I Don't Understand...

I Don't Understand the animosity, the spewing of bile, the utter contempt.

Political division is a consequence of politics.

Hatred is a conseqeunce of people.

When did it become about the individual, and not about society?

After WW2, my government had the vision of social fairness, equality, free education and medical care - nobody moaned about it, or cried about "their money, and I aint subsidizing (name your group) or was at all concerned about anything but making our country better.

That's not a bad idea or ideal - yes, it has a touch of socialism, and that's not a bad thing either.

At the same time, my country is a tiny little island, with a disproportionate amount of power, thanks largely to the fact that we raped the known world for a few hundred years - but so did Spain, France and Holland, not to mention Germany.

The problem is that it is no longer acceptable to rape the known world - some people accept that, and some people say "sod it, I pay war taxes, might as well use them"

Understand, that the US and UK fighting in foreign countries, stealing resources, and getting rich has consequences - and they ike it that way, because that gives them an excuse to demand more of the public milk.

Imagine that amount of money being spent for the good of all, on a social basis - or even half that money...

That would also generate work, jobs and stimulate the economy - and actually do some good at the same time.

All parties need to stop bickering, and work together for the greater good, rather than their own - and that goes for people, local authorities, governments, the UN, every single body.

Until people can come together, work together and create for the common good, we will always see war of one sort or another.

And it shouldn't make a difference what your political affiliation is - it's about humans, all of us, not just when it suits us.

These are depressing times and when we should be at our most united we are being divided left right and centre. Through religion , gender, generation, social class and politically. It seems when times are tough we are encouraged to turn on one another.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


I understand your point, but I would argue that it is when times are GOOD that we turn against each other - during war we pull together.

Maybe that's what "They" were counting on...

Budski great post

The concept of the individual vs society is probably the greatest issue of the century (ies) - but its not new - sociologists have argued over the concept ad nauseum (cf Durkheim, Locke, Mill, Marx and Engles et al )

Altruism would be the concept of the individual in or out of society that works for the greater good - and something either not often realized or if offered is ridiculed or derided.

We live in a materialistic society ruled by our own atavistic or jealous gains and desires - but im afraid that is the human disease.

If one was to work back to the roots of humanity you could even say that the possession of fire vs dispossession was the first evidence of that we call selfishness - or natural selection,

Just a few thoughts

cheers mate

reply to post by Silk


Very true...

My argument is that until we can move past base/selfish thoughts and desires as a species, we are more or less doomed.

reply to post by budski


Doom of a society possibly - but perhaps not as a species. When looking at this issue I tend to think macro rather than Micro. The Roman Empire fell but humanity persisted - and if we can get past the right barriers humanity has infinite possibilities.

Originally posted by Silk
reply to post by budski

 

Doom of a society possibly - but perhaps not as a species. When looking at this issue I tend to think macro rather than Micro. The Roman Empire fell but humanity persisted - and if we can get past the right barriers humanity has infinite possibilities.

The Roman Empire didn't have the capability to destroy the planet.

And the barriers are the way we live - we need a total shift on thoughts, motivation and self on a non-selfish level.

Until we can work together, we are doomed.

reply to post by budski


I would say we have been encouraged to have extrinsic values ever since the days of Thatcherism. " No such thing as society" and the yuppie culture maybe had an effect on what we currently see? I dont know but i see a change that I dont like.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


Personally, I think this has been happening since WW1 - then WW" brought about even more reconstruction, and it snowballed from there.

Truth is, imo, war makes money and perhaps more importantly, power, for some people and that's why we find ourselves where we are.

Make no mistake, WW2 is still going on in many ways and on many levels...

I know I tend to be ignored, but I will chime in again. We DO have options for this planet. As long as we are divided by any "ism," and that includes nationalism, we are conquered.

I have placed the link to The End of Entropy in my sig now, and also the link to The Ethical Planetarian Party Platform. EoE is the foundational document to the EPP and is best read first.

Let's take back this planet!

reply to post by budski


I would argue that the fall of the Roman Empire did destroy the planet - or rather the evolution of the known world - at that point in time. However humans are a resilient species and we adapt and over come.

To view humans as suicidal and our ability to effect the extinction of our species in the light of the last 30 years is to ignore our potential under MAD to actually achieve that in less than the time it takes to write this post - therefore in my book there is the ability of humanity to overcome its petty differences and survive.

I would direct you to the events of the Cuban Missile Crises - more especially to the Pentagon Papers to see how close a difference in ideology can bring us to the brink of total annihilation - and just how the human spirit can prevae and change what might have been a significant course of action.

reply to post by Amaterasu


I think you are spot on about "ism"

I sometimes think that "ism" is just another way to divide us, even while they ram PC down our necks.

PC has its points, but it highlights differences rather than similarities.

We're all the same - and the pursuit of things is going to destroy us...

This is a pleasant fiction. All I mean by that is, while I of course agree with you Bud. When you stop to ponder how easy this came to mind for you. Then you should be able to see the real problematics of this situation.
A situation that only gets worse, when it could very easily be made better. Is proof beyond any doubt that evil truly does exist in the heart of mankind. Don't get me wrong. I'm not preaching here. It's just all so simple and yet, never one step in the right direction. We hear all the promises once every four yrs. So the ruling class do know what would be the best way to go. Concerning the whole of humanity. Sorry I'm just completely pesimistic about any dreams for society. Because I really believe they must have a different plan for us. Most prolly isn't anything nice either.

reply to post by budski


Glad you agree, budski. I abhor teamism, partyism, statism, etc.ism. Humans are a beautiful species yoked by money, and I have spent my life trying to find a solution to the problems we see as Humanity. I think I have it.

Thus The End of Entropy and the Ethical Planetarian Party. [smile]

Originally posted by randyvs
This is a pleasant fiction. All I mean by that is, while I of course agree with you Bud. When you stop to ponder how easy this came to mind for you. Then you should be able to see the real problematics of this situation.
A situation that only gets worse, when it could very easily be made better. Is proof beyond any doubt that evil truly does exist in the heart of mankind. Don't get me wrong. I'm not preaching here. It's just all so simple and yet, never one step in the right direction. We hear all the promises once every four yrs. So the ruling class do know what would be the best way to go. Concerning the whole of humanity. Sorry I'm just completely pesimistic about any dreams for society. Because I really believe they must have a different plan for us. Most prolly isn't anything nice either.

I would not say necessarily that the evil is in Humanity. I strongly suspect ET involvement based on a number of things.

Humanity is twisted by its yoke of money, but Humanity freed would blossom. Let's give it a chance.

EDIT to add: Let's take this planet from them. See my links.

reply to post by Amaterasu

Humanity is twisted by its yoke of money, but Humanity freed would blossom. Let's give it a chance.

Well if it were up to us, it prolly would have been realised a long time ago. ET? You won't ever get anywhere with
that. Like you've shot yourself in the foot, right out of the gate. You have to get real first.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Humanity is twisted by its yoke of money, but Humanity freed would blossom. Let's give it a chance.

Well if it were up to us, it prolly would have been realised a long time ago. ET? You won't ever get anywhere with
that. Like you've shot yourself in the foot, right out of the gate. You have to get real first.

ET not withstanding, read what I offer. I think the Sumerian tablets are an awesome source to suggest ET involvement, BTW, but you don't have to believe in ET to bring a better world into being.

I tend to bang on a bit about secular society, but a secular society isn't the problem.

The problem is that people have replaced "god" with money/power, and then used the bible (or whichever book) to justify their actions.

That's not politics, that's religious war by another name.

In proper politics, where the good of the people is cncerned, people can agree to disagree.

Not so in modern politics.

I hear a lot of our American cousins talk about the separation of church and state - I ask one question; "When did any president get elected on a platform of atheism"?

No, they talk about "god" and "jesus" and then do exactly what they want, knowing that people will fall for it...

It's a #e state of affairs, and it needs to change.

Originally posted by budski
I tend to bang on a bit about secular society, but a secular society isn't the problem.

The problem is that people have replaced "god" with money/power, and then used the bible (or whichever book) to justify their actions.

I agree that secular society is not the issue. I do agree that money IS the issue. I also agree people use the Bible to justify (or absolve themselves of - as in, "I'll be forgiven, so it doesn't matter") very poor behavior.

I disagree that the problem is in any substitution... Given that I am a-religious, though very spiritual, perhaps this is a bias on my part. I can agree to disagree on this point. [smile]

Since the issue is money, let's get rid of it. I offer a way to do that in my links. (And by money, I mean shells, barter, coin, bills, plastic, electronic funds...)