Comet Elenin size, distance and scale explained.

Ok, when I put in dec. 10 2010 in this fourmilab software I get a different sky than Alf posted.

www.fourmilab.ch...

Hope this link above works right.

And is it me or is there no LEO constellation above New Mexico on this snapshot?

Sky above 35°5'N 106°39'3"W at Fri 2010 Dec 10 15:27 UTC (I set this for the sky above Albuquerque, NM.

I used Stellarium to verify that Leo was above the horizon at 4AM.

reply to post by stereologist


Can you post a snapshot of that?
THanks.

Ok, just want to know definitively if this was visible above New Mexico Dec. 10 2010.


Leonid Elenin (Lyubertsy, Russia) reports his discovery of a
comet on four 240-s unfiltered CCD exposures taken remotely with a
0.45-m f/2.8 astrograph at the ISON-NM observatory near Mayhill,
NM, USA, on Dec. 10.435 UT (discovery observation tabulted below).

So is Leo visible from NM at 10.435 UT?

:

reply to post by SunnyDee


This includes the entire window so that you can see the program, location and time as well as the constellation.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e8d4eb807f5d.jpg[/atsimg]

Oops. I can see that the image has been clipped. The date and time shown in the image is:

2010-12-10 2:06:09

Which means that the constellation is visible by 2AM and is well above the horizon by 4AM local time.

reply to post by SunnyDee


That's an easy problem to figure out. I'll let you do that,

Here is what you do to change universal time to local time.
1. Count how many time zones away the destination is from the "0" place.
2. Since this is towards the setting sun this is earlier so subtract the time zone count.

Had this been towards the home town of the astronomer it would have been heading East towards the rising sun and time would be added to obtain the local time.

At New Mexico Skies' location, Elenin would have risen about 08:00 UTC (2:00 AM local time) on December 10th, 2010. Sun rise wan't until about 14:00 UTC (8:00 AM local time). The Astronomical Telegram detailing Elenin's discovery puts the time of imaging at 2010 UT Dec. 10.41707 (10:00:35 UTC, 4:00:35 AM local time).

reply to post by stereologist


As I said in one of the OTHER Elenin threads (just how many are there?), here is a simulation of what would have happened 3 years ago to Saturn's orbit if it was a 0.05 Solar Mass brown dwarf. I know for a fact that it didn't happen, because my telescope still shows Saturn to be Exactly where it is supposed to be.

reply to post by Hellhound604


Well done. Thanks for showing how you can't "sneak" up on the planets and not affect them.

Sometimes I get the feeling that people think that the planets travel on a track like a roller coaster and are not subject to the forces that act on them.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by Hellhound604

 

Well done. Thanks for showing how you can't "sneak" up on the planets and not affect them.

Sometimes I get the feeling that people think that the planets travel on a track like a roller coaster and are not subject to the forces that act on them.

I never thought that Saturn's pertubation with the incoming brown dwarf would be so marked, and Jupiter's on the outgoing, lol... Makes me sort of glad that Elenin ISN'T a brown dwarf.... btw. Leonid Elenin made the video, to disprove the bunk, but before I get jumped upon by people saying I fell for it, I did the same simulation on my own orbital mechanics program, and the results are similar, so IF Elenin was really a brown dwarf, we would have seen it at least 3 years ago by the effect on Saturn's orbit.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by NyxOne

 

That's hilarious!

I went to the IMDB to check out this movie. www.imdb.com...
Here is the synopsis for the movie:

Two sisters find their relationship challenged as a nearby planet threatens to collide into the Earth.

Does that sound like a bad movie or what?

it sounded like a bad movie...but ended up to be pretty darn good(i liked it).and imdb rated it an 8...see how wrong you were?....ironic isn't it?

reply to post by Noobastronomer


It still sounds like a bad movie. I don't have any problem checking out the movie to see if the movie is better or worse than the description.

Wrong. No. You are attempting to compare apples and oranges, the description with the movie itself. You are wrong to make such a comparison and pass it off as meaningful.

reply to post by stereologist

Originally posted by stereologist
Your claim here is that nothing can be known until after it happens. That simply isn't true. Take Elenin. It is a small object. It will not come particularly close to the Earth. Having observed many comets and several this year even astronomers know with great certainty that the effects of the comet on the Earth are small to nonexistent. To argue that understanding the effects of the comet is not known is just arguing that you do not know. Just because you do not understand these things does not mean that others do not.

No, I specifically said fighting over the topic is nonsense, which it is lol Fighting's not the same as calmly debating, though. I was alluding to the CAPS and the insults on the previous pages. What I meant was that people will believe whatever they're going to believe. Usually doesn't matter how much evidence of anything you give a person.


For example, I see a video like the above and I think it's enough to sit up and pay attention to as I'm familiar with the source (who also began as a skeptic), find it at least the little bit reputable and know he has resources I don't, at the moment, have. Whereas others may consider the entire video hogwash, as is their prerogative.

Originally posted by stereologist
This continues to show that you have limited information about the comet and even go on to claim something vague about the 'elite'. There are plenty of these 'elite'. They are people with a bit more interest in the cosmos than you and are called amateur astronomers. From their backyards all across the globe they can see that this object is taking the orbit predicted by professional astronomers. They know that this comet is not coming close to the Earth and will have a marginal effect on the planet. Outside of maybe a few meteors it has no measurable effect.

But you don't know anything about me though; you don't know why I said that and you don't know who I know, what my connections are, if I own or have owned telescope or if I'm an amateur astronomer myself. I go back to my first statement though - it just seemed counter-productive for those preparing to go back and forth and back and forth when so many will believe as they wish.

By limited amount of information I mean unless you plan on visiting it yourself before it comes anywhere near here (do you?), then you're seeing whatever anyone else with a telescope is seeing. What more past that is there to see? lol

To each their own. It's nothing I see reason to debate about at least. But I really do hope those worried prepare instead of wasting their time trying convincing others this late in the year, especially. In fact, I'd advise they focused more so on preparing for something. Just my two cents.

But yeah... sorry to answering this now Like I said, I don't come on here much anymore.
Since I've only got limited info, I'm going to eject myself from the convo and watch from now on.
Take care.

Originally posted by Debunker75

For example, I see a video like the above and I think it's enough to sit up and pay attention to as I'm familiar with the source (who also began as a skeptic), find it at least the little bit reputable and know he has resources I don't, at the moment, have. Whereas others may consider the entire video hogwash, as is their prerogative.

Yeah, it's hogwash. The object that shows up in the infrared layer in Google Earth is CW Leonis, a dying star about 400 light years distant that is one of the brightest infrared sources outside out solar system. Also, the infrared layer in Google Earth comes from the Infrared Astronomical Satellite survey conducted in 1985. It's not anywhere close to a "live" view.

Originally posted by badgerman24
Very interesting. I am kinda thinking that it won't end all life as we know it but if it were to be off and hit earth then it could cause alot of damage! imagine 4km hitting NYC it would kill 1,000s if not more. I like the pictures that show it to scale though. Nice find.

If it hit the ocean it would kill even more

I hope this will answer any lingering questions about Elenin's mass:

Darn you OP! Now Im going to have to find a different hypothetically-possible-extinction-event to waste my time reading about... until you debunk that one too

People from both sides need to stop assuming that what they believe is correct. The arguments seen are simply gobsmacking, both sides criticise the other, bashing arguments they claim are 'based on nothing' whilst drawing their own rebuttal similarly 'based on nothing'.

Our universe is one big mess of unknowns, and trying to create order from it is a futile task.

Lets say you do manage to out and out prove that a comet is going to destroy all humanity.

Great.

Now what?

When (and that is not me saying I believe a comet will hit, nor for that matter that it wont) that comet hits what would you rather look back on before you are burnt to a crisp, a life well spent and memories formed with loved ones?

Or would you prefer to look back on hours upon hours spent arguing online?

reply to post by drewseph


Are you saying that you did not understand the discussion about gravity and the effects on the other objects in the solar system?

Our universe is one big mess of unknowns, and trying to create order from it is a futile task.

That is your position which any astronomer would find a very faulty argument. Maybe it is a futile task for you. Others are able to make sense of the universe they see about them.

Even if a comet were to hit the Earth it is unlikely to be an ELE.