Ancient Sumerian Literature and the Bible

reply to post by ararisq


If this had to do with anything else, besides something that people hold near and dear to their hearts.. I believe everyone would agree unanimously that the one that predates the other by 500 years would be considered the original without a question. 500 years is a long time.

So let's say that it IS Lucifer's version of things, and it predates the Bible by 500 years.. was it Satan pre-emptively attacking or deceiving Christianity or anyone that follows the bible? (that's how priests and religious scholars explain the Jesus-like stories - long before Jesus, anyways)

And what happens IF an earlier DSS manuscript pops up and predates the Epic of Gilgamesh? How would that affect your opinions and belief systems?

A2D

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
And what happens IF an earlier DSS manuscript pops up and predates the Epic of Gilgamesh? How would that affect your opinions and belief systems?

A2D

Any new manuscript would be amazing. And I am not talking about the "real bible" or "new translation" that you can purchase for $495.00 and pops up in threads about every 6 months here. It would just as ground shattering as the Dead Sea Scrolls were in their time. I've already stated in the thread something to the effect of:

"I still hope for an earlier and more complete version of the Dead Sea Scrolls to clear up some of this."

and also

"Do you ever wish the Great Library @ Alexandria was not burned. Imagine the documentation we could have had.

unfortunately, we have no earlier texts. Some of the earliest literature we have are the Sumerian tablets discussed in the OP. It is not about affecting my opinion or belief system. This thread is a comparison between the Bible and those tablets. If you read the entirety of this thread before posting further, I think you will see you have stumbled into a secret meeting of a few ATS scholars who are not discussing the validity of the information, as all the sources are cited in the OP, but ancient texts and religion and how they compare in general =) Lots of really good information here, with some wonderful contributions by more than a few members.

reply to post by SonOfTheLawOfOne


Very true. Have ya read the Terra Papers? Supposedly the Bible is created by Enlil to act as a control mechanism after Adamus was no longer a mindless slave. Enki is the serpent in the garden that 'tempted' the 'tribes' (Adamus and Eve) into taking the apple and eating, giving THEM, US, the realization of who we really are. There's been lots of kinks along the way but we're getting there. Also, archeologists have found remains supposedly of half breeds.. Centaur/human, bird/human remains that Enki also created but were in the end, not functionable? I guess. Noone can sway a fanatic to Christianity or any other religion though unless they want to hear it. The more crazy and scary claims are made, the more people believe them, honestly.

It's an interesting idea about the Anti Christ possibly being Enki.. Although doubtful.

Enlil=Wanting to keep humanity controlled, in check (Vatican and all other control institutions) while Enki wants life to be free, hence giving us free will. I find it very fascinating and very plausible. Just like how some view us all as accidents just like the universe even though it's immensely beautiful, or Christians believing a Sadistic God made them.

reply to post by Vizzle


Trust me, I've read the entire thread. I've been here scratching my head for quite a while.

I was just curious...I've been doing some interesting studies of the Library of Nineveh so this caught my eye...

I am also waiting for an earlier version of the DSS...It's highly probably that one existed...it's just a matter of where it is now...is it being witheld or is it even found yet? Did it even remain intact?

It really gets my blood flowing to think about the possibilities....

A2D

reply to post by Vizzle


I don't won't to seem prideful, but I know a lot about the Bible, and most of the dates and history your have posted are in fact quite accurate. Now your premise and conclusion I do not agree with, but that is besides the point.

The first five books of the Bible were written by Moses, which as you said was many years, over 500 after the Sumerians already "penned" their account of these historic events, i.e. the flood, and creation. So if anyone doesn't believe the Bible's account, you have an even older account that backs up the Bibles!

Now what would be really neat would be to find tablets, or history BEFORE the flood and see how they lived life back then when people lived hundreds of years old. As for the Bible, the book of Job is the oldest book in the Bible, most likely written shortly after the flood.

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by Vizzle

 

Trust me, I've read the entire thread. I've been here scratching my head for quite a while.

I was just curious...I've been doing some interesting studies of the Library of Nineveh so this caught my eye...

I hope the head scratching is a good thing and not a bad one! Have you seen the ETCSL site yet?

I am also waiting for an earlier version of the DSS...It's highly probably that one existed...it's just a matter of where it is now...is it being witheld or is it even found yet? Did it even remain intact?

It really gets my blood flowing to think about the possibilities....

I think the probability of an earlier one existing is pretty high myself. I always wonder what is in the Vatican archives. I still wish the Library at Alexandria was not burned. I think we lost a lot of the earlier documentation when that happened.

Originally posted by KJV1611
reply to post by Vizzle

 

I don't won't to seem prideful, but I know a lot about the Bible, and most of the dates and history your have posted are in fact quite accurate. Now your premise and conclusion I do not agree with, but that is besides the point.

Thanks. I tried to be as accurate as possible with the dating.

The first five books of the Bible were written by Moses, which as you said was many years, over 500 after the Sumerians already "penned" their account of these historic events, i.e. the flood, and creation. So if anyone doesn't believe the Bible's account, you have an even older account that backs up the Bibles!

Totally agree. I even state in the thread that by the end of my writing it that i felt that Noah and Utnapishtim were one and the same. I hope you enjoyed the story of Noah and the flood comparison. I thought the point by point contrast really shows that the stories are the same, even with their differences.

Now what would be really neat would be to find tablets, or history BEFORE the flood and see how they lived life back then when people lived hundreds of years old. As for the Bible, the book of Job is the oldest book in the Bible, most likely written shortly after the flood.

Totally agree. I hope that one day we do find more documentation. When you get back that far in history, there is not a lot of original source material. I keep hoping for more amazing discoveries!

Originally posted by faceoff85
reply to post by EssenceOfSilence

 

Now stay with me cause i'm going out on a limb here. I think that all of the mythical story's we know of, as in the Greek Mythology and also Egyptian religion, could very well be fact-based and be in fact telling us about the results of the biblical story's on how, before the great flood, angels came down and took human forms (while maintaining their angelic abilities) impregnating human women. The offspring we know of as Nephilim are called Demi-gods in greek mythology. Hercules could have very well been a reallife person back then. If im not mistaken, the book of Enoch goes into much more detail about those days.

edit on 18/3/2011 by faceoff85 because: reply to:

I agree completely with you here, and I'm a fundamental, independent, King James Bible believing Baptist. Although the story of Hercules was probably stolen from Samson, but that's just my opinion. Just read Gen. 6, and a few select psalms and this can easily be seen in the scriptures about what you posted.

reply to post by Vizzle


Just to clarify, yes the head scratching is a good thing. It isn't all too often that something here at ATS really peaks my interest.

Thanks for the read. I appreciate your hard work. (even though I don't agree with this......

The Bible was written using stories and themes from earlier cultures and religious texts.

It would have been a much better read without this *opinion*.)
A2D

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by Vizzle

 

Just to clarify, yes the head scratching is a good thing. It isn't all too often that something here at ATS really peaks my interest.

Thanks for the read. I appreciate your hard work. (even though I don't agree with this......

The Bible was written using stories and themes from earlier cultures and religious texts.

It would have been a much better read without this *opinion*.)

Note to self, work on the thesis statement =) Good thing I don't turn this in till Tuesday

Did you check out the ETCSL site? You will probably enjoy it, though it has not been updated since 2006. There is some serious slacking going on over at Oxford!

reply to post by Vizzle


No I haven't checked out that site yet...I'm doing something entirely different for now...but I will note it.

(Regarding the thesis)I think it would be more appropriate if you would allow the reader to come to their own conclusions regarding the similarities rather than simply stating your own conclusion.

A2D

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by Vizzle

 

No I haven't checked out that site yet...I'm doing something entirely different for now...but I will note it.

(Regarding the thesis)I think it would be more appropriate if you would allow the reader to come to their own conclusions regarding the similarities rather than simply stating your own conclusion.

A2D

I will play with it, thanks for the heads up =) That was the original thesis that I used when I started the research. I'll ponder on it for a while and see if I can come up with something a little more neutral

reply to post by Vizzle


What class is this for? I think it's very interesting and well written...Just a few things I'd critique tbh...

No. 1, obviously the thesis statement...

No. 2, it kind of just...ends? I'd suggest a concluding paragraph summarizing the implications of your study...

Other than that, good stuff. B+

Originally posted by Agree2Disagree
reply to post by Vizzle

 

What class is this for? I think it's very interesting and well written...Just a few things I'd critique tbh...

No. 1, obviously the thesis statement...

No. 2, it kind of just...ends? I'd suggest a concluding paragraph summarizing the implications of your study...

Other than that, good stuff.

B+

It's my term paper for my world civilizations pre-1500 class. I have always been interested in the ancient world and history. I actually have quite an extensive book collection dealing with ancient Egypt and the middle east. I really thought this topic would be a little controversial, which always makes a good read, and not something that has been rehashed over and over (like Alexander, Rome, and the likes).

reply to post by Vizzle


Have you read The Corpus Hermeticum, specifically - I. Poemandres, the Shepherd of Men?

Not sure if this fits in with everything here but its yet another version of Genesis.


Poemandres

Originally posted by FoxfilesMulder
reply to post by Vizzle

 

Have you read The Corpus Hermeticum, specifically - I. Poemandres, the Shepherd of Men?

Not sure if this fits in with everything here but its yet another version of Genesis.


Poemandres

I have not. I will check those out later tonight when I am at work. Thanks for the additional info!

as far as i know there are many books which predate the epic of gilgamesh.

a theory i have is that enki is one of the egyptian atum, who are the god templates for a creation of clones, later called the atum. these two atums (the god race who cloned a slave race, both called atum) are not separated in a clear fashion in the later english translation (atum=adam, plural words). as a result, the creators are mixed in with their creations in the passages in genesis

Originally posted by KJV1611Now what would be really neat would be to find tablets, or history BEFORE the flood and see how they lived life back then when people lived hundreds of years old. As for the Bible, the book of Job is the oldest book in the Bible, most likely written shortly after the flood.

As I said elsewhere, you might take a look at the Book of Enoch, still in print.

Originally posted by Vizzle
Mr. Harte,

I take your post as a serious compliment, as you have always been one of the few voices of reason here at ATS when it comes to ancient history. I lurked here for a long time before signing up. If the only thing you take issue with is the date that I give for the Torah, then I know that I have done a good job =) Heck, I even stated in the OP that:

"The theoretical date that religious scholars believe that the Hebrew Bible, the Torah was written by Moses is between 1446 and 1406 BCE."

Did you happen to have handy the Sumerian date?

Thank you for your additional information, and I do hope you enjoyed it =)

edit on 18-3-2011 by Vizzle because: St Paddys Day =)

LOL

Dude, I usually don't comment about posts that are accurate!

I only wanted to ensure that the academic date range fior the Torah was posted.

Now, which Sumerian date are you asking about?

Harte