HAARP Caused Japan Earthquake : Benjamin Fulford

Originally posted by stevcolx
reply to post by subject x

 

There are statements from people associated with the Alaskan facility, including the Director of PR, who explain that it is capable of superheating the ionosphere, causing it to be pushed away from the Earth's surface, then it is snapped back into place again and the resulting pressure can cause earthquakes. So you have to concede, maybe even a little, that HAARP is actually at the very least a possible viable explanation.

www.youtube.com...

Can't see the vid. Not at work. Someone else posted the vid. I just copied the link!

Remind me never, ever to go to a rock concert

By the bye, if the snap back is as massive as you postulate, how come it doesn't register as an atmospheric pressure wave?

How come sundry big bangs, right on the earth's surface don't trigger earthquakes? All that banging during WW2 or any other conflict.

At least TRY to work out some figures from high school physics!!!

reply to post by roadtoad

Ok, I get the point. Somehow your "Indian skills" allow you to see human interference in these natural cloud formations. As I have no "Indian skills", I guess you can stop posting pictures, because I'm just not seeing it.

Thanks, though, for trying to show me what you're seeing.

i just watched the movie "tesla master of lightning" there is this part where in his experiments he created a machine which vibrated his whole house and his neighborhood. with the right kind of machine similar in design one could create an earthquake.

"the first step in avoiding a trap is knowing of it's existance"
frank herbert

Originally posted by subject x

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
First off, we got High frequency pulses of electromagnetic radiation creating thermal expansion that is fast enough to cause sound...

The two-year research effort was directed at understanding the laser generation of underwater sound at relatively low frequencies (below 1 kHz) by nonlinear expansion of the heated water.

oai.dtic.mil...

I don't know about that. EM radiation and lasers (as used in the study shown) are two very different things.

LASER's *ARE* Electromagnetic Radiation... the point was that ANY precise addition of heat in pulses can cause thermodynamic expansion in any materials.

Additionally, I seriously doubt that HAARP is pushing enough power to heat water fast enough to create sound.

I am not talking about heating the water, I am talking about heating sections of the tectonic plate so that it expands a bit, and using the mechanical waves from the expansion to set up the resonance.

And secondly, HAARP is a research project... it's not the only thing in the universe that is capable of sending up electromagnetic waves.

I also have doubts that anyone knows the resonant frequency of the tectonic plates. Resonant frequency is a very specific thing, which is why the Mythbusters couldn't break every glass they tried.

Yeah, they were also being pretty darned lazy with their science, weren't they?

Oh, and basically, Comparing the technological sophistication of "Mythbusters" to a Secret Cabal of multinational Elite is... how do I put this... a really bad comparison.

Just saying.

reply to post by DairyChicken


With the HAARP Observatory, Gakona, Alaska the rated power capacity is 3.6 MW www.haarp.alaska.edu... . However experiments have been undertaken that use over 1 gigawatt of HF power (ERP) meetings.aps.org... . As for how much energy is needed to produce an effect in the magnetosphere is undetermined from my current research. It does depend on how concentrated the energy is, how long it is focused and what frequencies it operates at.

As for your patronising expression on the term scalar there are many terms in the English language that have different meanings in different fields. In mathematics it is also used as a multiplying factor. The people in this thread understood the concept that was being portrayed and that is what is important. This is a new technology and some term has to be used, scalar is one word that has developed common acceptance. Directed Energy is another term that has a similar general meaning to the emergence of these new electromagnetic devices.

This is interesting from another thread posted by balonO

Western Bankers Threatened Japan with HAARP Eco-Destruction a Year Before China Quakes

Constructed by the US Navy and Army in Alaska's bush country during the early 80s, the Pentagon's widely acknowledged high-tech "sky zapper" also can rattle the earth's substructure. But while the Defense Department acknowledges the program's existence, officials are keeping the "pandora's box" that is HAARP--High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program--classified.

Going to be hard to get info about this machine. Like Subject X says it is all speculative. Only because being classified nobody will be able to get the hard facts on what this HAARP can actually do.

On 28 April 1997, Senator Sam Nunn of George organized a counterterrorism conference in Atlanta. During the Q&A session after US Defense Secretary William S. Cohen's presentation, Cohen indicates at least two--individuals? groups? countries?--have succeeded in creating HAARP-like weaponry: "Others are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the usnetic waves."

These guys all say 'Earthquakes'. Whay say it if there is nothing in it?

You have to admit. Something fishy is going on here and it isn't the Sushi!!

reply to post by kwakakev


"With the HAARP Observatory, Gakona, Alaska the rated power capacity is 3.6 MW www.haarp.alaska.edu... . However experiments have been undertaken that use over 1 gigawatt of HF power (ERP) meetings.aps.org... . As for how much energy is needed to produce an effect in the magnetosphere is undetermined from my current research. It does depend on how concentrated the energy is, how long it is focused and what frequencies it operates at. "

I take iit you know the difference between actual power and ERP? With a 3.6MW beam focussed to ~ +/- 6.4 degrees of boresight, the ERP would be about 1GW. Of course, you 'll realise that's ERP. The beam is still 3.6MW at the transmitter, just concentrated into one direction. The word 'Equivalent' is the key.

You know the frequencies at which HAARP works - plenty of peopole have received the signal and will be able to vouchsafe the frequencies.

You can equally well work out the losses of the beam at those frequencies as it passes through the ionosphere.

If the beam diverges +/- 6.4 degrees of boresight you can work out the area of the beam at ~500km, roughly where the magnetoshoere starts, to somehwere between 65000km and the orbit of the moon, where it ends (depending on lots of things, not least of which is day or night.

You will be able to work out the volume of the magnetosphere encompassed by that truncated cone.

You will be able to work out how many microwatts per cubic kilometer a 3.6MW beam can deliver.

You will be able to work out just how tiny a tiny fraction that is, of day-to-day solar radiation.

"As for your patronising expression on the term scalar there are many terms in the English language that have different meanings in different fields. In mathematics it is also used as a multiplying factor. The people in this thread understood the concept that was being portrayed and that is what is important. This is a new technology and some term has to be used, scalar is one word that has developed common acceptance. Directed Energy is another term that has a similar general meaning to the emergence of these new electromagnetic devices. "

Sorry, but multiplying factors are generally called multipliers.

You make the patronising generalisation that "The people in this thread understood the concept that was being portrayed and that is what is important. " Please provide a reference to where this concept is defined.

You witter that "Directed Energy is another term that has a similar general meaning to the emergence of these new electromagnetic devices. "

I think you will find that the expression for the increase in beam power by focussing output by a suitable antenna is called "Forward Gain" If you doubt that, look it up in any RF text book.

"new electromagnetic devices" Please explain what is new about HF radio transmitters (modulated or unmodulated), antennae, phased arrays and HF radio theory in general.

Using pseudoscientific terms may sound very impressive to people who arent familiar with them - or who don't bother to review the provenance of contributions - but to anyone else that kind of posting is about as convincing as the meaningless sentences and general pseudoscience spouted in cosmetics adverts.

No, I don't apologise for being patronising. I just don't think I was patronising enough. You could easily have factored all of the above into your calculations at any time from high school onwards. Had you done that you wouldn't have sounded so daft in the first place.

reply to post by stevcolx


There's plenty that you can work out about HAARP, just start with ordinary engineering textbooks, basic maths and high school physics. See my earlier post.

Your question about why people start these threads which seem to be based on unsubstantiated speculation, pseudoscience or general misinformation, is interesting.

I am beginening to seriously wonder whether therre is a deeper, more insidious nature to this.

Something along the line of "lets see just how far we can push people into accepting the wildest tripe we can serve up"

I wonder more and more whether we ARE being taken for a ride, BUT the question isn't one of conspiracies, its one of conspiracists.

What are they trying to do? I'm pretty convinced it isn't a "search for the truth"

Originally posted by ErtaiNaGia
LASER's *ARE* Electromagnetic Radiation... the point was that ANY precise addition of heat in pulses can cause thermodynamic expansion in any materials.

Ok, yeah I guess they are. But still, a radio transmission is very different from light. I see what you're saying, though.

I am not talking about heating the water, I am talking about heating sections of the tectonic plate so that it expands a bit, and using the mechanical waves from the expansion to set up the resonance.

I musunderstood then. Regardless, HAARPs signal, by the time it bounces back down to the ground, is much too weak to heat the tectonic plates.

And secondly, HAARP is a research project... it's not the only thing in the universe that is capable of sending up electromagnetic waves.

No argument there, but we were talking about HAARP.

Yeah, they were also being pretty darned lazy with their science, weren't they?

Oh, and basically, Comparing the technological sophistication of "Mythbusters" to a Secret Cabal of multinational Elite is... how do I put this... a really bad comparison.

You posted the vid...

reply to post by ErtaiNaGia


"I am not talking about heating the water, I am talking about heating sections of the tectonic plate so that it expands a bit, and using the mechanical waves from the expansion to set up the resonance. "

OK the Japanese quake was rocks moving along a 300km section of fault (or thereabouts).

If you could somehow know that, say, a 1% length of that was key to triggering the fault (God alone knows how) and that you needed to target an area 100m all round the 1km length.

That's a cylinder of rock 200m diameter and 3000m long. A volume of 94 million cubic meters. Call it a million.

You can work out just how much energy it would take to raise that volume of rock by just one degree K

Originally posted by stevcolx
This is interesting from another thread posted by balonO

Western Bankers Threatened Japan with HAARP Eco-Destruction a Year Before China Quakes

Constructed by the US Navy and Army in Alaska's bush country during the early 80s, the Pentagon's widely acknowledged high-tech "sky zapper" also can rattle the earth's substructure. But while the Defense Department acknowledges the program's existence, officials are keeping the "pandora's box" that is HAARP--High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program--classified.

Going to be hard to get info about this machine. Like Subject X says it is all speculative. Only because being classified nobody will be able to get the hard facts on what this HAARP can actually do.

Whoever wrote that blog needs to do a little reserch. There's heaps of real info available about HAARP. You can easily learn about pretty much any aspect of it you care to. The only things you can't find real info on are the things that have been made up by paranoid people, because there is no info on the made up stuff.

On 28 April 1997, Senator Sam Nunn of George organized a counterterrorism conference in Atlanta. During the Q&A session after US Defense Secretary William S. Cohen's presentation, Cohen indicates at least two--individuals? groups? countries?--have succeeded in creating HAARP-like weaponry: "Others are engaging even in an eco-type of terrorism whereby they can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the usnetic waves."


These guys all say 'Earthquakes'. Whay say it if there is nothing in it?

Again that Cohen quote. That quote was taken out of context. He was talking about "false threats", i.e. threats made about stuff that doesn't yet exist. Why do they say it? To scare you. Simple as that.

I don't know if it's been posted before, nor do I find Alex Collier's Andromedan talks beliveable (it just feels too much emotional and spiritual talk to me) but this is a crop from his 1995 lecture that I've been listened before and someone on youtube just bound the connection with the Japan disaster.. I think it's a good find, thou as I said, I couldn't find Collier's lectures believable since too much spiritualism involved.

www.youtube.com...

Please share your thoughts also on this finding..

reply to post by stevcolx


I would also like to point out a glaring flaw in this blog. The HAARP program was established in 1990 and construction did not begin until 1993. That is hardly the early 80s.

Originally posted by DairyChicken
I wonder more and more whether we ARE being taken for a ride, BUT the question isn't one of conspiracies, its one of conspiracists.

What are they trying to do? I'm pretty convinced it isn't a "search for the truth"

I wonder the same thing. I think this is the worst side effect of the internet's existence, that some deluded paranoid can post up a fantasy like the one we see about HAARP, backed up with a little bad science, out of context quotes, and some "connect the dots" speculation, and suddenly it's believed as truth by thousands of uninformed people. Next thing you know, the snowball effect takes over and there are hundreds of sites claiming the same thing, with more uninformed people believing it.

I don't really think that it's a malicious, intentional thing. Just uninformed people who are too lazy to search out the facts for themselves being sparked off by someone who knows just enough to be dangerous. Of course, there are those who start these things in order to make a few bucks off the fear of the uninformed. These people may or may not understand that they are spreading "disinformation", but don't much care either way as long as they're making a profit.

Originally posted by subject x

Originally posted by DairyChicken
I wonder more and more whether we ARE being taken for a ride, BUT the question isn't one of conspiracies, its one of conspiracists.

What are they trying to do? I'm pretty convinced it isn't a "search for the truth"

I wonder the same thing. I think this is the worst side effect of the internet's existence, that some deluded paranoid can post up a fantasy like the one we see about HAARP, backed up with a little bad science, out of context quotes, and some "connect the dots" speculation, and suddenly it's believed as truth by thousands of uninformed people. Next thing you know, the snowball effect takes over and there are hundreds of sites claiming the same thing, with more uninformed people believing it.

I don't really think that it's a malicious, intentional thing. Just uninformed people who are too lazy to search out the facts for themselves being sparked off by someone who knows just enough to be dangerous. Of course, there are those who start these things in order to make a few bucks off the fear of the uninformed. These people may or may not understand that they are spreading "disinformation", but don't much care either way as long as they're making a profit.

In the country of the blind, the one eyed man may be king, but if he's looking the wrong way, he's just as blind as his subjects.

o.k., Mr. X,
Let's start with your genius, dr. Dennis Papadopoulous.
He is the top science adviser for the American haarp.
Guess what? Japan has its own haarp. Dr. Papadopoulous has absolutely nothing to do with the japanese haarp.
You only get a 'grid' scalar clouds, as is shown on several web pages, when you are photographing very close to the transmitter. otherwise you get a line up, 90 degrees to the transmitter. ///////
There are at least 38 'haarps', all over the world.
Not just in Gakona Alaska.
Dr. Dennis Papadopoulous has no patents about haarp.
But Dr. Bernard Eastlund does.
Dr. Dennis Papadopoulous states that ' he couldn't see how a 'tesla coil could do anything', like make an earthquake, etc. Well, he's right, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the situation at hand.
A tesla coil is nothing like a magnifying transmitter. A magnifying transmitter can make earthquakes, etc.
And so can Dr. Bernard Eastlund's patents.
Dr. Dennis Papadpoulous might try becoming a little more relevant to the discussion at hand.
Or else, you might try getting a better expert.
And, as long as we're at it. A top earthquake predictor is predicting an earthquake on the american west coast on march 19th, or thereabouts.
Well, you might try cranking your neck up and watching the sky on that day, you might actually see some of the scalar clouds you claim don't exist.

Originally posted by roadtoad
o.k., Mr. X,
Let's start with your genius, dr. Dennis Papadopoulous.
He is the top science adviser for the American haarp.
Guess what? Japan has its own haarp. Dr. Papadopoulous has absolutely nothing to do with the japanese haarp.

So, you're saying that Japan caused it's own earthquake, and subsequent radiation problem?
That seems very unlikely, to say the least.

You only get a 'grid' scalar clouds, as is shown on several web pages, when you are photographing very close to the transmitter. otherwise you get a line up, 90 degrees to the transmitter. ///////

Ok, If you say so.

There are at least 38 'haarps', all over the world.
Not just in Gakona Alaska.

Yes, I'm aware of this. That doesn't mean any of them can cause eartquakes.

Dr. Dennis Papadopoulous has no patents about haarp.
But Dr. Bernard Eastlund does.
Dr. Dennis Papadopoulous states that ' he couldn't see how a 'tesla coil could do anything', like make an earthquake, etc. Well, he's right, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the situation at hand.
A tesla coil is nothing like a magnifying transmitter. A magnifying transmitter can make earthquakes, etc.
And so can Dr. Bernard Eastlund's patents.

Please explain to me how Dr. Eastlund's patents (US Patents #4,686,605, #4,712,155, and #5,038,664), can cause an earthquake. I can't see it, myself.
You can find them here by putting the patent numbers into the search box.

Dr. Dennis Papadpoulous might try becoming a little more relevant to the discussion at hand.
Or else, you might try getting a better expert.

I might say the same about you. Of course, Dr. Papadpoulous doesn't have the benefit of "Indian skills", so he has to make do with science.
I'd have asked Dr. Eastlund himself if he were still around.

And, as long as we're at it. A top earthquake predictor is predicting an earthquake on the american west coast on march 19th, or thereabouts.
Well, you might try cranking your neck up and watching the sky on that day, you might actually see some of the scalar clouds you claim don't exist.

I'll be sure to do so. However, here in Florida I'm probably too far away from HAARP to actually see them, as you mentioned earlier.

reply to post by DairyChicken


If you want to change my mind you will need facts not a patronising attitude, we all have different experiences and knowledge with only one person coming across as arrogant and ignorant. In mathematics multiplication is used a lot, a scaler is one type of multiplication en.wikipedia.org...(mathematics). In terms of scalar weapons it has been generally applied to all forms of electromagnetic weapons such as are microwaves, lasers, LF, HF, EMP and any thing else that requires electricity to harm, kill, destroy or disrupt www.bibliotecapleyades.net... . More specifically it relates to the work by James Maxwell and Nicola Tesla in terms of scalar wave and scalar fields en.wikipedia.org... . Forward gain is one important aspect to this technology, but there is more to it.

You know the frequencies at which HAARP works

For the site at Alaska:

It is designed to transmit a narrow beam of high power radio signals in the 2.8 to 10 MHz frequency range... ELF signals are generated in the ionosphere at an altitude of around 100 km. Frequencies ranging from below one Hz to about 20 kHz can be generated through this ionospheric interaction process.

As for how much power:

Approximately 10 million Watts of prime power will be required when the transmitter system is operating at full power. (3.6MW) ... By the time it reaches the ionosphere, the intensity of the HF signal is less than 3 microwatts (0.000003 watt) per cm2 ... Under optimum conditions, signals generated using ionospheric interaction techniques may be measured in the tens of pT range and tend to be strongest at frequencies around 2 kHz.

www.haarp.alaska.edu...
www.haarp.alaska.edu...

In regards to your assertion that haarp cannot affect the magnetosphere here is one paper that proves that false carbon.ucdenver.edu... . The term 'wave injection' is what is used to describe this effect. On the second page of the paper there are also some diagrams that show how the haarp facility in Alaska can reach Japan in a single hop.

These results are consistent with past studies which show magnetospheric amplification and triggering being observed predominantly within the plasmasphere ... Thus, local HAARP signal strength does not seem to be the sole determining factor in exciting magnetospheric amplification. The relationship between HAARP ELF radiation as observed above (e.g., on satellites) and below (i.e., on the ground) the lower ionosphere is not well understood and could well exhibit an inverse relationship under certain conditions. ... In their analysis of Siple data, Carlson et al. [1985] showed that magnetospheric amplification and triggering of emissions can be highly dependent on the slope of frequencytime ramps ... The electrons involved in the amplification of the injected waves must have had energies ranging from a few tens to 100 keV with trapping wave amplitudes in the range 0.1– 0.4 pT ... The observations underline the significance of frequency-time signatures and ‘‘active’’ frequency ranges in the wave-particle interaction.

One theory that has been proposed in how haarp or similar facilities can cause earthquakes is through directing high amounts of power into the ground to heat it up and cause expansion. Another theory is through inducing oscillations into the earth's magnetic field that can result in subsequent shaking of the earth's crust below. Common phenomena associated with suspected haarp induced earthquakes are the presence of 'earthquake lights', which indicates some relationship with the geomagnetic field as demonstrated with the Aurora lights. A shallow epicentre is also another common trait.

I think you got it backwards, you're the one with the patronizing attitude.
I'm trying to be very nice to you, except when you get patronizing, of course.
Oh, you're from florida. There's a haarp in puerto rico. Katrina was originally headed for Crawford, Texas.
I watched the scalar clouds from puerto rico turn Katrina around, practically 180 degrees, and have it pass over New Orleans.

And the earthquake predictor guy, who is right 80% of the time, and predicted the 1989 world series earthquake, is saying that march 19-26 is the time to watch.
And yes, weather permitting, you'll be able to see scalar clouds from there.
I'll predict that, you'll see scalar clouds from different directions on those days, transmitters trying to cancel the effects of the other.

video.foxbusiness.com...

Originally posted by roadtoad
I think you got it backwards, you're the one with the patronizing attitude.

You're probably right about that, and I apologize.
It's kinda hard not to, though, when your whole side of the debate is based on what I have to consider unverifiable Indian skills. You post pictures of what, to me, look like natural cloud formations and say they're scalar clouds. I can't debate your source, as it seems to be a different personal view of reality than mine, and most other people's.

From what I can find, reseach wise, extreme claims of HAARPs abilities and scalar weaponry is entirely based on bad science and groundless speculation. From what I can find about "supernatural" abilities, like seeing technological influence in normal clouds, I can only see them as, pardon the phrase, hooey.

I'm not sure we can have a meaninful debate when we seem to inhabit two different realities. I just don't have a point of reference to work from. I'll try not to patronize you, but you have to understand some small frustration on my part.