Anyone Still Think Israel Wants Peace?

Netanyahu is trying to decide if he should allow "temporary" Palestinian borders. Liebermen has said publically thewre will be no peace.. Israel continues to extend their borders deeper into territory intended for a Palestinian state. Forget that most of Israel is Jewish as the religion of the people has nothing to do with the actions of the State. Israel, like all other countries are bound by International Law. When the UN allows Israel to to flaunt the law they, in doing so lessen the force of the law. Is Israel being held to a higher standard then other countries? Of course not! They are simply being asked to conduct the business of their State in the same manner as other States. Israel has absolutely no legitimitcy beyond the borders they declared in May of 1948 when they declared their State. Those would be the 1948 borders. Only through the AGREEMENT of the Palestinians can their borders be extended to the 1967 armistice lines. Although by the end of this year some 150 countries will have recognized a Palestinian State along the 1967 lines. The Palestinians will certainly agree to this and Israel will be legitimate up to those lines. Too bad if settlements fall within the Palestinian State.

Israel has many problems which only peace will solve. Iran will build a naval base in Syria which is perfectly legal. Russia will arm Syria with surface to air missles, also legal. Egypt is in the throes of an emerging democracy which when fully formed in the next few years may wish to regotiate their peace accord with Israel Most likely most of the Arab countries will transform their countries into some sort of limited democracy which will make the Middle East less dangerous for Israel. It is however, my opinion that unless Israel makes a just peace with the Palestinians they will be in for a very rough road. My Israeli friends don't seem to be worried as they falsely believe Israels military might will see them through any military crisis. Fact of the matter is Israel can be destroyed militarily before they or the US could stop the agressors. Stop and think.... Iran could fire a missle every 12 minutes from each missle battery on Iranian soil. Syria can literally rain scuds on Israel. Hezbollah with 60,000 rockets could do severe damage. If Egypt gets into it ...well you get the picture. Fact is with all of Americas military might they can't even beat the Afganis. During The last Lebanon war Israel failed to attain even one of her stated objectives and therefore won nothing in Lebanon. Hezbollah forced Israel to accept a "cease fire". Sure Israel has Nuclear weapons and no one doubts the Israelis will use them. Since Iran, Syria and Hezbollah know this for a certainty they will probably use chemical and biological tipped warheads.

I for one hopes it nevers comes to this and I know it will not IF Israel makes peace NOW.

reply to post by gem_man


In response to the question in the thread title.

When has Israel ever wanted peace? they say it a lot, but take actions that in now way will help bring peace. If anything, Israel is the biggest obstacle to peace in the region, ignoring sanctions, attacking it's neighbors, invading territory, using banned weapons, etc etc etc.

the regime in charge does not want peace and are doing everything they can to avoid it and prolong the situation, making it increasingly worse, which lends public support to the "protective" measures they are "forced" to take.

It's sickening and any other country would NOT be allowed to act in such a manner. The US has invaded countries for less.

But we all lose because some how, magically, being against the genocidal tendencies of the ruling elite in Israel is some how racist and anti-semitic. I'd love for someone to explain that to me, but they won't, they'll call me a racist as always.

Here's a news flash from Egypt:

Egypt's new PM resigns.....

www.newser.com...

Democratic elections ARE in 6 months

reply to post by gem_man


As per usual you ask some guiding question ("Why is Israel so evil?" "How does the world allow Israel to murder children?" "Why do Jews make matzos out of Palestinian children's blood?"), and then kindly provide relevant, mildly relevant and completely irrelevant facts, all of which are, of course, completely one sided.

So let's analyze what you said:

1) Netanyahu and Liberman don't want peace- By taking their words and actions out of context you do indeed make it seem like they don't want peace, well done. However you seem to be ignoring the fact that the Palestinians have been as reluctant to reach an agreement, if not more.

Both sides want peace, it's just that both of them want to get the best terms out of it, and it'll probably take some time for them to reach a middle ground..

And, yeah, Liberman's a dick.

2) Israel continues to extend their borders into Palestine- Oh please, give me break! By how much? 1 Meter a day? Come on... There's no freeze, and that's bad as it is, but there's no real expansion as the IDF and the police take down all the new and unauthorized settlements, and in fact the settlers are planning on having a "day of rage" for that..

Do you really think it's going to be easy to evacuate 400,000 people? Do you really think it was easy to freeze building for as long as he did? Netanyahu has an opposition that instead of cooperating with him are just waiting for him to lose support and fall..

3) The U.N is weak and is not enforcing resolution 242- Yeah, the U.N is weak, maybe if it didn't let Lybia run its Human's Rights Comity, or if it started solving real problems in the world it would be a force to be reckoned with.
But it didn't, and it doesn't. It's a joke.

Also, this offer has been on the table for 40 years, and suddenly now everyone's all for it. Where was the world 40 years ago, when Israel was willing to return all the territories in return for peace? Where was the international pressure?
Why did Israel have to go through 3 wars, lose countless soldiers and civilians, suffer from all kinds of attacks, and now, when it finally has the upper hand, *now* everyone's so eager to enforce 242?

How hypocritical is that?

Also, completely irrelevant to your question.

4) Israel has no right to anything beyond the 47' lines- Why does the 49' armistice depend on the Palestinians?

Also, completely irrelevant to your question.

5) Israel will lose the war- Mmm, wars being what they are, there's really no way to know. The question is why would anyone want to attack Israel? Do you really think anyone cares about the Palestinians? Hardly...
Hamas and Hezbollah get paid by Iran, so they fight the Israelis "for the sake of the Palestinians", the PA gets paid by America, so they make peace "for the sake of the Palestinians"...

Don't be naive, the Arab nations couldn't care less about the Palestinians, and they have nothing to gain from going against Israel.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Didn't it freeze the settlements in the west bank for almost a year a short while ago? Didn't it evacuate its settlements from the Gaza strip?

What have the Palestinians done for peace? Agreed to stop shooting at Israeli civilians?

No, really, tell me, what have they done for peace?

No other country acts in this manner? *Every* other country in the world that has been put in the same situation as Israel has acted either the same way or worse- America in Iraq and Afghanistan, Turkey vs. the Kurds and Armenians, China and Tibet, Russia and Caucasus, The Serbians..
Every single nation.

Sorry to burst your bubble, my friend.

That's not to say any of this is right.. It's all #ed up.. But don't think for a second that Israel is the only one to ever break sanctions in this region, or use banned weapons, or generally do wrong.
And when the U.N was ignored by Arab nations in a way that hurt Israel, do you really think anyone gave a #?

reply to post by gem_man


Perhaps you need to watch this:

www.youtube.com...

then watch this:

www.youtube.com...

but don't forget to read this:

translate.google.de... l=de&tl=en&hl&ie=UTF-8

www.newser.com...

and then there's this:

www.youtube.com...

We are all in trouble.....and you want to target Israel?

Try looking in to your own backyard!!!

reply to post by Eliad

And when the U.N was ignored by Arab nations in a way that hurt Israel, do you really think anyone gave a #?

No instead it got together with the US, Canada, and most of Europe... Then they cried "anti-semitism" through their controlled media, and then retaliated and bombed the # out of innocent people recklessly without ever caring for consequence. UN resolution denouncing their actions? No problem, the mighty US will veto it...

It goes both ways Eliad...



Magnum

What's done in the past had already been done.

What's happened, already happened.

We can no long 'unchange' the past, but we can still alter the future.

But if even you and I cannot agree on these above-mentioned facts, then what's there for hope of peace in Israel-Palestinian conflict?

Israel gained an illusionary 'upper-hand' or not is not an impediment to peace proposals for negotiations.

400.000 settlers on occupied terrorities to be removed is not a challenge to Israel whom had shipped much more after WW2 from Europe, and even during wartime.

'Days of rage' by those 400,000 settlers would be miniscule in comparisons to millions screaming for peace from both sides, when they too will file for 'days of rage' as is within their rights.

If the Israeli regime continues on its nazi zionist indoctrinated path, it will face wrath not only from jews and palestine, but from world's humanity whom are sick and tired of being dragged into wars and its suffering side effects not of its doing.

Let's end the bloodshed and discriminations. It can only happen and begin with you and I...

Israel is a war mongering terrorist state. It makes me sick that all these morons in the US think that it's a legitimate country and that they deserve our aid.

reply to post by bluemirage5


I watched the whole video.

Scary stuff.

I check my PH and record it I will check my logs to see if there are any anomalies. I no I added alot of lime last year though.

Scary...

They should just let a greater Isreal be formed, give the palestinians citizenship and be done with it. The idea of an independet Palastine made out of poor landlocked borders will lead to a continous welfare state like it is now with no chance of ever being a economically viable state on its own.They need Isreal and Isreal needs them its time they kissed and made up.

Originally posted by Eliad

 

Didn't it freeze the settlements in the west bank for almost a year a short while ago? Didn't it evacuate its settlements from the Gaza strip?

Yes, because there is nothing for the Israelis in the Gaza Strip. Why, if they evacuated Gaza Strip, why not do the same in the West Bank? Because they want Jerusalem. The Israeli leaders only dropped Gaza to give themselves SOME credibility in international opinion. But look at the whole picture. They drop the Gaza strip, but then go and put up a naval and land blockade around it. Doesn't really seem like they care to much about the Gaza Strip.

Originally posted by Eliad

 

What have the Palestinians done for peace? Agreed to stop shooting at Israeli civilians?

Well, considering Abbas has done a great deal to quell the unrest in the Palestinian territories, as opposed to the former leader Arafat. Abbas has not committed any hostile actions against Israeli civilians, yet Operation Cast Lead killed 1,000 Palestinian people.

Originally posted by Eliad

 

No, really, tell me, what have they done for peace?

Helped bring stability to the Palestinian territories. See above.

Originally posted by Eliad

 

No other country acts in this manner? *Every* other country in the world that has been put in the same situation as Israel has acted either the same way or worse- America in Iraq and Afghanistan, Turkey vs. the Kurds and Armenians, China and Tibet, Russia and Caucasus, The Serbians..
Every single nation.

Dude, the Russians and Chechens are fighting a full fledged war. Israel is not fighting a full fledged war with the Palestinians. Same goes for the Kurds in Turkey/Iraq/Iran.
Palestinians throw rocks to get their point across, Chechens and Kurds use MG's and RPG's to get theirs across. Seriously, you can't compare. But you CAN compare Israels actions against Palestinian stone throwers to that of Russian Spetznaz shooting at Chechen rebels in the streets.

Originally posted by Eliad

 

But don't think for a second that Israel is the only one to ever break sanctions in this region, or use banned weapons, or generally do wrong.

Just the very fact that Israel has nuclear weapons should be reason enough to nullify Israels statesmanship.

Originally posted by Eliad

 

And when the U.N was ignored by Arab nations in a way that hurt Israel, do you really think anyone gave a #?

Israel isn't even a member of the United Nations. They shouldn't be so dependent on the United Nations when they aren't even a member. The goal of the UN is world peace. Why isn't Israel a member if they are so much for "peace"?
Plus, the United States has vetoed practically every security council resolution against Israel.

reply to post by Magnum007


That's exactly my point, it goes both ways..

And I was referring to things that the Arab nations did in the past which were much more serious than what Hamas does today..

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


The people after WW2 literally had no homes to return to, made them much easier to relocate.

The settler's day of rage will be pitiful.. And even if they would all march down the streets, who cares, it's the right thing to do.

reply to post by BiGGz

because there is nothing for the Israelis in the Gaza Strip

Yup.

why not do the same in the West Bank? Because they want Jerusalem.

Yup. That, and some other reasons, but it's all just politics...

They drop the Gaza strip, but then go and put up a naval and land blockade around it. Doesn't really seem like they care to much about the Gaza Strip.

Well, they expected to get some peace and quiet out of it.. Tried to cease the momentum of Fatah laying down their arms..
But these were imposed only after Hamas kicked Fatah out...

Well, considering Abbas has done a great deal to quell the unrest in the Palestinian territories, as opposed to the former leader Arafat. Abbas has not committed any hostile actions against Israeli civilians, yet Operation Cast Lead killed 1,000 Palestinian people.

Yes, on Hamas' side, not on Abas' side. And that's because they've been firing rockets for 7 years.

Laying down your arms is a start, but it would take a lot more than that.

Palestinians throw rocks to get their point across, Chechens and Kurds use MG's and RPG's to get theirs across. Seriously, you can't compare.

They've got guns, and RPGs, and mortars, you know... It's not a full fledged war? You've clearly never been to Gaza. But it does seem that now a days things are less hectic than they used to, but both sides..

lol throw rocks to get their point across? Maybe in the West Bank, but those guys don't get shot..

Elliad,

I can understand where you are comming from.

Like you, I too support Jewish aspirations, but I support Palestinians' aspirations as well. These aspirations are not in conflict with one another, for they are the same aspirations held by ALL humans.

In the past, violence and discrimination had been used by both sides, loudly vocal and drowned out the many whom called for peaceful means to achieve statehood. They had their way. They had their chance.

BUT it had been 60 long years of violence! What had been achieved? NOTHING! but only more suffering for generations. Isnt it more than enough to wake up and realized that violence and discrimination is not going to save both nations, but only lead to future generations suffering more?

It's time to end the sufferings on both sides by both sides.

Today, only a remnant of those whom have bloodlust and powerlust left. They had died off, consumed by the fires of their own horrifying natures unleashed. They can be far more easier to deal with, but it needs support from both sides.

Even though landlocked, both nations are not without natural resources underground to generate wealth for both nations. Even without them, the highest and best resource is human capital. With an educated nation in an environment of peace, there is nothing that a creative mind cannot create out of nothing, as much of our advances in science and tech had proven.

We can achieve all these, but it has to begin with you and me, and through us, our families, relatives and friends that makes up society, today.

Originally posted by BiGGz
Israel isn't even a member of the United Nations

Yes they are, why post lies? They were admitted on 11-05-1949

reply to post by dereks


To my knowledge I don't think Israel signed the international waters treaty but I could be wrong

We could, and continuously do, discuss what is right and wrong involving Israel, and their treatment of Palestinians, their utter lack of compassion, and the constant threats they make.

Simple fact is they pretty much do what they want, and will continue to do so. Israel was founded with our backing and will. It is a fabricated people, culture. They live on the edge of destruction every day, it's always two minutes to midnight, and the economy and lifestyle is dedicated to the military industrial complex.

It is what it is, what it was intended to be, and will continue to be until the button is pressed.

reply to post by FrostForests


Unfortunately you are correct but in the eyes of the world Israel has lost any/all morality and ethics as a nation. The one thing that stood out from the rest was their target of young Palestinians for human organs and that included some activists from other nations killed by IDF whose bodies were found to be missing organs too. The list is long to what a couple of units of the IDF have done but to paint the intire Israeli population with the same brush is just so wrong. They too are human beings just like the rest of us.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101




That's exactly what I'm saying..