunday (or Friday or Saturday depending if you're Jew or Muslim) is enough. To me that seems rather selfish because they do it as a way to pat themselves on the back or it's because their parents want them to go. Seems rather lackluster no? I've seen a lot of people and stories of people who are all nice and everything while in their temples, but once they get out they are basically the same as everyone else. What's the point if you don't practice outside of that place? It's the outside, the everyday, that really matters. And if you need to break off to find the answers to your questions, then so be it! I'm sure God will love you for it as long as you keep love in your heart and stay connected to him. Stray too far though and you may find yourself in the company of wolves.

reply to post by AdamsMurmur


Thank you... i love to hear different perspectives