Welcome Worry-Free Nuclear Power: Rossi's Energy Catalyzer

Welcome Worry-Free Nuclear Power: Rossi's Energy Catalyzer

pesn.com

Unlike some other potential alternative energy technologies, the E-Cat cold fusion technology is commercial ready. It is beyond the prototype stage and is in process of being implemented. A one megawatt plant producing thermal energy is planned to open in Greece the second half of October later this year. This technology is not a "pie in the sky" possibility, but a reality that due to a lack of mainstream media coverage is not being broadly noticed or anticipated.

If in the coming years, existing conventional nuclear plants are shutdown, or if plans for new plants are cancelled, the E-Ca

(visit the link for the full news article)

If this is indeed true then this is HUGE, real change will have finally come! I am somewhat sceptical of course as with every other announcement of a break through. However this is the first one in quite a while that claims to be beyond the prototype stage and ready to rock and roll and is being implemented. Here's to hoping this one lives up to its claims!

They have also demonstrated it at Bologna university
www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com...
www.lenr-canr.org...


pesn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by hawkiye

However this is the first one in quite a while that claims to be beyond the prototype stage and ready to rock and roll.

"claims" = They have provided nothing to back up those claims.

Many have claimed to be beyond the prototype stage, just far along enough to get backing by investors yet nothing comes out of it.

These guys developed their own Science Journal because no one would accept their work. I will go further into depth with it if you'd like. If you review all there is about these guys everything that comes up is suspect.

reply to post by boncho


18 hour demonstration, peer reviewed papers, Implementing 1 meg plant, etc. etc As I said I am sceptical too. However just because orthodox science communities will not give them the time of day does not mean a thing. Every significant invention in history was shunned by these same types. And I see no where they are asking for backing or money of any kind.

reply to post by hawkiye

18 hour demonstration,

Demonstrated only to people they invited.

peer reviewed papers,

Reviewed at the Journal they created, because other science journals would not accept their work. For one, there was a major issue with the devices they were using to gauge their power generation.

Implementing 1 meg plant, etc. etc

Define "implementing". The way these guys have gone about this does not fit with standard business practice.

As I said I am sceptical too. However just because orthodox science communities will not give them the time of day does not mean a thing. Every significant invention in history was shunned by these same types.

When orthodox communities realize there is something sound they back it. They were rejected not because it went against mainstream science, but because of bad method and unknowns that they couldn't explain.

And I see no where they are asking for backing or money of any kind.

You may have not looked hard enough. I have been going through this stuff for a bit. And I admit, what I presented in other threads before was more opinion than anything. After combing over this case for hours I developed said opinion. But I will see if I can compile a cogent argument so it doesn't seem like I am trying to bash for no reason.

I will need a bit of time though.

Here is some food for thought.

Source - 'Journal' of physics.

BOARD OF ADVISERS:

Prof. Sergio Focardi (INFN – University of Bologna – Italy)
Prof. Michael Melich (DOD – USA)
Prof. Alberto Carnera (INFM – University of Padova – Italy)
Prof. Pierluca Rossi (University of Bologna – Italy)
Prof. Luciana Malferrari (University of Bologna – Italy)
Prof. George Kelly (University of New Hampshire – USA)
Prof. Stremmenos Christos (Bologna University – Italy)
Richard Noceti, Ph.D. (LTI-global.com)

Remember that this is from their site. Pay close attention to George Kelly.


University of New Hampshire - Physics Dept.

*Note: You will not find a Prof. George Kelly in UNH

There was a Prof. George Kelly but he died and he was in the field of Psychology, not Physics.

You can read about him Here.


If you have an explanation as to why Rossi and Focardi's made up "science journal" has a made up scientist as an advisor than I am welcome to an explanation. But as it stands, it does not help their credibility.

reply to post by boncho


That is incredible to say the least. I followed/am following (with skepticism) one of the other threads on this from a few months back and don't recall seeing this information about George Kelly. In addition to this, wasn't one of the scientists (was it Fossi?) convicted of fraud in another matter? I'll try to find a link.

Going back to George Kelly, I guess the name could be wrong, or the university could be wrong as well. But if is a complete fabrication, that would be unconscionable and would almost invariably be a death knell to the legitimacy of this project.

reply to post by boncho


I think your far from proving he is just made up. And why couldn't a professor from another discipline be an "advisor"? Maybe he was just an editorial advisor or perhaps he minored in physics or something related? When did he die? Perhaps they just did not remove his name yet?

I agree we need more information and data however why can't we be cautiously optimistic? And orthodox science communities and journals do not support many sound scientific achievements inventions and breakthroughs! In fact they are known for being very close minded and politically and profit motivated. So called cold fusion has been reproduced thousands of times yet no orthodox scientific journal will give it the time of day to even say we need to study it further but in fact bash it endlessly.

Also why so focused on thier journal and not on the technology itself? If it works I don't care about their journal. Why don't we wait till we have enough information about it instead of trying to disprove it before we have all the data etc. If it is a fake it will fade away like the rest.

reply to post by hawkiye

I think your far from proving he is just made up. And why couldn't a professor from another discipline be an "advisor"? Maybe he was just an editorial advisor or perhaps he minored in physics or something related? When did he die? Perhaps they just did not remove his name yet?

George Kelly died in 1967. So unless he was helping them (advising them) from the grave... something is wrong here.

I think these questions you are posing are in defense of these people when a more critical approach should be taken.

So called cold fusion has been reproduced thousands of times yet no orthodox scientific journal will give it the time of day to even say we need to study it further but in fact bash it endlessly.

Link some solid evidence of cold fusion and I will take what you say seriously. But before you do, understand what solid evidence is.

Also why so focused on thier journal and not on the technology itself? If it works I don't care about their journal. Why don't we wait till we have enough information about it instead of trying to disprove it before we have all the data etc. If it is a fake it will fade away like the rest.

Give me some time and I will sift through their data (which I have done before). I can tell you right now it isn't complete and their methods are sloppy. It's not about disproving something just for the sake of disproving something. Just type 'cold fusion' or 'free energy' into youtube or google and see how many scammers pop up. This is about protecting people from made up things that ask for money.

Even if it is not today, someone who believes these things without proof will grow up to maintain this adolescent train of thought which can damage them later in life. Anyone so far who has invested in the so called 'free energy' products has been burned, badly. I am not saying innovation is impossible, just that these guys are not providing a case. And everyone before them has robbed naive investors out of money.

And I will continue with this at another time.

reply to post by Noscible


Andrea Rossi was the one charged with fraud.Back in the day @ Petrol Dragon

Caution: some of the following is translated by google.

Andrea Rossi was jailed and 56 will undergo processes that engage for about 17 years. Of all these processes, all the more serious ones for which he was imprisoned, they will end with acquittal. Of the remaining processes, which are exclusively tax reasons, caused by the bankruptcy of the companies concerned, will end up with 5 sentences, the others will end in acquittals, and requirements.

Source


Rossi's site, explains himself getting nailed by the feds.

In 1979, Andrea Rossi will I get a degree in Chemical Engineering from the University of Kensington, California (USA) also because of the numerous professional credits earned at the University thanks to the numerous patents filed since the first years of his professional career.

The so called "University" that Rossi went to was a diploma mill and they later ended up with an action against them and were shut down.

Dear Graduate :
We are w r i t i n g t o i n f o r m y o u t h a t dur ing your course o f studies, Kensington
University, I n c . w a s operating i n violat ion of Hawaii’s l a w s relating t o unaccredited
degree grant ing inst i tut ions. By law, such violations are automat ical ly considered
unfair o r decept ive business pract ices.

Further reading in this PDF.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by boncho

 

I agree we need more information and data however why can't we be cautiously optimistic? And orthodox science communities and journals do not support many sound scientific achievements inventions and breakthroughs! In fact they are known for being very close minded and politically and profit motivated. So called cold fusion has been reproduced thousands of times yet no orthodox scientific journal will give it the time of day to even say we need to study it further but in fact bash it endlessly.

edit on 20-3-2011 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

"Orthodox" science is not close minded, rather it has very strict standards for what is required as "proof" rather than "conjecture". Cold fusion has NOT been repeated independently under controlled conditions in an unambiguous manner. do you really think that this loose collective of so-called "orthodox" scientists would verify something as ground breaking as cold fusion, only to turn around and say "actually, it doesn't fit with the status quo, let's suppress it!"? Of course not.

Why are people not alarmed by tell-tale signs such as creating your own journal to publish your own work with the view of deceiving the casual observer into thinking the work is being published in credible journals? Or to have people on your review board who are dead and/or not physicists? This is not normal behaviour for a credible scientist, it is the behaviour of someone who wishes to deceive. The fact that people are willing to gloss over such serious signs says much more about their desire to believe than their desire to assess the credibility of parties concerned in a critical manner.

Originally posted by john_bmth
Why are people not alarmed by tell-tale signs such as creating your own journal to publish your own work with the view of deceiving the casual observer into thinking the work is being published in credible journals?

If you want to "believe" a self-made journal is good enough.

If you want to "know" it's not.

That's why my signature, borrowed from Carl Sagan says, "I don't want to believe, I want to know".

Some people are still waiting for the circa 1872 Keely Motor to come out. That's what I call believing! Even 139 years of waiting for this perpetual motion contraption doesn't faze them.

And also related to my signature, this Rossi thing is an extraordinary claim with no extraordinary evidence.

And if we're wrong and Rossi starts making and selling power, I have no problem with someone telling me "I told you so". But until that happens, there's plenty of reason to be skeptical.

After doing some further research on this I think Boncho is right and this looks to not have any real credibility. To bad maybe we should start hanging these guys who make these types of claims.

Originally posted by hawkiye
After doing some further research on this I think Boncho is right and this looks to not have any real credibility. To bad maybe we should start hanging these guys who make these types of claims.

Here is the thing, I can't stand these guys, for one, I've done over 40 or so hours of research into them because of the claims that were being made, and nothing validates them but lots of questions are raised... Number two, is that I can't figure out what is going on exactly. And trust me there is more to the story. You can u2u me if you want to know my opinion.

After researching new power plants in Greece I came across this article.

Two New Power Plants in Greece

Quote:

The station of 420MW adopts the combined cycle technology and uses natural gas. The investment cost €275mil. and was constructed in 2,5 years employing 400 people.

And

Worth mentioning is that the group invested more than €2bil. in thermal plants and in 2011 no new investments will be implemented.

I think this Rossi is emitting a load of unnatural gas himself.

Originally posted by boncho


Here is the thing, I can't stand these guys, for one, I've done over 40 or so hours of research into them because of the claims that were being made, and nothing validates them but lots of questions are raised... Number two, is that I can't figure out what is going on exactly. And trust me there is more to the story. You can u2u me if you want to know my opinion.

Good point boncho. There are some genuine anomalies being claimed as "low-energy nuclear reactions," but in reality we don't know if they are indeed nuclear reactions. The formal scientific view is that they are most likely not fusion reactions.

Here is an interview with Rossi from this Wednesday on Coast to Coast. He says there are no investors that he sold everything and put all his own money into this so no one can claim he is trying to scam them. Said he knows he has to have a something that works and not just promises. And that this will be proven when the 1 meg plant is implemented in Octobor in Greece.

These will be manufactured in the US. It was mentioned by another guest Sterling Allen that Rossi was exonerated from his earlier fraud charges, although I have not verified that. Says he is putting it all on the line with this. I found this interesting because if this was a scam why bring it to a major University, put all your own money into it, and then come on Coast to Coast and say its do or die? If you're a scammer you just keep coming up with new twists to delay while you milk more money out of people... There seems to be no real motive for scamming here. So it looks like sometime in October is D day so to speak.

reply to post by hawkiye

Here is an interview with Rossi from this Wednesday on Coast to Coast. He says there are no investors that he sold everything and put all his own money into this so no one can claim he is trying to scam them.

His money? As in money that was his from previous fraud practices or money that was loaned to him? If I raise capital and put it into my name, or use it for collateral to get loans is it not my money?

A play on words perhaps...

I found this interesting because if this was a scam why bring it to a major University, put all your own money into it, and then come on Coast to Coast and say its do or die?

Scams are often more elaborate than most common people can picture. Please tell me why anything this guy says shouldn't be suspect because of his track record?

You failed to address the fake person at his company or his fake credentials. And the coast to coast interview was a joke, the one speaker was putting words into Rossi's mouth.

Background on Rossi
Following articles are translated from Italian.

MILAN How to become rich and famous by buying toxic waste by companies and unglazed, but turning them into an unlikely oil Rossi brand. It 's a very contemporary story, a story of garbage, a billion and a great ability to exploit the' green wave. For years, Andrea Rossi, 39, owner of Petrol Dragon, inventor, author of a book on how to extract gasoline or diesel fuel from waste, has made a fortune.

They say the Guardia di Finanza: Our investigations have allowed to establish that the so-called oil that came from Caponago never took place in the market. Without the analysis showed that the substance is a mixture of untreated toxic waste containing harmful chemical solvents and highly accentuated with the presence of chlorine and sulfuric acid. In short, a bombshell highly dangerous.

Rossi claimed to take toxic waste and turn it into oil. There is legitimate science, and a few production methods behind producing energy from waste but it wasn't the case in regards to Rossi's company. This area of the energy sector has always been rife with fraud, which I will get to.

Rossi and a number of companies linked to him Recalled toxic waste and for this they were paid around 400 pounds per kilogram.

And he added a curious detail: the best customers of the Dragon Petrol included a paper mill in the province of Frosinone, that between January '1991 and March' in 1992 had acquired 600 tons of fuel self-sufficient. Too bad that the factory had stopped production since '90.

So Rossi was getting paid for removal of toxic waste. He wasn't doing anything with besides "selling" it to fake companies. Well, a company that was no longer in production, I am sure it was real at one time.

Here is a similar scheme regarding toxic waste where people were putting it into regular gas at a gas station, there have been a few of these cases where people's car engines exploded after running the sludge mixture.

Toxic waste has been a market for fraud for quite awhile. And if you do some research you can find major cases where people were getting paid for removal and storing it in warehouses, later walking away from the leases.

Lets not forget the Nuclear Waste dumping off the coast of Somalia that spurred the Pirate problem.



More Sources: 1 and 2


So, as to all the 'indicators' that you listed, that this seems 'real', there is a lot more to the story, and a lot that you seem to dismiss because a dogmatic faith to see this technology come-to-forwishen.

reply to post by boncho


Ease up dude. I am not saying the guy is legit I just thought it was interesting. The things you bring up are legit problems for his credibility. However I still see no motive here for scam. He says he sold everything he has to finance this. Even if it were money he made in previous scams why sink it into this when he is not asking for any money or investors etc.? I also said I did not verify whether he was exonerated I just mentioned that it was said by a third party.

The point is there is no motive here for a scam, that IMO makes it interesting. Also it is plausible he was set up previously to suppress what ever he was doing. Again I am just speculating here.

Update:

Ok I am going to play devils advocate here a bit. I did some research on Rossi and there is plenty of links to him being a fraud etc. but I also found links validating him also.

Here is a site where a well known Physicist Dr Emdund Storms validates Rossi's works as a break through:

The website Cold Fusion Now is reporting about a recent interview conducted by James Martinez with physicist and researcher, Dr. Edmund Storms, formerly of the Los Alamos National Laboratory who is commenting on Andrea Rossi’s cold fusion technology. He has recently returned from the ICCF-16 conference in India where researchers in the field of low energy nuclear reaction discuss the latest research in the field.
Storms makes some interesting statements on the importance of Rossi’s technology, and is of the belief that it is a significant breakthrough which can have far reaching effects in the world of energy production. Here are some of his comments.

“It’s a major step. It doesn’t change the reality, the reality had already been established, but it has moved the debate from the laboratory into an industrial environment, and it’s put the phenomenon on the map now . . .

“We’ve arrived. It’s interesting we’ve arrived in a different car than we thought we were. Cold fusion started out using deuterium and palladium, and then Rossi found that it worked quite well in nickel and light hydrogen . . .

“No, it didn’t surprise me. It’s quite, what would I call it, simple justice. The system absolutely needs this, and suddenly it’s available. I guess it took both happening at the same time to change minds.

You have to be desperate enough to want to believe that this is real, and then you have to have a device that puts so much energy out that you cannot ignore it, and you marry those two things together, and the skeptics are just blown away.”

Cold Fusion Now includes much more of what Dr. Storms says on the topic, and also includes a link to the full audio podcast of the interview.
www.freeenergytimes.com...

I did a little research on Dr Storms

Here is his site apparently
home.netcom.com...

He has a written a book on cold fusion or what is termed "low energy nuclear reactions"
www.worldscibooks.com...

Here has written several papers evaluating the Pons-Fleischmann effect here is an excerpt from one:

The field which is conventionally called "Cold Fusion" has grown and now should be called "Chemically-Assisted Nuclear Reactions" or "Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions," depending on the emphasis one wishes to apply. The claims are supported by a wide range of anomalous behaviors involving nuclear reactions and energy production. Many methods and chemical environments have been found to produce consistent patterns of behavior. This paper will only address the claims for heat production using the electrolytic technique with palladium as the cathode and heavy-water as the electrolyte, as was originally used by Pons and Fleischmann.(6) Also evaluated will be the nuclear reaction which is proposed to be the source of this claimed anomalous energy. A broader understanding can be obtained by reading several reviews which are available.(2, 3, 4)
home.netcom.com...

reply to post by hawkiye

Dr. Edmund Storms

Not sure why Storms is lending his name to Rossi, but regardless, it doesn't help his credibility....Is there a paper that Storms did for Rossi, reproduced his results or even signed off on anything?

Storms has been corrected by Rothwell before in his papers. I suggest you look up what Rothwell says about Rossi. Since we are lending names for credibility. Rothwell supports Rossi (from what I've read) but repeatedly pleads for Rossi to offer something up to it can be repeated in the lab.

Here is the paper by Storms.

Here is one of Rothwell's opinions on Rossi.

He would gain much more credibility if
he would only allow the NRL to test his machine, but I doubt that will
happen. I do not understand why, but he does not want more independent tests
of his machine. It sure makes him look bad, doesn't it? (Rothwell)

Rothwell believes the 1mw reactor is a useless venture and the most important thing is for Rossi to work on getting a real patent through, or getting independent confirmation of his process.

Storms disagrees with him and thinks it is all about raising capital without losing proprietary information:

Rossi's goal is to keep people confused so that no one discovers his secret until he gets a patent. I suspect a lot is going on under the radar using NDA that allow Rossi to contact investors and the US patent office. (Storms)

This doesn't fit in with what anyone is saying, including Rossi himself.


12
The majority of "research" that people seem to do on this is google press releases. You do realize there is nothing stopping me from holding a press conference and telling the world I found cold fusion, right? I can also make my own journal and prototype that no one is allowed to get near, and I can repeat everything Rossi has done.

So have I evented Cold Fusion?


Regarding Rossi

As far as the Hydrogen/Nickel reaction goes, this has been done since the 1920's. And people have long known about anomalous heat production. Rossi 'claims' to have a magic catalyst but he won't tell anyone what it is.

He never even filed it in his patent his entire process, meaning it was guaranteed to be reject before being mailed, and it offers him no protection.

RED FLAG.

1. However I still see no motive here for scam.

2. He says he sold everything he has to finance this.

3. Even if it were money he made in previous scams why sink it into this when he is not asking for any money or investors etc.?

1. Always a motive, money.

2. What did he sell exactly, Leonardo is the company that is supposed to manufacture his 1mw reactor. Leonardo, as in, his company. So he didn't sell everything it seems.

3. Who says he is not asking money for investors? Him? The people around him are saying that is exactly why he is acting so weird.

Put this into perspective, his last company was "selling" a product to another company that was out of operation. Eventually he sold the "deviced" of his process to an actual company and when they received them they didn't work. He blamed it on the manufacturer.

So who is to say that he can't run a 1mw reactor off of a thermo-electrochemical reaction for a few months until he sells a number of his reactors. By the time they are operational he can shut his plant down and be off in Bermuda somewhere.

The so called company that is "buying" his rector just created a website in the beginning of this year, I doubt it existed before that.

edit on 26-3-2011 by boncho because: (no reason given)