SETI is Backwards - Don't you see?

Sorry if this has been posted already. I looked for it and couldn't find any reference.

Basically SETI is looking for patterns in the electromagnetic waves which are passing Earth. Right?

Natural radiation will be random, which will give it around a 3% repeatable pattern on average.

So if you get a signal with a 15% pattern over a reasonable period of time then you can assume this is a real alien signal, right?

But any alien civilization with even a tiny degree of technology uses compression. They compress their files. They compress their data. We do it. Analog TV and radio is becoming a thing of the past already and we've only managed to fly to the moon. There's only a few year gap where a civilization invents the radio but not yet compression, and a civilization like this is not very advanced (since compression algorithms are not that complicated.)

So the aliens will of course have very good compression software. In which case there will be exactly 0% patterns in their transmissions. Literally 0% because compression software works by removing patterns.

So instead of looking for patterns, SETI should be looking for NO PATTERNS.

not sure i follow your pattern here but good post

hi i dont believe a word seti says

to think advanced ets wud use radio technology is laughable



they are a government puppet just like nasa

alien civilizations with technology as advanced or more advanced than us would also be sending signals to look for life, there is no chance they would mute all signals if they were as advanced as us humans.

Then there would be no way to discern the radio noise from stars and various other natural phenomenon in space. You are basically saying there is no way to pick up and then interpret any foreign sentient radio signals. Besides that, with the technology were working on today, soon radio signals will be a thing of the past.

Scientists Measure Communication Between Quantum Intangled Atoms

Who's to say we even know how they communicate? They might not even use radio or other forms we search for. It's all speculation on SETI's behalf. I never thought sending out messages in space was a good idea anyways. You never know who's gonna pick up on the other end. We might be calling out to our extinction.

reply to post by TheLieWeLive


omg i know this is off topic but your avatar is the funniest Ive ever seen lol!! brown dwarf star... omg....


as for the OP. SETI was a good idea back in carl sagans time, but it hasnt been updated too much. and its also privately funded.

Originally posted by sign00
Sorry if this has been posted already. I looked for it and couldn't find any reference.

Basically SETI is looking for patterns in the electromagnetic waves which are passing Earth. Right?

Natural radiation will be random, which will give it around a 3% repeatable pattern on average.

So if you get a signal with a 15% pattern over a reasonable period of time then you can assume this is a real alien signal, right?

But any alien civilization with even a tiny degree of technology uses compression. They compress their files. They compress their data. We do it. Analog TV and radio is becoming a thing of the past already and we've only managed to fly to the moon. There's only a few year gap where a civilization invents the radio but not yet compression, and a civilization like this is not very advanced (since compression algorithms are not that complicated.)

So the aliens will of course have very good compression software. In which case there will be exactly 0% patterns in their transmissions. Literally 0% because compression software works by removing patterns.

So instead of looking for patterns, SETI should be looking for NO PATTERNS.

So if they aren't sending information, we can tell that they are?

Perhaps as well as data compression, they would also be using the highest frequencies they can (you can transmit more information at higher frequencies), way above radio frequencies anyway, perhaps above gamma ray frequencies.

In fact, if we assume that they are sufficiently advanced, why wouldn't they use communication media that are not bound by relativistic limitations (not limited by lightspeed).

Either of these would be beyond our current capability to detect.

The one thing that doesn't depend on language, culture, or technology is math.

A civilization wanting to make contact would take advantage of things like pi, prime numbers, and frequencies younger civilizations are most likely to know about to send transmissions. It's that kind of thinking that went into SETI.

You're right of course that if they wanted to stay hidden they would. And we have no idea what life and communication would be like on other planets.

But ya gotta start somewhere. Math is the best place.


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reply to post by OUNjahhryn


Yea I can be pretty retarded with my humor. I'm glad you got a laugh. Feels good to smile doesn't it?

Originally posted by littlezeta
hi i dont believe a word seti says

to think advanced ets wud use radio technology is laughable

they are a government puppet just like nasa

By now the radio waves are too broken and scattered, that if seti get anything it will be here and there and so random that they will just pass it off as inconclusive.

Now something like quasars signals, is along the lines to look for? just a thought, Ive always wondered.
Now just reading these pulses is impossible.

en.wikipedia.org...

A quasi-stellar radio source ("quasar") is a very energetic and distant active galactic nucleus. Quasars are the most luminous objects in the universe. Quasars were first identified as being high redshift sources of electromagnetic energy, including radio waves and visible light, that were point-like, similar to stars, rather than extended sources similar to galaxies

Quasars show a very high redshift, which is an effect of the expansion of the universe between the quasar and the Earth.[1] They are the most luminous, powerful, and energetic objects known in the universe. They tend to inhabit the very centers of active young galaxies and can emit up to a thousand times the energy output of the Milky Way. When combined with Hubble's law, the implication of the redshift is that the quasars are very distant—and thus, it follows, objects from much earlier in the universe's history. The most luminous quasars radiate at a rate that can exceed the output of average galaxies, equivalent to one trillion (1012) suns. This radiation is emitted across the spectrum, almost equally, from X-rays to the far-infrared with a peak in the ultraviolet-optical bands, with some quasars also being strong sources of radio emission and of gamma-rays. In early optical images, quasars looked like single points of light (i.e. point sources), indistinguishable from stars, except for their peculiar spectra. With infrared telescopes and the Hubble Space Telescope, the "host galaxies" surrounding the quasars have been identified in some cases.[2] These galaxies are normally too dim to be seen against the glare of the quasar, except with these special techniques. Most quasars cannot be seen with small telescopes, but 3C 273, with an average apparent magnitude of 12.9, is an exception. At a distance of 2.44 billion light-years, it is one of the most distant objects directly observable with amateur equipment.

an advanced civilization, still has the reach the point of super advancement, so along the way, during some period of their progression they must have used uncompressed radio waves.

since radio waves travel at the speed of light, and the technology to detect these radio waves on earth is only about 30-40 years old (seti) any e.t. radio signals from their history when they used radio signals probably would have hit earth thousands of years ago.

the farthest star in our galaxy is about 70,000 light years away.

so this advanced race would have to have been using radio waves 70,000 years ago just for us to hear it now.

but advancement has nothing to do with radio waves. even if we are a million years advanced, we'd still monitor radio waves because they are a common and important part of our universe. one the basic cosmic elements of outer space.

the only thing that might change with technology is the speed and sensitivity that an advanced race would be able to detect them.

most likely our radio waves being sent out have probably already been picked up and observed by extra-terrestrial life.

advanced races most likely wouldn't be sending out radio waves but monitoring them and sending out only if they chose to.

in short advanced races beat us to it.

Originally posted by MyPathManifests
Then there would be no way to discern the radio noise from stars and various other natural phenomenon in space. You are basically saying there is no way to pick up and then interpret any foreign sentient radio signals. Besides that, with the technology were working on today, soon radio signals will be a thing of the past.

Scientists Measure Communication Between Quantum Intangled Atoms

edit on 25-3-2011 by MyPathManifests because: (no reason given)

No there is a way to still find them. Because radio noise from stars will have patterns in it, since it is random. But compression is not random, compression takes out ALL patterns. Even random data has patterns just by chance.

So all they have to do is change it to look for no patterns as well as patterns. Because there is also very little chance for random noise to give 0% patterns over a period of time.

It seems to me that any advanced civilization would use a wide range of technologies, including radio, 'cause you never know how advanced the prospective contactees may be.

I also think (1) that SETI is filled with disinfo agents and government tools and (2) that they've already received and probably responded to a fair number of intelligent signals, but see (1).

Does anyone believe that an advanced civilization will transmit un-compressed data?

Listen to a raw wave file and you can destinguish a pattern, but listen to a compressed mp3-file, in its raw format, and you are left with "random" data...

Maybe Seti should look for a file-header ;-)

reply to post by sign00


Natural electromagnetic radiation from space has a very wide bandwidth. Narrow bandwidth signals do not appear in nature, as far as we know anyway. If a narrow bandwidth signal with no modulation (information) on it at all was detected by SETI, or any other radio telescope for that matter, there would always be that niggling doubt that it may be some peculiar naturally occurring signal. If, on the other hand, the narrow band signal did contain some modulation, regardless of what format that modulation might take, there would be no doubt. The signal would be synthetic, a manufactured signal being generated by an intelligent extraterrestrial species, guaranteed. SETI is certainly looking forward, and now that the planet hunters are turning up more and more extra solar planets in the 'Goldilocks Zones' of their stars, some only 20 light years away, in our back yard Galactically speaking, SETI will be able to target their search precisely at these planets. I think the next few years will be very exciting indeed.

reply to post by sign00


Yeah...could be on something here.

Like....if you wanna see a blackhole look at places where is nothing to see...