Point Of No Return: U.S. And NATO Prepare For War With Libya

Originally posted by FPB214

Originally posted by 13th Zodiac

Originally posted by FPB214

Originally posted by 13th Zodiac

Originally posted by FPB214
If anything at all I thought we would just impose a no-fly zone, which is more than likely what will happen. No need to have a real "war" over it. The rebels are only asking for help against the attacks from the sky, if they say they can handle the rest on the ground, let them prove themselves and give them what they want.

No Nation has the right to dictate to another over their own sovereign air space .To impose and enforce a no-fly zone requires the physical destruction of airfields,inferstructure and planes to achieve this objective .Sounds like a fully blown war to me friend .Do you think they would just ask nicely ? They do this and it is beyound the point of talk and no return ! If this was done to your country would you just sit back and allow it .No you would defend your country from a unwelcome foreign invader and be labelled a terrorist .Gotta love that label just for defending your home .

I understand what a no fly zone means in terms of actions. I agree with your statement, the thing is (from what we are hearing) they are asking for the international community to help. You see Libyan's with signs saying they want a no fly zone, so why would they all of a sudden turn on the force that is giving them what they need/want?

"We can handle the troops on foot, but we want help from the world to take out Ghaddafi's air power"

"Oh wait, your giving us what we want, now we are going to shoot you down from the sky for helping us"

Doesn't make sense.

Can you give me the numbers of the Libyians carrying these said signs and supporting the rebel movement ? What is the percentage ? Can you provide proof that these rebels are even Libyians ? They all speak very good English when interviewed. Can you also show me one ,just one piece of video image that actually has fighter jets - bombing and dead or dying people all in one frame of footage ? I can show you better ufo hoaxes on youtube than what exist's of these said claims about Gaddaffi .

Don't you think that thousands of civillians will be killed ,just like the airbombing actions in Afganastan? Next there will be (FALSE) stories of Gaddaffi's men hiding in schools and hospitals ! You know what is going to happen then don't you my friend ? WMD's in food and electricity producing plants .
Anyone who believe's the rubbish in the media and supports this is guilty and has blood on their hands .People like that need to be drafted and show just how they are prepared to support those convictions instead of sitting at home watching tv in comfort with a good meal ,while these people are murdered .

www.youtube.com... Watch this from 5.55 onwards he makes some very valid statements .

Here is some live footage of first gulf war filmed and reported from a hollywood basement if you know what I mean ? www.youtube.com...

edit on 17-3-2011 by 13th Zodiac because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2011 by 13th Zodiac because: adding links

To be honest I doubt thousands of civillians will be killed. Even if, without help they will be killed anyway. They are murdering women, children, and the elderly already. Also i've been wanting to join the Army Rangers for 14 years now, so I don't have to be "drafted" to see what it's like. I don't want to take lives, just something i've wanted to do. My brother will recruit me and he's already gone over 3 times. Fact is, their are real terrorist's who are willing to kill Americans, Brits, Canadians, and in fact their very own people. Also, I saw the "Libyans" with signs saying they wanted a no fly zone on the news. Their are "rebels" who are asking for help, and im sure it's not all done in a studio as you think, or in an American desert since you can go to youtube and find many videos of citizens of that country who are experiencing the violence themselves (im sure you would say its fake though). It's a real problem, and they want help. My hope is we destroy Quaddafi's forces with practically NO civillian/rebel deaths. That is likely not to happen, but the UN does not want to kill innocents, you can only do that through good communication and even better surveillance.

Also, your telling me someone with a bomb coming after you, or a with a gun trying to shoot you, it's murder for trying to stay alive? You think when an American sees a young little boy he is going to shoot him for fun because we are "murdering" them? No, they kill out of protection, they are serving their country and doing their job. We see the anti-American protests from certain people, yet once they are in deep water because of their OWN country, they cry for our help. Once we help, we are ridiculed again. Like i've said, I care for every human being and would love to help, but I also don't like it when I feel that way yet a muslim from Bahrain would tell me he hates me because of where im from. That's just uneducated, and usually the reasons are general stereotypes which is led by ignorance. In this case though, I haven't seen these protest's, just people wanting a fair word, who are being cut down and asking for International help.

It's not murder, because the young soldiers may have joined for educational/college/career purposes, or just because it's something they have wanted to do since practically birth. They aren't evil savages purposely murdering innocent human beings. Not everything you think is true, vice versa. I think some people spend a little too much time on ATS.

A no fly zome over Libya seems a good idea but I just hope it doesn't become a land war...
With realtions between the USA and the UK already strained another friendly fire incident that kills Brits could break the so called special relationship for good.
"And besides, shouldn't Obama now turn to his new "best friends" the French, to help his soldiers carry out a new attack on a oil rich middle east country? "

Originally posted by FPB214


Also, the few people you "dated", if even true, are naive for beating themselves up, or weak for not being strong and moving forward to become a great country and putting what was done in the past.

I said I had a fiance, also that I had German friends. I didn't 'date' all of them! What do you even mean by 'date'? In America, that means 'have sex with', hey? What do you mean by 'if true'? You think I lied about it... why would I do that? Yes, they're beating themselves up - in order to make sure that nothing like what happened with Hitler ever happens again!

Originally posted by FPB214but they always remember it and teach it to show the next generation why it was horrible so it is not repeated.

Exactly my point!

Originally posted by FPB214If we could see 50-100 years from now and see Iraq as a fair, prosperous nation, im sure you would deny it because then the war in Iraq would have actually served a good purpose. Like I said, Iraq can be anything the Iraqi people want it to be, it takes time, dedication, and true motive to do so, but it is very possible.

Missing the point again. You claimed that it's a better place now. It's not.
What Iraq is going to be like in 50-100 years is irrelevant now. The first thing Iraq needs is a truly independent government, which they have not yet got. Make no mistake - the USA invaded Iraq for one reason only - oil! The WMD were a lie. Overthrowing Saddam Hussein was an excuse after the fact (after all Saddam Hussein was an American creature for decades, useful for opposing Iran. Then he got ideas above his station, such as trading oil in the euro, not the dollar. He had to be got rid of. As a pro-war conservative said on Oprah in a show broadcast here the day of the invasion (although recorded some days before, obviously) "If we break it, we gotta say and "fix" it". Well, there hasn't been a lot of fixing going on!
Vicky

Originally posted by Vicky32

Originally posted by FPB214


Also, the few people you "dated", if even true, are naive for beating themselves up, or weak for not being strong and moving forward to become a great country and putting what was done in the past.

I said I had a fiance, also that I had German friends. I didn't 'date' all of them! What do you even mean by 'date'? In America, that means 'have sex with', hey? What do you mean by 'if true'? You think I lied about it... why would I do that? Yes, they're beating themselves up - in order to make sure that nothing like what happened with Hitler ever happens again!

Originally posted by FPB214but they always remember it and teach it to show the next generation why it was horrible so it is not repeated.

Exactly my point!

Originally posted by FPB214If we could see 50-100 years from now and see Iraq as a fair, prosperous nation, im sure you would deny it because then the war in Iraq would have actually served a good purpose. Like I said, Iraq can be anything the Iraqi people want it to be, it takes time, dedication, and true motive to do so, but it is very possible.

Missing the point again. You claimed that it's a better place now. It's not.
What Iraq is going to be like in 50-100 years is irrelevant now. The first thing Iraq needs is a truly independent government, which they have not yet got. Make no mistake - the USA invaded Iraq for one reason only - oil! The WMD were a lie. Overthrowing Saddam Hussein was an excuse after the fact (after all Saddam Hussein was an American creature for decades, useful for opposing Iran. Then he got ideas above his station, such as trading oil in the euro, not the dollar. He had to be got rid of. As a pro-war conservative said on Oprah in a show broadcast here the day of the invasion (although recorded some days before, obviously) "If we break it, we gotta say and "fix" it". Well, there hasn't been a lot of fixing going on!
Vicky

What exactly do you mean by "beating themselves up"? You stay conciously aware of it, but like I said you don't kick yourself in the rear constantly because of it. Every group of people has had it's fair share of problems and bad times, but you aren't "beating" yourself up all the time. Also how did the word "date" make you imply anything about sex?

What I said didn't come out write. I didn't literally mean it was better in the certain areas you describe, I was meaning it is better off in the long run without Saddam ruling with an iron fist. Im not denying the reasons given. Anything is possible and I actually wouldn't be surprised if some proved true. Like i've been saying, Iraq is better off without a dictator. They just got out of a war, both sides are hurting. We probably only spent over a trillion, not that much though, right? I've already stated it earlier "Iraq can be anything the Iraqi people want it to be, it takes time, dedication, and true motive to do so, but it is very possible." They now can have a fresh start. They can shape and mold it to their liking, hopefully they can prosper and grow instead of being dictated for another few decades and being treated cruely. Don't forget all of the human rights abuse too.

Originally posted by FPB214

What exactly do you mean by "beating themselves up"? You stay conciously aware of it, but like I said you don't kick yourself in the rear constantly because of it. Every group of people has had it's fair share of problems and bad times, but you aren't "beating" yourself up all the time. Also how did the word "date" make you imply anything about sex?

What I said didn't come out write. I didn't literally mean it was better in the certain areas you describe, I was meaning it is better off in the long run without Saddam ruling with an iron fist. Im not denying the reasons given. Anything is possible and I actually wouldn't be surprised if some proved true. Like i've been saying, Iraq is better off without a dictator. They just got out of a war, both sides are hurting. We probably only spent over a trillion, not that much though, right? I've already stated it earlier "Iraq can be anything the Iraqi people want it to be, it takes time, dedication, and true motive to do so, but it is very possible." They now can have a fresh start. They can shape and mold it to their liking, hopefully they can prosper and grow instead of being dictated for another few decades and being treated cruely. Don't forget all of the human rights abuse too.

About the word 'date', I got that impression from American TV, which is my only way of knowing what the word means to Americans...
About the rest, I wish I thought you were right! However, I don't think the war is really over yet.. Maybe in 50-100 years it will be a wonderful place, but I don't think the people living there now can wait that long.
Vicky

Originally posted by CholmondleyWarner
A no fly zome over Libya seems a good idea but I just hope it doesn't become a land war...
With realtions between the USA and the UK already strained another friendly fire incident that kills Brits could break the so called special relationship for good.
"And besides, shouldn't Obama now turn to his new "best friends" the French, to help his soldiers carry out a new attack on a oil rich middle east country? "

The fact remains that Libya was your and France's war and we are helping you out.