Vehicle Transportation without GASOLINE !!!

reply to post by boncho

Backyard refinery my ass. It shows in the diagram the distillation of an ether by-product. For anyone that doesn't know what ether is, it likes to go boom.....

Forgive me but I'll stick to buying Shell's gas.

You are correct. Handling ANY of the (C-H)^n is asking for trouble if you do not know exactly what you are doing. A local has a co-op that does the used cooking oil to biodiesel and THAT is about the safest.

I have seen Hydrogen tanks go through a brick wall and other nasty chemical factory accidents. That is why I suggested THORIUM NUCLEAR. It is a heck of a lot SAFER. Around here if some one screws up they could burn down the whole area. We have too many pine forests and too much wind to be playing around with fire.

Also one accident and forget it folks the Gubbermint will outlaw all home energy projects.

reply to post by crimvelvet


Yes, Thorium, what a great idea, let everyone create Uranium in their backyard....

This thread just travels from one level of stupid to another. It is no wonder people think the energy industry is so filled with conspiracy, because there are people conspiring to provide faulty ideas and faulty information as to its destruction. Legitimate alternative energies get as much plug time on ATS as a local weather forecast, while the crackpot ideas are treated like major stories.

Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by BearTruth
Ok, guys, I think I have the ultimate answer...www.wired.com... I have never posted a link before, so if this doesn't work, blame my inexperience.

This would be killing two birds with one stone. Eliminating the absolute abundance of human waste, and producing usable energy.

I suggest everyone read the article linked above. It is about the only good idea in this thread (or at least the only idea not misrepresented)

This if anything, deserves its own thread to be discussed.

Imagine what cities would smell and look like if all cars run on that fuel. Not a nice thought, I think that unless it is able to produce very minimal, harmless, odorless, waste, then it could be an idea. However I don't know how long it would last on a tank, and I would not want to tank that car.

Another interesting technology is the Stirling Engine (heat engine). It's making a HUGE comeback.

If you have a heat source you plop that engine over it and it will run. If you have a bucket of ice you plop that engine over it and it will run.

All it needs is a temperature difference to operate from air expending/contracting from the temperature difference.

If all the automobiles in America burning gasoline for power had Stirling Engines to take the heat produced and turn that back into power...we'd cut our oil needs by 1/4th.

Stirling Engines are in satellites in space, submarines under the ocean...and are about to make a massive comeback from the 1800's.

www.stirlingenergy.com/how-it-works.htm

Electric automobiles battery systems can self charge quicker with Stirling Engines taking waste heat and putting it back into batteries as power. Even the Peltier Modules can be used to take Heat and create electricity.

Technology from the late 1890's...died off when the oil boom hit.....it's all coming back.

We don't need Gasoline in America. We're all suffering and the technology suppressed because our Dear Leaders are hellbent on taking over Earth first.

Originally posted by iamaperson

Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by BearTruth
Ok, guys, I think I have the ultimate answer...www.wired.com... I have never posted a link before, so if this doesn't work, blame my inexperience.

This would be killing two birds with one stone. Eliminating the absolute abundance of human waste, and producing usable energy.

I suggest everyone read the article linked above. It is about the only good idea in this thread (or at least the only idea not misrepresented)

This if anything, deserves its own thread to be discussed.

Imagine what cities would smell and look like if all cars run on that fuel. Not a nice thought, I think that unless it is able to produce very minimal, harmless, odorless, waste, then it could be an idea. However I don't know how long it would last on a tank, and I would not want to tank that car.

Based on your expertise in the field?

I wasn't suggesting running Methane in the car. However, this has been done and is used in many places in the world. If you have natural gas in your home than you are already using methane. And the smell in that gas is added, hydrogen sulfide, to alert people to leaks. If you have a problem with Methane, you have a problem with just about every single place in North America, because its use is widespread.

I assume you don't understand Methane extraction, there are no feces in the gas that is produced. The waste is fermented and the gas is syphoned off. They are using this technology in waste dumps throughout the world to produce enough energy to power the plant and even extra to sell to the community. This is a promising process that is in its infancy and is most likely an energy tech that you should keep your eye on.

reply to post by Pervius

Technology from the late 1890's...died off when the oil boom hit.....it's all coming back.

It never "died off", it has been used since it was invented in widespread applications, you even mentioned some of them.

We don't need Gasoline in America. We're all suffering and the technology suppressed because our Dear Leaders are hellbent on taking over Earth first.

Really, I'm pretty sure alternatives are out there, I know about them, you know about them? They must not be very good at suppression.

Electric automobiles battery systems can self charge quicker with Stirling Engines taking waste heat and putting it back into batteries as power. Even the Peltier Modules can be used to take Heat and create electricity.

I'd like to know your design specs on this apparatus. Did you plan to squeeze the Stirling engine next to the LiNi and the electric drive motor?

If all the automobiles in America burning gasoline for power had Stirling Engines to take the heat produced and turn that back into power...we'd cut our oil needs by 1/4th.

Yes, if we used steam engine and never used oil than are needs would have been cut by 100%. I think you should read up more on stirling engines. They are great for many number a things, but running cars are not one of them. For one, without an electric conversion, storage and an electric drive they require 20 mins or so to warm up.


No one ever "suppressed" Stirling engines, they have been well used and well researched in the past century. To imply otherwise is stupid.

Originally posted by BearTruth
Ok, guys, I think I have the ultimate answer...www.wired.com... I have never posted a link before, so if this doesn't work, blame my inexperience.

This would be killing two birds with one stone. Eliminating the absolute abundance of human waste, and producing usable energy.

most excellent idea and link.
why are we using coal or other resources
to power electric generating plants when
we could use what's in our own sewer system.
star 4 that find

Originally posted by network dude
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/87d80ae74505.jpg[/atsimg]
photo credit to: www.lowtechmagazine.com...

now that is a punny picture. A 79 pinto with a bomb on the back of it. Well, maybe not a bomb, but a boiler used incorrectly will be just that, and anyone who is older than 40 knows about the volatility that is the 1979 Ford Pinto.
At least the put the ignition source close to the gas tank so the end would be quick and painless.

dude, the gas tank would be empty of fuel.
and that's why there are blueprints so you
get the design right to increase safety.

Originally posted by boncho
I am going to comment on the thread you linked (because burning trees as fuel is not worth commenting on).

well I can see you didn't read the article before commenting
or you would have seen that this works for other organic
material as well as you are not stuck with burning just
wood for a source.

Buy you go ahead and make Shell rich
by giving them all your extra cash.

Originally posted by crimvelvet

Plus, how many small communities have a spare $25M lying around ??? As these people want their money up front.

Actually it comes out to $2,500/ household. That is a six month electric bill for me. I would GLADLY find a way to come up with that money if I did not have to pay $300 to $400 a month for energy any more!

actually you might be bordering on naive.
It will costs a lot more than $2,500 a household.
That is just for the unit alone. Now add on top
of that.

1) A storage facility to house it (over a million)
2) Cables to connect all the homes to the power source (over $10M)
3) Poles to keep these cables off the ground so they don't get grounded. (over $5M)
4) Transformers and circuit breakers locally (over $5M)
5) Permits and licenses to construct (over $1M)
6) Purchasing easements on others private property (over $10M)
7) Individual unit meters for user consumption (over $10M)
8) Construction crew labor setting all this up (over $50M)
9) Constant crew maintenance (over $1M, annually)
10) Trucks for crew to maintain system (over $1M)

and this is just for starters not counting the unknowns.

Now your $25M project just turned into a $94M + project.
Now your actual cost per household goes up to almost
$10K each.

Originally posted by Student X
reply to post by boondock-saint

 

The only solution is for humanity to step outside the narrow little box it thinks in and reach its psychic potential so that we can learn the art of psychic teleportation, otherwise known as psychoportation or jaunting. Reaching for mundane solutions, such as wood burning engines, will only exacerbate the spiritual weakness that is the root cause of our various problems. Of course humanity is so incredibly ignorant of parapsychology and so incredibly mislead by materialistic science that its a long shot. But then again, everything is a long shot at this point.

edit on 7-3-2011 by Student X because: (no reason given)

Actually, Info on exactly how to do psychic teleportation has recently been released, but unfortunately it takes quite a while to advance to the level where you can use it.

Anyone interested in learning how would do well to check out the book called: "Miracle Mastery". It's one hell of a resource on psychic development, and it gives the how-to's for lots of other cool stuff too. Plus, you can get the first three chapters for free.

www.allthingspsychic.com...

- Wildcat

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by boncho
I am going to comment on the thread you linked (because burning trees as fuel is not worth commenting on).

well I can see you didn't read the article before commenting
or you would have seen that this works for other organic
material as well as you are not stuck with burning just
wood for a source.

Buy you go ahead and make Shell rich
by giving them all your extra cash.

There are a lot of problems with using wood for fuel. For one thing, how long it takes for it to renew. Number two, is the amount of available energy in wood compared to what is in a litre of hydrocarbons. In a pound of wood there is about 2-3 KWH (those are under prime lab conditions) and in pound of gas there is about 10KWH.

Meaning that even if the cumbustion engine is running at 30% efficiency it still outperforms wood. And you don't have to worry about that whole tricky conversion process, or a giant bioreactor being strapped to your car.

Biomass fuel from waste is another story, and I already talked about it in this thread, but you are talking about wood though. And even in that article they explain why it would not be a feasible alternative.

Look up fuel created by organisms. Genetically engineered bacteria are on their way to produce fuel from sugar and starches. If you post something regarding that technology I will support it. Because it makes sense. Putting poplar in your Volvo does not make sense.

Originally posted by boncho
Putting poplar in your Volvo does not make sense.

like I said in the OP
this was only posted as a quick fix
for those people who do not have
chemical engineering degrees.

it is simple, yet effective substitute
for gasoline when it gets too expensive
to buy.

It is something that most yard mechanics
can make to power their vehicles. It'll do
in a pinch. And plus it came from FEMA
and the UN. And credited at the bottom
of those pdf's were a very long list of PHD's
from many academic institutions.

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by boncho
Putting poplar in your Volvo does not make sense.

like I said in the OP
this was only posted as a quick fix
for those people who do not have
chemical engineering degrees.

it is simple, yet effective substitute
for gasoline when it gets too expensive
to buy.

It is something that most yard mechanics
can make to power their vehicles. It'll do
in a pinch. And plus it came from FEMA
and the UN. And credited at the bottom
of those pdf's were a very long list of PHD's
from many academic institutions.

Okay, number 1, I never questioned whether it worked or not. Number 2, reading the below quote it doesn't sound like you are telling people it's a back up plan. Sounds like you are telling them "Yes, you can tell the oil companies to shove it." Meaning they don't have to buy gas from the station anymore, ever again, etc. etc.

Yes, you can tell the oil companies to shove it.

There are great fuel alternatives out there, there are also great ones that you can DIY. But if you are trying to sell people on the idea that they don't have to go buy gas anymore if they buy some kit somewhere, you are marketing for any company that sells the kits.

Also, this area is rife with fraud. So if you suggest something to people, whether it be in forums or in person, I think it is just common decency for people to know what they are getting and know who to buy it from, without some grand expectation of living off the grid without doing their homework on it.

reply to post by boncho

just FYI

you were the one who brought up
the word "Kit"

not I

so don't accuse me of being a fraudster
trying to make a quick buck by selling
something.

And if I had my way and the means,

I'd NEVER buy another drop of gasoline.

I am not fond of the exchange rate:
Blood for Oil

Originally posted by boondock-saint
reply to post by boncho

 

just FYI

you were the one who brought up
the word "Kit"

not I

so don't accuse me of being a fraudster
trying to make a quick buck by selling
something.

And if I had my way and the means,

I'd NEVER buy another drop of gasoline.

I am not fond of the exchange rate:
Blood for Oil

No no, I wasn't accusing you of trying to sell kits. Although, I am suspect of some people on here. What I am saying is there are many people selling these kits, some are legitimate and some are false. When you make threads about these technologies I think it is important to outline just exactly what they do. And if they are working non-working, proven or theory.

Also, if there are reputable people selling these DIY projects, than it might be good to direct people to a reputable place to get them. Perpetuating the idea that it is effortless to be independent from oil is bad. It is not impossible, but as of right now there is no quick fix.

The reason I am adamant on how people represent cheap and so called 'free' energy on this site is because this is a place for fraudster to viral market their crap. It also leaves people with the impression that the bogus sites out there selling bunk are legit.

No offence to you. I just like it when we are clear on the energy issue, the thought of people getting ripped off when they are trying to do something that will save them money, is infuriating.

I recall on that show "The Colony" when they ran out of fuel they created a wood-gas contraption to fuel their generator. It seemed to work pretty well, and since they had like half an acre of old wooden pallets next to the building they had plenty of wood to use for it. I think their biggest problem was getting the engine to start using only wood gas. They ended up using just enough petroleum fuel to start the engine and then switch over to wood gas and shut off the gasoline line. It kept running just fine.

reply to post by boncho


Exactly, based on my expertise on the field-that is all I can give you, sorry. I was just trying to imagine the idea of running your car using your own waste, to me that does not sound like a pleasant smell, of-course I probably am wrong, but at-least I must be somewhat right in assuming you wouldn't want to tank that thing?

"I assume you don't understand Methane extraction, there are no feces in the gas that is produced." You would be correct in assuming that. I thought I said something about the possibility of the waste of the waste being clean, however I am still a bit uncertain. You are saying that in extracting methane you extract all the feces?

Originally posted by iamaperson
reply to post by boncho

 

"I assume you don't understand Methane extraction, there are no feces in the gas that is produced." You would be correct in assuming that. I thought I said something about the possibility of the waste of the waste being clean, however I am still a bit uncertain. You are saying that in extracting methane you extract all the feces?

I'm sorry if I got confused. I must have assumed you were thinking about the other article posted about the Jail in Africa using human waste, and how that would apply to the car. If you were referring to the original article about the tank on the car than that is a different scenario. And I can clear it up.

For Methane production from human or animal waste it needs to be done in a specific area were contamination of ground water can be controlled. It is not really a "home grown" operation, because of the potential for deadly bacteria to form. But, if done in a proper facility it could be harvested, pressurized and then used in cars. Natural Gas that is used now is comprised of a high percentage of Methane.

Of course, to use Methane from human and animal waste, this process would be centralized, so if you ran your car on it, you would have to fill it up at a station. They do have natural gas stations and a lot of cabs in Canada run off of it as well as buses. As far as personal car use, it is used more in the Northern areas.

So that type of energy (to create at home) for an individual is not really feasible, but it is something you can look into for your community and write your local politicians about, if you think it will benefit your community. The best example so far are landfills that create energy to power themselves and local residences. I haven't heard of anyone in the west using sewage in this process yet, but it sounds interesting to say the least.

reply to post by iamaperson


After re-reading your question I would like to add to the methane production. When the gas is being formed with the breakdown of waste, it releases into the air (which is capped, covered). What happens is pressure builds up within the space that the gas is forming and gas is funnelled into a pipeline which goes through a compressor. So at the end of it, you have gas with no solid matter (poo) and it gets stored in tanks under high pressure.

I hope that clears it up and I apologize if I was harsh, originally.